A380 Issues
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A380 Short body version?
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Rolls Royce Announces Delay Due To A380 Delays
See
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/5412378.stm
for latest on "knock-on" effects of Airbus announcement.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/5412378.stm
for latest on "knock-on" effects of Airbus announcement.
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I am neither a pilot nor an engineer. Which will no doubt be obvious by my question. Here goes.
Most speculation suggests that the main problem is the difficulty of fitting the wiring harnesses into the plane. I would assume (but is this a stupid assumption?) that the amount of wiring needed for the freighter versions will be much less than the passenger versions.
Would there not be some benefit for Airbus to use the next year to fill some of the freighter orders - and so enabling production lines for fuselage, wings, engines etc to keep moving. That also would get some cash in the bank on those sales. Meanwhile, they continue the redesign of the wiring and resume production on passenger versions in a year or so.
I know there must be some basic reason why my idea is daft, or they’d be doing it already. Are the models under construction too far down the line to be swapped to freighter versions or something basic like that?
Most speculation suggests that the main problem is the difficulty of fitting the wiring harnesses into the plane. I would assume (but is this a stupid assumption?) that the amount of wiring needed for the freighter versions will be much less than the passenger versions.
Would there not be some benefit for Airbus to use the next year to fill some of the freighter orders - and so enabling production lines for fuselage, wings, engines etc to keep moving. That also would get some cash in the bank on those sales. Meanwhile, they continue the redesign of the wiring and resume production on passenger versions in a year or so.
I know there must be some basic reason why my idea is daft, or they’d be doing it already. Are the models under construction too far down the line to be swapped to freighter versions or something basic like that?
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RR suspend Trent900 production
BBC reporting RR are suspending production of their Trent900 (destined for the A380) whilst saying "the exact implications are being assessed".
I can't remeber the last time I heard anything positive reported about the 380 program, these guys must dread opening the papers in the mrning.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5412378.stm
I can't remeber the last time I heard anything positive reported about the 380 program, these guys must dread opening the papers in the mrning.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5412378.stm
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That will account for all the AN124 activity at EMA there was 3 parked on the freight apron the other day, after they left another arrived and one more is in today, they are obviously shipping the completed engines out to the factory before the suspending of the line.
Last edited by Hawk; 7th Oct 2006 at 00:20. Reason: .
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Be interesting to see how P&W/GE (Engine Alliance) react - I think that EA had just about the majority of the orders, so potentially more to lose if the airframe production does not reach projected quantities.
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hey all
ELondonPax vbmenu_register("postmenu_2892336", true); i think you idea would be good, maybe you should work for airbus, lets js see what people reply to your comment, it seems as though there is less wiring in cargo crafts but i guess they want to solve the problemo first before worrying about their financial side, and start working on on the airlines orders for singapore and ek, which are not cargo.
regards,
Hamid_27
ELondonPax vbmenu_register("postmenu_2892336", true); i think you idea would be good, maybe you should work for airbus, lets js see what people reply to your comment, it seems as though there is less wiring in cargo crafts but i guess they want to solve the problemo first before worrying about their financial side, and start working on on the airlines orders for singapore and ek, which are not cargo.
regards,
Hamid_27
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That's dreadful news and I feel sorry for the RR team who have worked so hard on developing this fabulous engine.
Have a look at the Flightglobal website where they published the speech given by the Airbus CEO to staff on Tuesday. The transcript of the speech was leaked and was not meant for public consumption
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/10/04/Navigation/177/209674/Internet+bloggers+publish+entire+transcript+of+Airbus+CEO+Ch ristian+Streiff's+frank+speech+to.html
Have a look at the Flightglobal website where they published the speech given by the Airbus CEO to staff on Tuesday. The transcript of the speech was leaked and was not meant for public consumption
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/10/04/Navigation/177/209674/Internet+bloggers+publish+entire+transcript+of+Airbus+CEO+Ch ristian+Streiff's+frank+speech+to.html
but the production process has one, big flaw – one weak link in the chain: that of the design of the electrical harnesses installation in the forward and aft fuselage.
To be clear: This is the weak link in the manufacturing chain, this is the reason why ramping up the production is hampered.
To be clear: This is the weak link in the manufacturing chain, this is the reason why ramping up the production is hampered.
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The current state of play at Hamburg
1 MSN007 Cabin fit ready by ummmm...... (Pale Purple in first class by the way)
2. MSN005 idle....all wiring to be removed and aircraft completely rewired. Next year sometime.
3. MSN003 Thousands of hours of work still outstanding, no paperwork no planning, no hope.
4. 60 Electricians fired yesterday...surplus to requirement
60 more to go by Christmas
5. 1 Aircraft to be delivered next year...
1 MSN007 Cabin fit ready by ummmm...... (Pale Purple in first class by the way)
2. MSN005 idle....all wiring to be removed and aircraft completely rewired. Next year sometime.
3. MSN003 Thousands of hours of work still outstanding, no paperwork no planning, no hope.
4. 60 Electricians fired yesterday...surplus to requirement
60 more to go by Christmas5. 1 Aircraft to be delivered next year...
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A380Pax to A380F
The Freighter wing is completely different to the PAX wing (eg one common part number between variants in one of the major wing structural assemblies comprising well over 160 pieces) so it's not possible to do a conversion.
Airbus UK is miles ahead of the Europeans in the build programme (and in terms of management competence) but guess who will suffer most if the program stalls?
Airbus UK is miles ahead of the Europeans in the build programme (and in terms of management competence) but guess who will suffer most if the program stalls?
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Airbus chief quits?
Airbus Chief Quits
By TSC Staff
10/6/2006 1:37 PM EDT
Airbus CEO Christian Streiff quit Friday, the Associated Press reported.
The two chief executives of Airbus' parent company, the European Aeronautic Defence & Space group, accepted Streiff's resignation, the AP reported. The news comes just days after Airbus admitted that production of its A380 superjumbo jet would be delayed for a third time, slashing almost a billion dollars a year off operating profit for the next four years.
EADS co-CEOs Tom Enders and Louis Gallois have agreed that Streiff should leave the company, a person close to Airbus told AP, several days after he threatened to resign amid a dispute over the transparency of financial and other reporting by Airbus to EADS. Airbus has been under the gun ever since rival Boeing gained widespread airline acceptance for its more economical 787 jetliner.
German weekly WirtschaftsWoche reported earlier that Streiff had offered his resignation in a letter to Gallois.
"We deny categorically that Mr. Streiff is to leave Airbus," spokeswoman Anne de Crozals said, AP reported.
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/news...&cm_ite=NA
By TSC Staff
10/6/2006 1:37 PM EDT
Airbus CEO Christian Streiff quit Friday, the Associated Press reported.
The two chief executives of Airbus' parent company, the European Aeronautic Defence & Space group, accepted Streiff's resignation, the AP reported. The news comes just days after Airbus admitted that production of its A380 superjumbo jet would be delayed for a third time, slashing almost a billion dollars a year off operating profit for the next four years.
EADS co-CEOs Tom Enders and Louis Gallois have agreed that Streiff should leave the company, a person close to Airbus told AP, several days after he threatened to resign amid a dispute over the transparency of financial and other reporting by Airbus to EADS. Airbus has been under the gun ever since rival Boeing gained widespread airline acceptance for its more economical 787 jetliner.
German weekly WirtschaftsWoche reported earlier that Streiff had offered his resignation in a letter to Gallois.
"We deny categorically that Mr. Streiff is to leave Airbus," spokeswoman Anne de Crozals said, AP reported.
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/news...&cm_ite=NA
Moderatrix
Test Pilot for Annick Goutal
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See also discussion here
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...16#post2892616
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...16#post2892616
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MODS, if any of you may read this post, I am surprised at your choice to move this thread into Airlines, Airports, Routes as the topic is none of the aforementioned.
RR decision to suspend work on the Trent900 may ultimately mean nothing, however by the same token it may well be seen as a watershed event in the A380 (and ultimately Airbus) business. I would have thought that this thread could have attracted some interesting and informed comment, were it given the chance in the appropriate forum.
Way to go guys.
RR decision to suspend work on the Trent900 may ultimately mean nothing, however by the same token it may well be seen as a watershed event in the A380 (and ultimately Airbus) business. I would have thought that this thread could have attracted some interesting and informed comment, were it given the chance in the appropriate forum.
Way to go guys.
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Randy Baseler's kind take on the A380 situation.
From Randy's Blog - Pres. Marketing, BCA:
Staying focused
The production issues in the news concerning the A380 program have led to the usual questions for me and many others here at Boeing. As can be expected, in the media there's some intense interest in the question of "what does this mean for Boeing?"
Well, I've said this before, in response to reporters' questions, and in many forums around the world: It doesn't mean a whole lot. As I see it right now, there is no direct benefit for us coming from the Airbus announcements on the A380, particularly in the near-term. We have a very sound backlog and full production lines - and we're quite pleased already with the response from the market to our 747-8.
The very large airplane segment, by the way, is a very small piece of the bigger whole. Which is why we didn't pursue a direct competitor to the A380 in the first place.
At the most fundamental level, what truly benefits Boeing is strong competition in a healthy commercial airplanes industry. Let's remember, Boeing and Airbus share many of the same customers and suppliers in a relatively small industrial "ecosystem." Our industry, the traveling public, and the global economy all do better when that ecosystem contains healthy, competitive companies creating value day in and day out.
Yes, it's a tough time right now for EADS/Airbus. But they'll get through it. And we expect them to be strong competitors for a very long time.
As for BCA, we are staying focused on the needs of our customers, on the execution of our business plan, and on delivering on our promises.
The production issues in the news concerning the A380 program have led to the usual questions for me and many others here at Boeing. As can be expected, in the media there's some intense interest in the question of "what does this mean for Boeing?"
Well, I've said this before, in response to reporters' questions, and in many forums around the world: It doesn't mean a whole lot. As I see it right now, there is no direct benefit for us coming from the Airbus announcements on the A380, particularly in the near-term. We have a very sound backlog and full production lines - and we're quite pleased already with the response from the market to our 747-8.
The very large airplane segment, by the way, is a very small piece of the bigger whole. Which is why we didn't pursue a direct competitor to the A380 in the first place.
At the most fundamental level, what truly benefits Boeing is strong competition in a healthy commercial airplanes industry. Let's remember, Boeing and Airbus share many of the same customers and suppliers in a relatively small industrial "ecosystem." Our industry, the traveling public, and the global economy all do better when that ecosystem contains healthy, competitive companies creating value day in and day out.
Yes, it's a tough time right now for EADS/Airbus. But they'll get through it. And we expect them to be strong competitors for a very long time.
As for BCA, we are staying focused on the needs of our customers, on the execution of our business plan, and on delivering on our promises.
Mae West remarked "Too much of a good thing is wonderful!". The Airbus A380 is a little too much of a good thing, and for Airbus it is going to prove anything but wonderful.
If they are not very careful, it could break the company. Even if it doesn't, any further delays may see it become the biggest aviation white elephant since Howard Hughes' "Spruce Goose". American steelmaker Andrew Carnegie also remarked "Pioneering don't pay!". Airbus are discovering the truth of his words in a very painful manner.
If they are not very careful, it could break the company. Even if it doesn't, any further delays may see it become the biggest aviation white elephant since Howard Hughes' "Spruce Goose". American steelmaker Andrew Carnegie also remarked "Pioneering don't pay!". Airbus are discovering the truth of his words in a very painful manner.
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Airbus main problem here seems to be that it was overambitious i what it promised to Airlines. It then had to redesign the airframe and compnents numerous times. The problem with the A380 was not that it was too large, but that it offered too much inniovation and options to airlines.
I think airbus got stung by the advanced technology and rushed development programme. Even by Airbus standards the programme was ambitious and lacked redundancy. Things went wrong, there was not enough time to fix them so deliveries got pushed back. Its not that the A380 is a bad aircraft, its that the A380 team are bad palnners. They just didnt see that because it works in the lab, doesnt mean it will work on teh ramp. Unlucky boys.
Boeing, I note, is carefull not to throw rocks...the 787 could just as easily have these problems....Im not saying it will, but it could. If I remember the 747-400 had a lot of preductin problems, and delays. Some also had to have extra strengthning put in on the SUD floor, if Im correct. It can happen.
Airbus should have promised less(or been "more sincere" as one CEO put it(Singapore, I think).
I think airbus got stung by the advanced technology and rushed development programme. Even by Airbus standards the programme was ambitious and lacked redundancy. Things went wrong, there was not enough time to fix them so deliveries got pushed back. Its not that the A380 is a bad aircraft, its that the A380 team are bad palnners. They just didnt see that because it works in the lab, doesnt mean it will work on teh ramp. Unlucky boys.
Boeing, I note, is carefull not to throw rocks...the 787 could just as easily have these problems....Im not saying it will, but it could. If I remember the 747-400 had a lot of preductin problems, and delays. Some also had to have extra strengthning put in on the SUD floor, if Im correct. It can happen.
Airbus should have promised less(or been "more sincere" as one CEO put it(Singapore, I think).
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Doesn't sound like he's quit - yet. Both Der Spiegel (German, usually reliable) and FT (via MSNBC, see link) report rumours and that he is 'threatening' to do so. Wouldn't surprise me too much, though.....
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Lateral Moment?
Just wondering? In a previous thread I read that the A-380 has an issue with the U/C cracking.
I have only ever seen the machine on the television, to my eyes the U/C track looks very small in comparisim to the overall wing span.
Hence to me it looks like a bit out of kilter?
Just my thoughts, maybe some one more enlightened could elaborate.
Chr's
H/snort.
I have only ever seen the machine on the television, to my eyes the U/C track looks very small in comparisim to the overall wing span.
Hence to me it looks like a bit out of kilter?
Just my thoughts, maybe some one more enlightened could elaborate.
Chr's
H/snort.
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There's also this article (from yesterday) where EADS co-CEO Tom Enders questions the viability of the A350 XWB project due to ongoing A380 problems. The article must have been written right before Streiff left Airbus.
http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=6680
http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=6680