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Join Date: Aug 1999
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I can't remember the cost of it, S.C, but it's actually worse than that, because although C was opened in '98, that was only the first 3 gates; the last three followed quite a bit later.
The thing is that although there will be 8 w/b or 19 n/b stands at Pier E, the NET gain of stands - particularly for w/b aircraft will actually be quite low; the Pier C stands will be lost AND the midfield stands, where cargo acft park and A330s and various other types park, will be lost; that's ten stands. What is going to be done about widebody parking; it seems odd that at a time when DUB is facing the prospect of long haul growth, the net gain of stands is actually a loss?
Also, interestingly, the cost of EUR400m has been put about, BUT that's only for the terminal; the total price, for the terminal and Pier E, is just over EUR600m!
Nothing yet about the tendering process for the new terminal; the DAA hasn't said anything - not surprisingly and since the PDs are more interested in buses now, their minds are elsewhere and of course, the FFers having been pushed into the whole concept of tendering the operating side, won't be saying a word either.
The thing is that although there will be 8 w/b or 19 n/b stands at Pier E, the NET gain of stands - particularly for w/b aircraft will actually be quite low; the Pier C stands will be lost AND the midfield stands, where cargo acft park and A330s and various other types park, will be lost; that's ten stands. What is going to be done about widebody parking; it seems odd that at a time when DUB is facing the prospect of long haul growth, the net gain of stands is actually a loss?
Also, interestingly, the cost of EUR400m has been put about, BUT that's only for the terminal; the total price, for the terminal and Pier E, is just over EUR600m!
Nothing yet about the tendering process for the new terminal; the DAA hasn't said anything - not surprisingly and since the PDs are more interested in buses now, their minds are elsewhere and of course, the FFers having been pushed into the whole concept of tendering the operating side, won't be saying a word either.
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The cost of the new terminal in Dublin is pheonomenal, I thought that the one in Cork was bad but this will be just too much now EUR660 million has to come out of nowhere the cost of the one in Cork nobody know where the money is going to come from? The DAA are saying the CAA should pay and visa-versa, but the new market that EIDW should be targeting is Asia and the Middle East, but the problem is getting airlines that want to operate in, ANA or Cathay Paific for Asia, EL Al maybe for the Middle East but with all the trouble going on at the moment there, Emirates are apparently trying to get in there but with Aer Lingus holding the route at the moment it's hard for Emirates to get in for some reason?
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And don't forget we haven't heard from MO'L yet, who is of course going to be very happy at the prospect of the airport charges going up to 7.50 per pax, for a terminal he won't even be using.
And as for long haul pax (let alone cargo) flights, forget it; airlines are investing billons in (ultra) long haul aircraft; they're not going to fly to an airport like DUB which restricts their ability to use these to their optimum efficiency - 8,650' is simply too short for a nonstop flight to Singapore, or for cargo 744Fs to operate with a decent load. At the end of the day, what it all comes down to is that the DAA gets far too much of a free hand at Dublin Airport; if the government claims that DUB is part of the state's critical infrastructure, let them impose a plan on the DAA.
That the leading airport in a country like ours, so reliant on air transport and exports, has seen air cargo growth flatline and no apparent intention to invest in new cargo facilities is a disgrace. The interest is obviously not there on the DAA's part, but worse still, it's not there at govt level.
And as for long haul pax (let alone cargo) flights, forget it; airlines are investing billons in (ultra) long haul aircraft; they're not going to fly to an airport like DUB which restricts their ability to use these to their optimum efficiency - 8,650' is simply too short for a nonstop flight to Singapore, or for cargo 744Fs to operate with a decent load. At the end of the day, what it all comes down to is that the DAA gets far too much of a free hand at Dublin Airport; if the government claims that DUB is part of the state's critical infrastructure, let them impose a plan on the DAA.
That the leading airport in a country like ours, so reliant on air transport and exports, has seen air cargo growth flatline and no apparent intention to invest in new cargo facilities is a disgrace. The interest is obviously not there on the DAA's part, but worse still, it's not there at govt level.
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Still working on the €400m figure here. Was this something that the DAA put out initially; in fairness to them, they do refer to the full cost in their report, although it is hidden in page 30 or so of a 36 plage splurge (on the DAA site).
You can almost see what happens next; the DAA will put a request in to the Regulator for a cost increase, the Regulator will politely say that they need more info and the DAA will throw a hissy fit.
I think, realistically, an international operator would much rather focus on the new Terminal 3, for which Fingal CC has already put plans in place, rather than a design which its competition has already commissioned. Ultimately, the best outcome would be to have a level playing field. The problem with having an independent operator for T2 is that there won't be that level playing field, because the DAA is responsible for airfield maintenance, security, fire services (nearly wrote dire services there - what a freudian slip!
) etc. Why not confine the DAA to the regulatory side of operating an airport and then, the operation of the two terminal could be put out to tender, either individually or (preferably) as a unit; there could then be a competition for the operation of T3 and you would have competition between them; this could be made to work - terminal operators would focus on what they should be doing - planning and building terminals and providing services to the traveller, while touting for new business, while the DAA is focused on its role.
You can almost see what happens next; the DAA will put a request in to the Regulator for a cost increase, the Regulator will politely say that they need more info and the DAA will throw a hissy fit.
I think, realistically, an international operator would much rather focus on the new Terminal 3, for which Fingal CC has already put plans in place, rather than a design which its competition has already commissioned. Ultimately, the best outcome would be to have a level playing field. The problem with having an independent operator for T2 is that there won't be that level playing field, because the DAA is responsible for airfield maintenance, security, fire services (nearly wrote dire services there - what a freudian slip!
) etc. Why not confine the DAA to the regulatory side of operating an airport and then, the operation of the two terminal could be put out to tender, either individually or (preferably) as a unit; there could then be a competition for the operation of T3 and you would have competition between them; this could be made to work - terminal operators would focus on what they should be doing - planning and building terminals and providing services to the traveller, while touting for new business, while the DAA is focused on its role.
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A perfectly plausible idea Akerosid, it's just a shame that great idea's like those are what our goverment never seem to go for 
I'm still trying to put a price on what the final cost will be on a new terminal (T2), Pied D (which construction has started on and will probably soon be called "pier C" since that will be demolished!!!), Pie E, an over-laying of Rwy 11/29 to make it into the new parallel 10/28 and an underground metro station (who's construction will probably end up being too small for the trains
) I just don't think the estimate of €1.2 Billion from the DAA is reasonable?
Reading todays news papers I see their reporting on how FF promise reducing tax rates and doing a lot for the elderly could buy them the elction coming up. So how are they going to pay for all this work? I can't see O'Leary saying he will be willing to take on the increaded fee's.
I'm no economist nor much a man of commerce, but without private involvement, how are we meant to pay for all this?
S.C.
I'm still trying to put a price on what the final cost will be on a new terminal (T2), Pied D (which construction has started on and will probably soon be called "pier C" since that will be demolished!!!), Pie E, an over-laying of Rwy 11/29 to make it into the new parallel 10/28 and an underground metro station (who's construction will probably end up being too small for the trains
) I just don't think the estimate of €1.2 Billion from the DAA is reasonable?Reading todays news papers I see their reporting on how FF promise reducing tax rates and doing a lot for the elderly could buy them the elction coming up. So how are they going to pay for all this work? I can't see O'Leary saying he will be willing to take on the increaded fee's.
I'm no economist nor much a man of commerce, but without private involvement, how are we meant to pay for all this?
S.C.
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sky_captain....From viewing the plans for the new pier D, I can not see anything to show that Pier C will be demolished. Looks like Pier D will sit snugly into Pier C as it is now.
As for the new Pier D under construction, there is a picture of it here ..
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=527071
It appears to be running right beside the Temporary extension to pier A currently being used
As for the new Pier D under construction, there is a picture of it here ..
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=527071
It appears to be running right beside the Temporary extension to pier A currently being used
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Interesting to note today that FR has announced new routes ex-Dublin, including Malta, Stockholm and "the Canary Islands" (not tying themselves to any particular one!). I'm surprised because I thought MO'L would have wanted clarification on the whole fees thing before they committed to any more expansion.
Maybe, as you suggest towards the end of your post, EI-RB, the time has now come to bring in outside investors, if the DAA can't raise the funds. I still think there is something fundamentally dishonest and deliberately misleading about splitting the cost of the pier and terminal; why do they have to do this? I can't think of anywhere else that these are separated, can anyone else? What's the point - why not say straight out that the terminal includes the Pier cost and that's EUR 600m.
We're now getting towards election time and FF is having a "think in" this weekend, to come up with new policies. I think it's important that the fiasco that is Dublin Airport is brought to and kept at the forefront, because really, it's an embarrassment. Fundamentally, the govt - while conceding that DUB is part of the state's critical infrastructure, has completely failed to maintain control over the DAA and ensure that it provides the required infrastructure. Unfortunately, the big stick approach is needed, hence my proposal above about confining the DAA to the regulatory aspects of running an airport.
Maybe, as you suggest towards the end of your post, EI-RB, the time has now come to bring in outside investors, if the DAA can't raise the funds. I still think there is something fundamentally dishonest and deliberately misleading about splitting the cost of the pier and terminal; why do they have to do this? I can't think of anywhere else that these are separated, can anyone else? What's the point - why not say straight out that the terminal includes the Pier cost and that's EUR 600m.
We're now getting towards election time and FF is having a "think in" this weekend, to come up with new policies. I think it's important that the fiasco that is Dublin Airport is brought to and kept at the forefront, because really, it's an embarrassment. Fundamentally, the govt - while conceding that DUB is part of the state's critical infrastructure, has completely failed to maintain control over the DAA and ensure that it provides the required infrastructure. Unfortunately, the big stick approach is needed, hence my proposal above about confining the DAA to the regulatory aspects of running an airport.
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Sorry for the confusion Flame, I didn't mean they were demolishing the C Pier for the D Pier. the C Pier is the site of the new Terminal two. It looks like part of the C pier will be kept but some of it will be incorporated into the new terminal. Looking at the plans it also seems they will need to demolish Ryanairs hangar! I wonder if they will complain, even if they don't own it?
S.C.
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. Also i have heard that corballis house is to be moved to a new location as it is a listed building
Last edited by i_need_cider; 5th Sep 2006 at 00:55. Reason: correction of spelling
Join Date: Aug 2004
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So whats happening to Corballis House
"So whats happening to Corballis House"
Think its going to be taken down piece by piece transported and reassembled in Bunratty folk park! (didn't they do that with a few cottages in Shannon)
Think its going to be taken down piece by piece transported and reassembled in Bunratty folk park! (didn't they do that with a few cottages in Shannon)
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I appreciate that it has to be moved, but to Clare? It's just not right; I mean, the very name Corballis House ties it to where it is. (I tried to look up the geneology on the Internet, but didn't get too far), but having it in Clare just didn't seem to make sense.
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Declan Collier article in Irish Times
DAA CEO Declan Collier has a piece in today's Irish Times, trying to refute allegations and criticism made of the DAA.
- He still refers to the €395m terminal (i.e. the cost of the terminal, less Pier E); I still don't understand why they cannot refer to both the terminal and Pier E?
- Once the terminal is built, there will be a possibility of an extra 15,000 sq. metres, before Terminal 3 is brought on line.
- There will be an extra €300m of spending on T1, before T2 is in operation. (Does this include Pier D?)
No mention of cargo developments, runway extension, Pier E ...
- He still refers to the €395m terminal (i.e. the cost of the terminal, less Pier E); I still don't understand why they cannot refer to both the terminal and Pier E?
- Once the terminal is built, there will be a possibility of an extra 15,000 sq. metres, before Terminal 3 is brought on line.
- There will be an extra €300m of spending on T1, before T2 is in operation. (Does this include Pier D?)
No mention of cargo developments, runway extension, Pier E ...
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Air Cargo at Dublin?
Just caught this projection by Boeing of Air Cargo developments generally, including specific markets such as Europe Asia, which is supposed to see growth of nearly 7% over the next 20 years or so.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/new...60913c_nr.html
I've been trying to ascertain for some time whether there are any plans for air cargo development at DUB and there doesn't seem to be any; the new terminal/pier will eat into parking stands used by cargo acft at present, the runway is shorter than it should be and there seems to be little or no interest at government level. While pax traffic has mushroomed over the last 5-10 years, cargo traffic has pretty much flatlined. Asian carriers have spent billions on 747 freighters over the last few years (with more to come, no doubtr, but with one exception - SIA - we seem to be getting none of this, especially from north Asian markets).
What amazes me particularly is that while the govt pushes trade links with India, China and other major markets (and also, incidentally, while Dublin Port is experiencing capacity problems), there is no apparent pressure on the DAA to do anything about this. Does anyone know if they actually have plans to develop cargo facilities at DUB?
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/new...60913c_nr.html
I've been trying to ascertain for some time whether there are any plans for air cargo development at DUB and there doesn't seem to be any; the new terminal/pier will eat into parking stands used by cargo acft at present, the runway is shorter than it should be and there seems to be little or no interest at government level. While pax traffic has mushroomed over the last 5-10 years, cargo traffic has pretty much flatlined. Asian carriers have spent billions on 747 freighters over the last few years (with more to come, no doubtr, but with one exception - SIA - we seem to be getting none of this, especially from north Asian markets).
What amazes me particularly is that while the govt pushes trade links with India, China and other major markets (and also, incidentally, while Dublin Port is experiencing capacity problems), there is no apparent pressure on the DAA to do anything about this. Does anyone know if they actually have plans to develop cargo facilities at DUB?