BRISTOL - 2
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BRS has gone through the many changes that CWL hasnt seen yet. The Terminal is in a bit of a mess at the moment, and yes the management dont seem to do things in the most simple or convenient of ways, but things are being done.
You wont see a new terminal arrive one morning on the runway and park up!
I think BRS has attracted the American market, and CWL has v strong Canadian links. BRS has a better domestic market (Easyjet were always going to perform better than Baby at CWL), CWL has a better holiday market.
I've read reports recently that state as much as 65% of Welsh travellers use eastern airport, bearing in mind that also includes North Wales (LPL, MAN etc)
If the airlines, and to an extent the airport itself, were committed enough then any airport can make realistic routes work.
So one airline pulls out and its a crap airport??
Eastern - BRU -this route has worked, and will work for other airlines. NCL is doing great.
Air Wales - MANAGEMENT
Excel - there's more to the 'low loads' excuse that they've given
MyTravel - Are looking into expanding again at CWL
Zoom - going from strength to strength
Aer Arann - As above
Again BRS and CWL attract different markets, CWL may not have a sparkling new terminal, BRS may not have a suitably long runway. Who Cares!
You wont see a new terminal arrive one morning on the runway and park up!
I think BRS has attracted the American market, and CWL has v strong Canadian links. BRS has a better domestic market (Easyjet were always going to perform better than Baby at CWL), CWL has a better holiday market.
I've read reports recently that state as much as 65% of Welsh travellers use eastern airport, bearing in mind that also includes North Wales (LPL, MAN etc)
If the airlines, and to an extent the airport itself, were committed enough then any airport can make realistic routes work.
Yes, there is such a demand for routes out of Cwl, that every time we read a press release about new schedules and see photos in the press the airline concerned has announced they are pulling out before the photos are even dry
Eastern - BRU -this route has worked, and will work for other airlines. NCL is doing great.
Air Wales - MANAGEMENT
Excel - there's more to the 'low loads' excuse that they've given
MyTravel - Are looking into expanding again at CWL
Zoom - going from strength to strength
Aer Arann - As above
Again BRS and CWL attract different markets, CWL may not have a sparkling new terminal, BRS may not have a suitably long runway. Who Cares!
Brunel to Concorde
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virtute et Industria, et Sumorsaete Ealle
Posts: 2,283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Caaardiff
I agree with much of what you say but am surprised that you think CWL has the bigger holiday market.
In 2005 BRS had over 1.3 million terminal charter pax whilst CWL had 819,000.
In July this year (latest figures available) BRS carried 177,000 charter pax and CWL 136,000.
Furthermore, at the height of summer 2006 BRS had around 120 weekly charter flights and 38 charter destinations. The CWL figures were around 100 and 35 (I have included the Zoom flights/destinations here as well as the Thomsonfly which seems a mixed charter/schedule operation).
In winter the difference is more marked. Last winter at the busiest time BRS had 51 weekly charter flights (including 16 weekly ski flights to 12 separate ski destinations) whilst CWL had 12, including 3 ski destinations.
Having said this, there is evidence that CWL is closing the gap on BRS in the summer charter market (in 2005 CWL had around 75 weekly charter flights at the busiest time compared to 100 this year), and Thomsonfly’s initiative will mean more charter flights this winter than last.
It may be that you are including the leakage figures from CWL’s catchment in your calculation (put at ‘close to 50%’ in the airport’s draft master plan, but of course this is all travellers, not just holiday travellers).
I sense we both agree that both airports are first class facilities for their immediate catchments but that some cross-mixing of travellers from both sides of the Severn is inevitable and, to some extent desirable, in that it encourages commercial competition.
I agree with much of what you say but am surprised that you think CWL has the bigger holiday market.
In 2005 BRS had over 1.3 million terminal charter pax whilst CWL had 819,000.
In July this year (latest figures available) BRS carried 177,000 charter pax and CWL 136,000.
Furthermore, at the height of summer 2006 BRS had around 120 weekly charter flights and 38 charter destinations. The CWL figures were around 100 and 35 (I have included the Zoom flights/destinations here as well as the Thomsonfly which seems a mixed charter/schedule operation).
In winter the difference is more marked. Last winter at the busiest time BRS had 51 weekly charter flights (including 16 weekly ski flights to 12 separate ski destinations) whilst CWL had 12, including 3 ski destinations.
Having said this, there is evidence that CWL is closing the gap on BRS in the summer charter market (in 2005 CWL had around 75 weekly charter flights at the busiest time compared to 100 this year), and Thomsonfly’s initiative will mean more charter flights this winter than last.
It may be that you are including the leakage figures from CWL’s catchment in your calculation (put at ‘close to 50%’ in the airport’s draft master plan, but of course this is all travellers, not just holiday travellers).
I sense we both agree that both airports are first class facilities for their immediate catchments but that some cross-mixing of travellers from both sides of the Severn is inevitable and, to some extent desirable, in that it encourages commercial competition.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BRISTOL
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
oooh ooooh me me I care 
Crikey people and I thought I was king of the ranters, looks as if i'll have to share my throne with 'Standard Noise'.
If you ask me the only thing that shows which airport is operating better must surely be pax figs,these in turn lead back to management.
If CWL had the same management as BRS then we might be looking at it all being the other way round, fact is BRS has superior management and marketing teams not just over CWL but other airports, both in infrastructure, advertising and attracting airlines/routes etc.... This leads on to more airlines signing deals with the airport who puts the best pitch to them, for example CO nearly went to CWL from what i've been told, but BRS put a better business case across, FCA long haul nearly went to STN but ended up in BRS, theres a definate reason why folks and I believe it down to the guys who sit up stairs in the old terminal making deals, well done Tony Halwood/Shaun Brown and Co I say.
Heres a little sum that shows what i mean,
More airlines + more routes = more pax + more return pax = more money = more facilities = more success = higher pax figs than CWL
Crikey people and I thought I was king of the ranters, looks as if i'll have to share my throne with 'Standard Noise'.If you ask me the only thing that shows which airport is operating better must surely be pax figs,these in turn lead back to management.
If CWL had the same management as BRS then we might be looking at it all being the other way round, fact is BRS has superior management and marketing teams not just over CWL but other airports, both in infrastructure, advertising and attracting airlines/routes etc.... This leads on to more airlines signing deals with the airport who puts the best pitch to them, for example CO nearly went to CWL from what i've been told, but BRS put a better business case across, FCA long haul nearly went to STN but ended up in BRS, theres a definate reason why folks and I believe it down to the guys who sit up stairs in the old terminal making deals, well done Tony Halwood/Shaun Brown and Co I say.
Heres a little sum that shows what i mean,
More airlines + more routes = more pax + more return pax = more money = more facilities = more success = higher pax figs than CWL
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would be a shame to have yet another slanging match between the two airports. Bristol are currently winning hands down on destinations and prices and it would quite frankly take such a radical change at Cardiff to catch up. ( but just for ATCO1987s sake it wasn't that long ago that Cardiff was ahead in the airport stakes so things can and do change)
I do though hope we can improve our destinations and service.
The Terminal should be knocked down and rebuilt but with all the companies money being invested in Luton thats as likely to happen as Air Wales starting back up.
Standard Noise why oh why should you be caught up in the debacle that hit the front pages in the local news, that is just so flipping typical
, sorry you had problems we didn't see you though pop up and see us for a coffee, in our brand new kitchen, rest room, briefing room, updated VCR and Radar room 
I could have made you a lovely Café Latte and it wouldn't have cost you a thing.
I do though hope we can improve our destinations and service.
The Terminal should be knocked down and rebuilt but with all the companies money being invested in Luton thats as likely to happen as Air Wales starting back up.
Standard Noise why oh why should you be caught up in the debacle that hit the front pages in the local news, that is just so flipping typical
, sorry you had problems we didn't see you though pop up and see us for a coffee, in our brand new kitchen, rest room, briefing room, updated VCR and Radar room I could have made you a lovely Café Latte and it wouldn't have cost you a thing.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Crawley
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys its not a competition! So what if BRS gets more PAX every year. In all honesty how much does it matter to anyone of us? Being Welsh I would love to see CWL grow faster than what it does but i'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it! Or shall I start a LGW v BRS thread, we have more pax than BRS oh wait.... I HAVE A LIFE! 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BRISTOL
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ha ha, damn i love this forum when it gets to the BRS v CWL thing, quick over to the CWL thread to do it on there too (not), I love it how it's gone from Standards problem journey with TOM, to which airport is better - HA HA HA HA BRILLIANT! Were all legends! BRS is better though
Guest
Posts: n/a
Any rumuors on the easyjet contract yet? Does anyone know weather servisair have got it? or has it gone to another handling agent. We still dont know and it expires end of this month, on another note its funny how soon as routes and rumuors die down on this forum it turns to BRS vs CWL. But you never here a word about EXT.....hehe....Any news on any new routes in the pipeline?
StandupfortheUlstermen
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of Wurzelsetshire
Age: 53
Posts: 1,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well flower, I would have come up for a wee natter, but I was waiting for some free nosh since we were being delayed by about four and a half hours. Still, shouldn't expect too much from the Krauts, eh? Had to make do with several Nigerian lagers and a pot of Ladyboy nuts at that thing CWL management call a 'bar'. Anyhoo, if I'd have come upstairs, you wouldn't have got any peace. And I was waiting for a Thommo/Servisair type rep to show their ugly mugs in the deps lounge (yes, I called switchboard twice to request one be sent up), but they didn't appear, just like my luggage! Well, at least it was consistent.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Near sheep!
Posts: 915
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cardiff or Bristol, hmmm would rather see Brs get all the glory now that I live here!! 
As for my Toronto remark.....read it again guys! You can reach Canada easily from BRS, certainly in a 75', and probably a 76'.
BUT, my point was to get the range you would have to reduce the seating to a typical scheduled/higher cost seating config', which isnt going to compete with Zoom's low cost/ high capacity config'.
Now, where's my pot noodle........
!!
All the best.
As for my Toronto remark.....read it again guys! You can reach Canada easily from BRS, certainly in a 75', and probably a 76'.
BUT, my point was to get the range you would have to reduce the seating to a typical scheduled/higher cost seating config', which isnt going to compete with Zoom's low cost/ high capacity config'.
Now, where's my pot noodle........
!!All the best.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BRISTOL
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Getting off the CWL bashing now, does anybody know how the BA - TFS loads are looking? Brave step by BA to launch that route from BRS when sooo many charters do it (uk and spanish) so hope it holds it's own, can't see it massively affecting the likes of MYT/TOM/FCA though, great to see a larger BA jet in BRS instead of the same old Embrarers. 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BRISTOL
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just been haveing a play on the FC website, seems now the SFB/POP in winter ops via MAN for refuel only, in summer the site is now saying SFB/POP double drop with MAN, VRA now double drop with EMA, As far as i'm told by travel agent friends the BRS-SFB/POP are selling well, apparently 20-25% sold for next summer with mass booking period still to come in Jan/Feb, wonder if this is more to do with extra capacity needed from MAN in the summer, Not sure what the split between the airports is, however I imagine that BRS will have the Lions share as they've been on sale longer, we'll see i guess, VRA makes good business sense though, not selling as well as the SFB/POP, shame the EMA-CUN can't be shared with BRS too.
However does bring back the question of Direct or not? back in to the equation, It's really dependent on where the aircraft is to be cleaned BRS or MAN
Hopefully it will be cleaned in BRS therefore meaning minimum distruption to BRS pax
However does bring back the question of Direct or not? back in to the equation, It's really dependent on where the aircraft is to be cleaned BRS or MAN
Hopefully it will be cleaned in BRS therefore meaning minimum distruption to BRS pax
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Liverpool
Age: 47
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Developments at CWL
Caaardiff............ Having worked for Servisair at CWL many moons ago I would be very interested to see any pictures or information on the developments going on at CWL. I don't get down there very often and miss the place a lot. Are there any pictures on the web or could you PM me with any??Tornadohotas
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: bristol
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fog at bristol
Flew back to Bristol yesterday on board a First Choice A321 from Crete, fog at the airport,the wind blowing from the East and no cat3 on runway 09 meant we coudn't land.The pilots decided to hold for half an hour in the hope that things would improve,they didn't so we diverted to Cardiff.After refuelling and an hour or so on the ground we took off again for Bristol.When we got back to Bristol it was still really foggy but thanks to the skill of the crew we landed,about three hours after we first had approached Bristol. I know that dosen't seem much of a delay but we were picked up from our hotel at 12.30am gmt,took off from crete at 3.30am gmt so to put it mildly we were already cream crackered when we first arrived at Bristol.
I know that fog has always been a problem at Bristol,that the wind mostly blows from the West and that the terain at that end of the airport is difficult, but bearing in mind how busy the airport is these days Im surprised that the airport management haven't been more active in finding a solution to this problem. I can't imagine Easy jet are happy bunnies when their tight schedules are disrupted.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BRISTOL
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In fairness the fog has a tendency (not always of course) of rolling in in the early hours 2-6am, the EZY's are all in by then, however the charters FCA/TOM/MYT operate night flights which means that usually their schedule gets more affected by adverse weather at night than the other operators.
I imagine your situation seemed worse because you had been up all day and half the night for your flight, if it was a cheeky little day flight it prob wouldnt of seemed too bad, ahh well be thankful you weren't taken off, made to wait and then coached back, good decision making by FCA
I imagine your situation seemed worse because you had been up all day and half the night for your flight, if it was a cheeky little day flight it prob wouldnt of seemed too bad, ahh well be thankful you weren't taken off, made to wait and then coached back, good decision making by FCA
Brunel to Concorde
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virtute et Industria, et Sumorsaete Ealle
Posts: 2,283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
anoraknophobia
Maybe they should try the WW II Fog Investigation and Dispersal Operation (FIDO).
A typical FIDO installation comprised of piplines running either side and each end of the runway into which petrol was injected under pressure. The petrol was ejected through small holes in the pipe and then ignited by burners fitted at certain intervals along its length. The resultant fire produced heat so intense that it literally burned the fog away from the vicinity of the runway.Fifteen airfields in England were equipped with FIDO in WW II.
As you point out, the topography on the approach to 09 seems to rule out a Cat III system for that runway which the airport says is the operational runway for around one third of each year.
It is ironic because foggy/misty conditions often seem to appear when the wind is out of the eastern quadrant. The last few days with easterlies have been murky and misty, particularly in the mornings, and this morning is especially so where I live (around eight miles as-the-crow-flies to the east of airport), although I believe not bad enough to prevent aircraft landing at BRS, thank goodness. The westerlies are often stronger winds that seem to disperse any murk.
I'm not saying this is always the case of course. I'm not a meteorologist and my observations are merely based on living in the area for the last sixty years.
I fear this problem will be with us for many years and is one of the disadvantages of the site with which BRS will have to continue to contend.
Maybe they should try the WW II Fog Investigation and Dispersal Operation (FIDO).
A typical FIDO installation comprised of piplines running either side and each end of the runway into which petrol was injected under pressure. The petrol was ejected through small holes in the pipe and then ignited by burners fitted at certain intervals along its length. The resultant fire produced heat so intense that it literally burned the fog away from the vicinity of the runway.Fifteen airfields in England were equipped with FIDO in WW II.
As you point out, the topography on the approach to 09 seems to rule out a Cat III system for that runway which the airport says is the operational runway for around one third of each year.
It is ironic because foggy/misty conditions often seem to appear when the wind is out of the eastern quadrant. The last few days with easterlies have been murky and misty, particularly in the mornings, and this morning is especially so where I live (around eight miles as-the-crow-flies to the east of airport), although I believe not bad enough to prevent aircraft landing at BRS, thank goodness. The westerlies are often stronger winds that seem to disperse any murk.
I'm not saying this is always the case of course. I'm not a meteorologist and my observations are merely based on living in the area for the last sixty years.
I fear this problem will be with us for many years and is one of the disadvantages of the site with which BRS will have to continue to contend.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: bristol
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Watabech,yes fair point could have been alot worse,in fact the 220 passengers on board all clapped when the plane finally touched down at Bristol.Merchant venturer,I was aware of the fido system but don't suppose Health and Saftey would go a bundle on such a system.Now Iv'e done a bit of research on Cat3 systems, I realise the problems involved ,bearing in mind the topography.Didn't know the outer marker for such systems was five miles away from the threshold.Even if planning permission was granted for the towers needed to support the transmitter equipment the cost would probably outway the number of times it would be needed. Anyway now Iv'e had a few good nights sleep I don't feel so narky.
On the subject of the new First Choice route to the Dominican Republic,flew with First Choice to DR from Gatwick earlier in the year from Gatwick.Even if there is refuelling stop given the choice I would have flown locally,anthing to avoid the curse of the M4/M25.
On the subject of the new First Choice route to the Dominican Republic,flew with First Choice to DR from Gatwick earlier in the year from Gatwick.Even if there is refuelling stop given the choice I would have flown locally,anthing to avoid the curse of the M4/M25.