CORK - 3
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cork
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It's not looking to bright for the future in Cork Airport, CSA I thought would pull out when Aer Lingus started plans to operate that route, no proper airline can compete with a low-cost airline unless oyur service was extremely good. But then again I thought Air France service is very good and they compete with Aer Lingus out of Dublin.
But who ever said that Malev were going to pull the plug? Apparently the loads are very good and a friend travelled over a month or two ago and said the flight was full.
But who ever said that Malev were going to pull the plug? Apparently the loads are very good and a friend travelled over a month or two ago and said the flight was full.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cork
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"But who ever said that Malev were going to pull the plug? Apparently the loads are very good and a friend travelled over a month or two ago and said the flight was full."
But sure the CSA was full as well, even some mornings it was over booked!
This is bring back memories of when Cityflyer pulled the LGW route!
I know Aer Lingus are going to operate the route but its a shame to be loosing a REAL airline.
But sure the CSA was full as well, even some mornings it was over booked!
This is bring back memories of when Cityflyer pulled the LGW route!
I know Aer Lingus are going to operate the route but its a shame to be loosing a REAL airline.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Cork Ireland
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Yes Malev are doing well, and with a lot of transfer traffic. CSA are also doing very well, again with substantial interline passengers. It had to have been one of the more successful new routes out of Cork when CSA launched it. As for the reasons for their impending withdrawal, its not yet clear what the reason is. Whether its the impending arrival of EI on the route, or its their mounting losses in the overall group - who knows. The rumours surrounding the withdrawal indicate that its not a done deal ..... YET.
So as there would still seem to be light at the end of the tunnel, the CAA (if any one of them actually has the initiative or B**LS) should do their unmost to retain CSA in Cork. Its a completely different ballgame loosing a full service flag carrier like CSA than a LoCo.
Come on CAA, hope you have someone reading these forums and you might realise you have to do something.
So as there would still seem to be light at the end of the tunnel, the CAA (if any one of them actually has the initiative or B**LS) should do their unmost to retain CSA in Cork. Its a completely different ballgame loosing a full service flag carrier like CSA than a LoCo.
Come on CAA, hope you have someone reading these forums and you might realise you have to do something.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Prague
Although Cork is a slightly different market to Birmingham the same thing
has already happened here.
The CSA load factor hovered between 70 & 90% depending on the time of
year and then along came BMI Baby and doubled the monthly traffic
between the two cities.
CSA stuck it out for a bit but and load factor did not go down by that
much as CSA were taking business and connecting pax and Baby...well
lets say, they had a different type of pax in general of course
.
One assumes that it was yield that took the nosedive and CSA were
soo history. It appears that they simply cannot compete with the LCC's
on smaller markets.
Edinburgh has retained its CSA service but am I correct in thinking
GSM are about to restart, which could lead to trouble for them?
I think Glasgow had a service as well and that went at similar time
to BHX.
Manchester is a bigger market and they have retained their CSA
but I would not be surprised if Cork is not the last.
BHX is now almost under-served now on Prague with one evening
Baby averaging over 115 per flight. At least it is probably making
some money for Baby but still it was nice to have a choice while
it lasted.
Pete
has already happened here.
The CSA load factor hovered between 70 & 90% depending on the time of
year and then along came BMI Baby and doubled the monthly traffic
between the two cities.
CSA stuck it out for a bit but and load factor did not go down by that
much as CSA were taking business and connecting pax and Baby...well
lets say, they had a different type of pax in general of course
.One assumes that it was yield that took the nosedive and CSA were
soo history. It appears that they simply cannot compete with the LCC's
on smaller markets.
Edinburgh has retained its CSA service but am I correct in thinking
GSM are about to restart, which could lead to trouble for them?
I think Glasgow had a service as well and that went at similar time
to BHX.
Manchester is a bigger market and they have retained their CSA
but I would not be surprised if Cork is not the last.
BHX is now almost under-served now on Prague with one evening
Baby averaging over 115 per flight. At least it is probably making
some money for Baby but still it was nice to have a choice while
it lasted.
Pete
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slightly off topic (!!) but you guys are experts...
why can't u use seven-four-sevens on short routes ?
i know they're designed for transcontinental
but why not fit them with efficient engines for short routes like LHR-ORK
- are they simply NOT able for lots of cycles ??
- could they not be toughened to cope or is just not being able to change the laws of physics, jim?
ie why use A321s when you could fill a bigger plane
...apols for daft question but....
about twenty years ago, tony ryan was floating the idea of an "airbridge"
linking ireland to uk and continent....ie...lots of big planes toing and froing
never happened in that guise but i guess that's what led to ryanair.
i thought idea was you could rock up, jump on, fly off...cheap...with cargo...liek those old car-carrying things they used to run from dover to deauville in the 50s (bristols??)......
why can't u use seven-four-sevens on short routes ?
i know they're designed for transcontinental
but why not fit them with efficient engines for short routes like LHR-ORK
- are they simply NOT able for lots of cycles ??
- could they not be toughened to cope or is just not being able to change the laws of physics, jim?
ie why use A321s when you could fill a bigger plane
...apols for daft question but....
about twenty years ago, tony ryan was floating the idea of an "airbridge"
linking ireland to uk and continent....ie...lots of big planes toing and froing
never happened in that guise but i guess that's what led to ryanair.
i thought idea was you could rock up, jump on, fly off...cheap...with cargo...liek those old car-carrying things they used to run from dover to deauville in the 50s (bristols??)......
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Just going back to the CSA news/rumour. While the Aer Lingus flights to Prague will have had an impact, they will have had very little time so far to assess the impact on their yields. I suspect that the route has been fairly marginal and that EI's decision to fly to Prague made the decision for them.
When the route started, it was Cork's only route to Central/Eatern Europe and as well as people going to Prague, it was popular with connecting passengers going to Poland or elsewhere. With the new flights to Warsaw, Budapest and Katowice (with more to some), there will have been a reduction in demand for the service and it may have been this general trend that is encouraging them to drop it.
If there's a positive side, it should mean that a lot of passengers for destinations not served directly will use Budapest to connect, which could shore that route up a bit. That said, CSA's presence will have encouraged Malev to launch flights and I hope that their departure doesn't cause a rethink.
When the route started, it was Cork's only route to Central/Eatern Europe and as well as people going to Prague, it was popular with connecting passengers going to Poland or elsewhere. With the new flights to Warsaw, Budapest and Katowice (with more to some), there will have been a reduction in demand for the service and it may have been this general trend that is encouraging them to drop it.
If there's a positive side, it should mean that a lot of passengers for destinations not served directly will use Budapest to connect, which could shore that route up a bit. That said, CSA's presence will have encouraged Malev to launch flights and I hope that their departure doesn't cause a rethink.
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CSA
The Poles were great users of the service in 2004/5 and of course EI flts to TXL and FCO would also have had an impact on connecting pax.
Also Malev's service to Budapest would have diluted their traffic to The Balkan countries.
Load factors were generally good but again the great unknown was the Yield.
It is reported that Senior Management from Cork are to travel to Prague this week to discuss the future of the service.
CSA's presence there did take Cork to a new level and may have prompted EI to look at more direct services to the Continent.
Also Malev's service to Budapest would have diluted their traffic to The Balkan countries.
Load factors were generally good but again the great unknown was the Yield.
It is reported that Senior Management from Cork are to travel to Prague this week to discuss the future of the service.
CSA's presence there did take Cork to a new level and may have prompted EI to look at more direct services to the Continent.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Yes I too heard that top CAA officials are travelling to CSA in Prague this week, and from what I have heard they are going there on the basis "Keep them in Cork no matter what". Hope it will go well and the result is positive.
If only they would do the same with Easyjet.
If only they would do the same with Easyjet.
Rebel PPRuNer
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lm05 - check out the 747SR they used to use in Japan. Bet you can't turn one in 25 minutes though. EI 747-148s used to do EIDW-EINN both ways (100 miles I think?) in the bad old days...
Join Date: Aug 2000
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In my absense due to family illness it sure looks like Cork is taking some blows over the last week or so - let us hope there is not any more bad news now for a while. One of my colleagues is a Czeck lady and she confirms the ongoing speculation in Prague that CSA are considering pulling out from Cork. Obviously, she is very concerned about the situation and hopes the something may be retrieved and it is good that the CAA are waking up to the gravity of the matter. Losing easyJet is bad but to lose a 2nd major operator like CSA that has brought nothing but good to Cork must be a near doomsday scenario to contemplate for the powers that be in Cork.
It has come to my attention that the likes of Sean & Mary Citizen in Cork are at last beginning to talk about what state our great new airport is in at the moment and in my experience the public are asking questions now without any prompting which is new. I feel this is telling in itself and that the airport is being found out as over the last year or so there was a lot of ducking going on with little contact by Cork with her client airlines and perhaps the airport is now paying for this kind of devil may care attitude?
Sending out the troops to Prague may be a gesture too late just to be seen to be doing something in a sense of panic but I do wish Cork well because losing a quality operation from the middle of Europe like CSA brings the future of the airport into question as to what kind of future airline they may hope to attract to Cork.
I have also heard a rumor that EI are delighted that CSA may be pulling out so will it be Malev on the block come next autumn? God forbid. If CSA are out of the picture it is impossible to see EI at near a 5 or 6 a week capacity to Prague in the future as it looks like there will be so much capacity to central Europe with flights to Prague, Wroclaw, Katowice, Krakow, Warsaw, Berlin and Budapest. It is hard to seem them all survive at much more than 2 or 3 flights a week at the very most, if that? However, in the meantime there is every chance for Malev to put up their name in lights and they may pick up some more interlining traffic which would be good all round for them and for Cork.
There is also some news from DHL. They are downsizing from the 757 to the venerable Lockheed Electra from September! A welcome return by an old friend to Cork!
Was in the upstairs restaurant last week for the first time. Very high prices and poor service by some of the newer staff. There were a lot of complaints about the restaurant too on 96FM local radio last week but missed all of that coverage. Like in the old terminal there may be issues arising with blocked drains. Not a great situation to be in for a brand new terminal!
It has come to my attention that the likes of Sean & Mary Citizen in Cork are at last beginning to talk about what state our great new airport is in at the moment and in my experience the public are asking questions now without any prompting which is new. I feel this is telling in itself and that the airport is being found out as over the last year or so there was a lot of ducking going on with little contact by Cork with her client airlines and perhaps the airport is now paying for this kind of devil may care attitude?
Sending out the troops to Prague may be a gesture too late just to be seen to be doing something in a sense of panic but I do wish Cork well because losing a quality operation from the middle of Europe like CSA brings the future of the airport into question as to what kind of future airline they may hope to attract to Cork.
I have also heard a rumor that EI are delighted that CSA may be pulling out so will it be Malev on the block come next autumn? God forbid. If CSA are out of the picture it is impossible to see EI at near a 5 or 6 a week capacity to Prague in the future as it looks like there will be so much capacity to central Europe with flights to Prague, Wroclaw, Katowice, Krakow, Warsaw, Berlin and Budapest. It is hard to seem them all survive at much more than 2 or 3 flights a week at the very most, if that? However, in the meantime there is every chance for Malev to put up their name in lights and they may pick up some more interlining traffic which would be good all round for them and for Cork.
There is also some news from DHL. They are downsizing from the 757 to the venerable Lockheed Electra from September! A welcome return by an old friend to Cork!
Was in the upstairs restaurant last week for the first time. Very high prices and poor service by some of the newer staff. There were a lot of complaints about the restaurant too on 96FM local radio last week but missed all of that coverage. Like in the old terminal there may be issues arising with blocked drains. Not a great situation to be in for a brand new terminal!
Join Date: Apr 2005
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it seems to me that the idea to replace old with new at ORK hasn't worked as well as they thought it would.. how many carriers is that this year gone?? at this rate they will be moving back into the old terminal and renting the new one instead of the other way round! what exactly is the brief of the new marketing team? it certainly isn't to create traffic.. and has anybody heard the new adverts??! don't bother catching your flight, sit around and get tanked up in the bar instead! 
what bright spark thought that one up!!
SNN wont be long going after the lost business at ORK, and with far superior Route Support Schemes they are certainly in with a chance.
what bright spark thought that one up!! SNN wont be long going after the lost business at ORK, and with far superior Route Support Schemes they are certainly in with a chance.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Riverrock
I assume you are from Shannon by the way you put down Cork and put Shannon up. Cork is busier than Shannon in movements (which is how you record how busy an airport is) and this year will probably surpass shannon in passenger figures.
Passenger figures continue to grow at Cork, unlike shannon when one year, there might be 2.4.million and the next 2.1million.
Apologies if you are not from the Shannon Region.
I assume you are from Shannon by the way you put down Cork and put Shannon up. Cork is busier than Shannon in movements (which is how you record how busy an airport is) and this year will probably surpass shannon in passenger figures.
Passenger figures continue to grow at Cork, unlike shannon when one year, there might be 2.4.million and the next 2.1million.
Apologies if you are not from the Shannon Region.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Well Fanatic Riverrock is probably right lets face it the add is crap, every month now an airline drops out, we're in great need of airlines!!!
And what's more today DHL have announced that they are going to downgrade there a/c type to a Lockheed Electra. I mean that's so old it's not even funny, I can see them changing that in a few years anyway.
And what's more today DHL have announced that they are going to downgrade there a/c type to a Lockheed Electra. I mean that's so old it's not even funny, I can see them changing that in a few years anyway.
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Ok, the ad is crap but the advertisments on the Bill boards are good. It would be nice to see more airlines, but cork can cope. Like the likes of Aer Arann and Shamrock adding routes all the time. Wizz and centralwings.
News from my friends dad who is an airport official said that the Malev management team told the CAA that they are going to keep the service until at least 2008, then they will see if they will continue.
Oh yeah and the downgrading to a lockheed electra, whats the point in having a 757 when you can barely fill a LE? Thats why they got rid of it. It doesn't make a difference to Cork, same amount of pakages being carried by DHL.
Sorry riverrock, but I don't like when people put EICK down.
News from my friends dad who is an airport official said that the Malev management team told the CAA that they are going to keep the service until at least 2008, then they will see if they will continue.
Oh yeah and the downgrading to a lockheed electra, whats the point in having a 757 when you can barely fill a LE? Thats why they got rid of it. It doesn't make a difference to Cork, same amount of pakages being carried by DHL.
Sorry riverrock, but I don't like when people put EICK down.
Last edited by fanatic1; 29th Aug 2006 at 21:39. Reason: forgot something (void)
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Well yesterday night a friend mum works for DHL and I asked her about why are they downgrading? and her reply was....
"DHL are downgrading becasue we just lost a major contract to another cargo airline."
So they could fill the B757 but not anymore. So all we're going to have on the ramp is some small freighters. Until Bluebird comes and goes in a half an hour.
"DHL are downgrading becasue we just lost a major contract to another cargo airline."
So they could fill the B757 but not anymore. So all we're going to have on the ramp is some small freighters. Until Bluebird comes and goes in a half an hour.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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CSA mightent leave!
News from an airport official on cork-spotters says that CSA may do a turnaround flight instead of an overnighter.
So they will continue their Cork-Prague route. (Hopefully)
So they will continue their Cork-Prague route. (Hopefully)
Last edited by fanatic1; 30th Aug 2006 at 13:45. Reason: to remove name
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fanatic1
It would save a lot on costs, but it would reduce interlining opportunities, which could be their big advantage against EI.
BTW Suggest you remove the name you used in the post.
It would save a lot on costs, but it would reduce interlining opportunities, which could be their big advantage against EI.
BTW Suggest you remove the name you used in the post.
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Must agree with 840 on the above that CSA would lose out too much on the interlining business if the flight no longer overnights at Cork. The CAA might as well pay a little towards the crew's hotel accommodation especially when you consider the kind of uniquely generous incentives awared by Shannon to Ryanair?
It would be better for CSA to send over an ATR-72-500 to Cork in the evening for an overnight rather than turning around a 737 in the middle of the day. They need at all costs to keep the one advantage they have with the interlining traffic.
Who knows, this whole experience may even be postive for Cork if it jolts the CAA into life to be more agressive in keeping the business they have all ready?
It would be better for CSA to send over an ATR-72-500 to Cork in the evening for an overnight rather than turning around a 737 in the middle of the day. They need at all costs to keep the one advantage they have with the interlining traffic.
Who knows, this whole experience may even be postive for Cork if it jolts the CAA into life to be more agressive in keeping the business they have all ready?
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ATR on Prague
An ATR wouldn't stand a chance against an EI320. I hope I'm wrong but its going to take some persuasion to get CSA to reverse this decision if it has been taken at the highest level.
We might be have the best hurlers in the Country but we're only a dot on the map in the CSA headquarters.
Best of luck to the marketing team on Friday!
We might be have the best hurlers in the Country but we're only a dot on the map in the CSA headquarters.
Best of luck to the marketing team on Friday!