DUBLIN
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NEW IMAGES OF DUBLIN'S PROPOSED CONTROL TOWER
Scott Tallon Walker Architects | Projects | Air Traffic Visual Control Tower Dublin Airport
Scott Tallon Walker Architects | Projects | Air Traffic Visual Control Tower Dublin Airport
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NEW IMAGES OF DUBLIN'S PROPOSED CONTROL TOWER
Scott Tallon Walker Architects | Projects | Air Traffic Visual Control Tower Dublin Airport
Scott Tallon Walker Architects | Projects | Air Traffic Visual Control Tower Dublin Airport
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Folks, just going back to the AI story, I think we should not be too quick to dismiss it. Yes, the runway length is an issue, but with the proper will (and interest at govt level), it is a surmountable problem.
Sydney has a crosswind runway of 8,300' and from time to time, it is necessary to use this to accommodate long haul flights; while there are undoubtedly some capacity constraints, modern jet engines are mostly used with derated power, so at full welly (to use the technical term!), they can deliver a quite stupendous amount of power; remember that the 777-300ER has the most powerful jet engines ever built. Yes, AI would prefer a longer runway, BUT if other parts of the deal are satisfactory, they may be persuaded to wait for this - for example, agreeing to use DUB, subject to a commitment to build a 1,500' (or so) extension within an 18 month period.
I do take Ireland105's point about the poor planning (to put it mildly) in the past and yes, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that things could turn out as he suggests, but on the other hand, we're dealing with new realities here; the govt will be well aware - given the precarious state of our finances - of the need to develop new markets and I would hope/expect that they are pushing hard on this, at all necessary levels - Foreign Affairs, Transport and (if necessary) prime ministerial level.
Coincidentally, here's an article in today's Flight International:
Air India expects to take first 787 next March
The airline is looking to downsize its 77W fleet and there are already a few takers; the 777 fleet is very new. The 787 fleet, deliveries of which are expected to start next March, would have no trouble operating from 10/28.
It's quite possible that the DAA is just blowing smoke and as Ireland105 suggests, they're creating a plausible illusion. However, let's give them the benefit of the doubt.
And we might still see these beauties flying into DUB ...
JetPhotos.Net Photo » VT-ALQ (CN: 36315) Air-India Boeing 777-337ER by John Fitzpatrick
In one sense, it could be a win-win, because although the loss of this would be very disappointing, the reasons for it would be well known (i.e. the shortness of the runway) and could therefore act as a spur to act on this in a serious way.
Sydney has a crosswind runway of 8,300' and from time to time, it is necessary to use this to accommodate long haul flights; while there are undoubtedly some capacity constraints, modern jet engines are mostly used with derated power, so at full welly (to use the technical term!), they can deliver a quite stupendous amount of power; remember that the 777-300ER has the most powerful jet engines ever built. Yes, AI would prefer a longer runway, BUT if other parts of the deal are satisfactory, they may be persuaded to wait for this - for example, agreeing to use DUB, subject to a commitment to build a 1,500' (or so) extension within an 18 month period.
I do take Ireland105's point about the poor planning (to put it mildly) in the past and yes, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that things could turn out as he suggests, but on the other hand, we're dealing with new realities here; the govt will be well aware - given the precarious state of our finances - of the need to develop new markets and I would hope/expect that they are pushing hard on this, at all necessary levels - Foreign Affairs, Transport and (if necessary) prime ministerial level.
Coincidentally, here's an article in today's Flight International:
Air India expects to take first 787 next March
The airline is looking to downsize its 77W fleet and there are already a few takers; the 777 fleet is very new. The 787 fleet, deliveries of which are expected to start next March, would have no trouble operating from 10/28.
It's quite possible that the DAA is just blowing smoke and as Ireland105 suggests, they're creating a plausible illusion. However, let's give them the benefit of the doubt.
And we might still see these beauties flying into DUB ...
JetPhotos.Net Photo » VT-ALQ (CN: 36315) Air-India Boeing 777-337ER by John Fitzpatrick
In one sense, it could be a win-win, because although the loss of this would be very disappointing, the reasons for it would be well known (i.e. the shortness of the runway) and could therefore act as a spur to act on this in a serious way.
Last edited by akerosid; 17th May 2010 at 17:46. Reason: Additional comment
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Air India
Getting a bit carried away with myself here, but with Air India set to become a full Star Alliance next year and Aer Lingus rumoured to also possibly be one of the next in line for membership, this again would make Dublin an interesting option for Air India. That said, it would seem even more interesting to stay in Lufthansa-dominated Frankfurt, but I'm sure there are many strategic advantages and disadvantages to these wild rumours for all involved...
Minor detail: Air India aren't the most financially healthy airline, but granted, such airlines are few and far between.
Minor detail: Air India aren't the most financially healthy airline, but granted, such airlines are few and far between.
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Air India
To be reasonable to all side on the will they wont they, it has to be said that there is no real hard proof one way or the other regarding Air India, but having said that, the probability of the DAA and Irish Government getting new long haul carriers to use the Dublin pre clearance and or T2 in the balance of all probibilites is, I would hazard to say rather high.
Now the debate is would it be Air India, I dont know but i would say that if not them it will be someone, and with the luck of the irish no doubt will be some aviation coup who ever they get!!
Now the debate is would it be Air India, I dont know but i would say that if not them it will be someone, and with the luck of the irish no doubt will be some aviation coup who ever they get!!
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There only hope is another US major, but they are all bleeding heavily from the neck so its not likely. Its both fantastic and bizarre that Etihad have devoted 10 flights a week to Dublin, we can only hope this continues.
Sadly this has been a result of bad government policy that for the past 10 years has been very US centric when we should have been doing some serious relationship building with China, India, Pakistan, Brazil and Russia as well. We missed a tremendous opportunity there - other european nations such as the Netherlands, Germany and Scandinavian countries had their fingers on the pulse and devoted the time and effort to build relations with these countries. Its paying off for them. Ten years ago we from an aviation perspective we could have said they needed us more than we needed them. Now the tables have turned big time and we are essentially ******. The Americans now have a government that cares about american people - jobs for americans etc, and with the decline of the Irish presence in US politics (e.g. death of Ted Kennedy etc) its a bit of a no brainer where this will leave us. The days of calling up a senior diplomat of Irish decent looking for deals to be struck has long run out
Sadly this has been a result of bad government policy that for the past 10 years has been very US centric when we should have been doing some serious relationship building with China, India, Pakistan, Brazil and Russia as well. We missed a tremendous opportunity there - other european nations such as the Netherlands, Germany and Scandinavian countries had their fingers on the pulse and devoted the time and effort to build relations with these countries. Its paying off for them. Ten years ago we from an aviation perspective we could have said they needed us more than we needed them. Now the tables have turned big time and we are essentially ******. The Americans now have a government that cares about american people - jobs for americans etc, and with the decline of the Irish presence in US politics (e.g. death of Ted Kennedy etc) its a bit of a no brainer where this will leave us. The days of calling up a senior diplomat of Irish decent looking for deals to be struck has long run out
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Imagine the coup Etihad could have by routing two of those ten flights via Cork. I would eat my eat if they could not pick up a hundred or so passengers at two flights a week and even via the capital city. Why is this not being sought by the marketeers at Cork or does it all come down to protecting dear ol' Dublin at all costs and let Cork go to hell? Certainly, if there are long haul A330s being despatched from Dublin with fifty passengers there is nothing to lose in trying a few flights via Cork. What an opportunity is being missed in not putting Cork on the long haul map.
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Imagine the coup Etihad could have by routing two of those ten flights via Cork.
Sadly this has been a result of bad government policy that for the past 10 years has been very US centric when we should have been doing some serious relationship building with China, India, Pakistan, Brazil and Russia as well.
One of the factors in keeping the DUB runway short was pressure from the SNN lobby. An artificially short DUB runway meant that there was one less reason to remove the SNN stop over; flights from DUB had to land at SNN if they were going to make it to the US.
With the arrival of the A330's in EI that became less of an issue, but the runway was still a limiting factor. AFAIK, Dublin has the shortest main runway of any main airport in any European capital.
Just one example of how "Parish Pump Politics" hamstrings national issues in Ireland.
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It's actually worse than that.
One of the factors in keeping the DUB runway short was pressure from the SNN lobby. An artificially short DUB runway meant that there was one less reason to remove the SNN stop over; flights from DUB had to land at SNN if they were going to make it to the US.
JAS
One of the factors in keeping the DUB runway short was pressure from the SNN lobby. An artificially short DUB runway meant that there was one less reason to remove the SNN stop over; flights from DUB had to land at SNN if they were going to make it to the US.
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Complete nonsense spotter. "Parish Pump Politics" is right. When did anyone in SNN have the power to tell those in DUB what to do with their runways. There may have been many factors but I doubt very very much that this was one of them.
I'm afraid its true I heard it from a former Aer Rianta manager who worked both Dublin+Shannon,Dublin had applied for a longer runway but was denied by the Government mainly due to pressure from the Shannon region at that time.
Complete nonsense spotter. "Parish Pump Politics" is right. When did anyone in SNN have the power to tell those in DUB what to do with their runways. There may have been many factors but I doubt very very much that this was one of them.
I'm afraid its true I heard it from a former Aer Rianta manager who worked both Dublin+Shannon,Dublin had applied for a longer runway but was denied by the Government mainly due to pressure from the Shannon region at that time.
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Etihad claimed an average seat factor of 80% and that DUB was it's most successful launch. I thought the industry standard was average load factors? Spot figures of some flights having fifty or sixty are therefore of little value.
Dublin doesn't have to become an aerotropolis but it does need a runway, attractive carrier charges and competitive retail shopping.
Dublin doesn't have to become an aerotropolis but it does need a runway, attractive carrier charges and competitive retail shopping.
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Emirates still looking at DUB:
Emirates eyeing Ireland flights launch - top exec - Travel & Hospitality - ArabianBusiness.com
Emirates eyeing Ireland flights launch - top exec - Travel & Hospitality - ArabianBusiness.com