the future of 757?
Thread Starter
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From: Europe
the future of 757?
Hello guys
Just wanted to hear what your oppinion is about what the future looks like for boeings 757.
It seems to me that boeing them selves has developed the 737-800/900 in a way that it kind of takes over the role of the 757. Or am I wrong?
The other thing is the competition from airbus (mainly 321).
Does 757 have a long life yet or is it on it's way out?
Just wanted to hear what your oppinion is about what the future looks like for boeings 757.
It seems to me that boeing them selves has developed the 737-800/900 in a way that it kind of takes over the role of the 757. Or am I wrong?
The other thing is the competition from airbus (mainly 321).
Does 757 have a long life yet or is it on it's way out?
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Egcc
I think Wizz has summed it up quite well!
They will still be around for many years to come, but the major players will slowly phase them out as they replace them with more modern equipment, the operators slightly lower down the food chain will pick them up doing charter work because they will be incredibly cheap to get hold of, and of course more and more of them will end up in cargo operations to start their second life!
As regards the 737-NG, well I have flown both 757 and 737 (including NG) and the thing that makes the difference is the fuel burn and hence part of the operating costs for my carrier.
I fly holiday charter ex-MAN. The RAMP FUEL for a 737-800 to fly to the Canaries, with 189 seats on-board, is about the same as the BURN for a 757 to do the same flight. Our 757s are configured to carry 235 pax, so that is a lot of extra fuel for those 46 passengers...
Now that doesn't mean the 757 is no good! Far from it. It is somewhat over-powered, which means you are rarely limited, even with smaller airfields and long distances and as for the brakes, well, all those extra wheels leave the 737 standing (well, actually they leave the 757 standing, whilst the 737 sails passed!) And the cockpit is big enough to hold a room party in, which is more than can be said for the 737.......
So from a piloting point of view, I think the 757 is the nicer place to work (and it's CAT IIIB capable), but from an economical point of view, the 737-NGs have the upper hand.
PP
They will still be around for many years to come, but the major players will slowly phase them out as they replace them with more modern equipment, the operators slightly lower down the food chain will pick them up doing charter work because they will be incredibly cheap to get hold of, and of course more and more of them will end up in cargo operations to start their second life!
As regards the 737-NG, well I have flown both 757 and 737 (including NG) and the thing that makes the difference is the fuel burn and hence part of the operating costs for my carrier.
I fly holiday charter ex-MAN. The RAMP FUEL for a 737-800 to fly to the Canaries, with 189 seats on-board, is about the same as the BURN for a 757 to do the same flight. Our 757s are configured to carry 235 pax, so that is a lot of extra fuel for those 46 passengers...
Now that doesn't mean the 757 is no good! Far from it. It is somewhat over-powered, which means you are rarely limited, even with smaller airfields and long distances and as for the brakes, well, all those extra wheels leave the 737 standing (well, actually they leave the 757 standing, whilst the 737 sails passed!) And the cockpit is big enough to hold a room party in, which is more than can be said for the 737.......
So from a piloting point of view, I think the 757 is the nicer place to work (and it's CAT IIIB capable), but from an economical point of view, the 737-NGs have the upper hand.
PP
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From: planet igloo
Wiz and Pete are spot on so far as the current model is concerned.
The reason the 75 will be around for a while however is a few of these things, payload, performance, and crucially lease costs. If you look at the lease rate for a newish 737 NG (ala 800 etc) compared to a 15 year old 757, the 757 is just under half the money, add in 30-40 extra revenue seats and the previously mentioned points, I'd say its got 7-10 years of life left in it in pax service in western countries.
Have read and heard some interesting noises coming out of Boeing regarding a possible narrow-body replacement for the trusty 75. There are already murmurings about the limitations of the 737 in its 900 stretched incarnation as it is considered a stopgap by many.
Boeing give the impression to me that a narrow body likeness of the 787 is being studied, and as Airbus have nothing between the 321 and 330, there is a gap in the market place, whether that translates into aircraft orders is an entirely different question.
The reason the 75 will be around for a while however is a few of these things, payload, performance, and crucially lease costs. If you look at the lease rate for a newish 737 NG (ala 800 etc) compared to a 15 year old 757, the 757 is just under half the money, add in 30-40 extra revenue seats and the previously mentioned points, I'd say its got 7-10 years of life left in it in pax service in western countries.
Have read and heard some interesting noises coming out of Boeing regarding a possible narrow-body replacement for the trusty 75. There are already murmurings about the limitations of the 737 in its 900 stretched incarnation as it is considered a stopgap by many.
Boeing give the impression to me that a narrow body likeness of the 787 is being studied, and as Airbus have nothing between the 321 and 330, there is a gap in the market place, whether that translates into aircraft orders is an entirely different question.
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Hmmm
757
Had a chat about this the other day in the cruise - the following airlines in the UK currently use 757's (in no particular order!)
BA, Thomsonfly , Monarch , First Choice , Thomas Cook , Astraeus , Flyjet , Titan , My Travel , DHL , Air Scotland , Excel , Jet2.
737's (srs 300 and upward)
BA , Thomsonfly , Titan , Astraeus , Excel , Easyjet , BMI Baby , FlyGlobespan , Jet2 , Ryanair (technically!).
hope i haven't missed any! So i reckon there are more companies ex uk flying the 757 than there are 737, although of course there are far more 737's around!
Granted some of the DHL one's plus some MON/MYT examples have been around since the early 80's (as indeed have some 733's), i think G-MONB had around 80,000 hrs on it last time i looked , but is still going strong and isn't a Kemble candidate just yet!
Some of the TCX one's were new ex factory and can't be more than five years old. In short they will be around for many years yet!
PP - from memory the 757 used to cost about £6k more on say , an AGP than a 738 , rising to about £8k on a TFS , this based on (old) DOC's. Bearing in mind though the seat differential (235 or 233/189) , so in some cases 46 more seats to sell, the old girl doesn't do too bad , although i agree with you that nothing beats a 738 - superb a/c!
BA, Thomsonfly , Monarch , First Choice , Thomas Cook , Astraeus , Flyjet , Titan , My Travel , DHL , Air Scotland , Excel , Jet2.
737's (srs 300 and upward)
BA , Thomsonfly , Titan , Astraeus , Excel , Easyjet , BMI Baby , FlyGlobespan , Jet2 , Ryanair (technically!).
hope i haven't missed any! So i reckon there are more companies ex uk flying the 757 than there are 737, although of course there are far more 737's around!
Granted some of the DHL one's plus some MON/MYT examples have been around since the early 80's (as indeed have some 733's), i think G-MONB had around 80,000 hrs on it last time i looked , but is still going strong and isn't a Kemble candidate just yet!
Some of the TCX one's were new ex factory and can't be more than five years old. In short they will be around for many years yet!
PP - from memory the 757 used to cost about £6k more on say , an AGP than a 738 , rising to about £8k on a TFS , this based on (old) DOC's. Bearing in mind though the seat differential (235 or 233/189) , so in some cases 46 more seats to sell, the old girl doesn't do too bad , although i agree with you that nothing beats a 738 - superb a/c!
Last edited by rentaghost; 22nd January 2006 at 13:45.
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From: Egcc
from memory the 757 used to cost about £6k more on say , an AGP than a 738 , rising to about £8k on a TFS
I have heard from a few charter airlines that the official line is that the 757 is the 'wrong' aeroplane for the routes flown, many due to it being just a bit too big.....this would seem to verify that thought.
PP
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From: big green wheely bin
I would say those DOCs were a bit out of date. I have just had this very conversation with the operations director of the company I work for (we fly B757).
The answer was the lease costs of the 757 are significantly lower than the 737-8/900, a B757 can currently be had for about $80K a month (£45K). The fuel costs and over flight charges are higher, but can be kept under control by use of lower declared take off weights. The big down side with the 737 is the size (180 seats is A320 territory) and the lack of payload. Cargo is starting to be come big business for the charters again. Or for mine anyway.
The charter companies in the UK and USA are putting pressure onto Boeing to build a narrow body version of the 787 to replace the 757. And Boeing are looking at it. We are looking to keep the 757 until 2012.
The answer was the lease costs of the 757 are significantly lower than the 737-8/900, a B757 can currently be had for about $80K a month (£45K). The fuel costs and over flight charges are higher, but can be kept under control by use of lower declared take off weights. The big down side with the 737 is the size (180 seats is A320 territory) and the lack of payload. Cargo is starting to be come big business for the charters again. Or for mine anyway.
The charter companies in the UK and USA are putting pressure onto Boeing to build a narrow body version of the 787 to replace the 757. And Boeing are looking at it. We are looking to keep the 757 until 2012.
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: U.K
The 757 makes money for charter and prob other airlines that use it!
The 757-300 makes a lot of cash on particular flights to Turkey etc!
The 757 is great in terms of performance in both hot and cold weather climates and providing they are not overworked, then the Technical Dispatch Reliability isnt too bad either considering its age.
Would be great if Boeing produced a newbie based on the 757
The 757-300 makes a lot of cash on particular flights to Turkey etc!
The 757 is great in terms of performance in both hot and cold weather climates and providing they are not overworked, then the Technical Dispatch Reliability isnt too bad either considering its age.
Would be great if Boeing produced a newbie based on the 757
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From: Middlesesx
On an aside, what are the numbers of 57's that are predicted to be wingletted? I would assume to that as the a/c finishes with pax services some may be converted to freight. That said the a/c are already being cut up i believe.
Rebel PPRuNer
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From: Toronto, Canada (formerly EICK)
The interesting change in 757 usage is that it is now starting to leave the "shuttle" space to the 737/32x/MD8x and move to longer range routes. AA and CO are using their 757s for thin transatlantic routes. DL reintegrating Song will mean 757s on transcon routes. This means these three fairly cash strapped airlines can increase long/medium range capacity in the space least open to competition by locos.
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From: scotland
with the increase in LCC/no frills airlines in the past few years I suspect UK charter airlines are increasingly under pressure in the seat sales and pricing leading the airlines into keeping older, especially paid for aircraft longer, to be able to compete and stay alive.
therefore expect the 757 to stay around for a long time to come.
therefore expect the 757 to stay around for a long time to come.
