Willie swings his axe

[Rainboe]

Sorry, but garbage. BA are large enough to achieve savings in quantity. They can then go to match capacity to routes and achieve further savings. Virgin got large enough to be able to mix 2 types- 340 & 747. BA is several orders up and the fleet mix is good.

[Carnage Matey!]

But if you consider what is necessary to crew these aircraft then the fleet consists of:
737
A320
757/767
747
777

Just five aircraft types for short, medium, long and ultra long haul travel. Reasonably efficient I'd say.

Compare that with:

Virgin: only 23 aircraft and 744s, 343s and 346s in there.
Lufthansa: 737, various 320s, 330, 343, 346, A300, 744, MD11.
Air France: 737s, A320s, 330s, 340s, 777s, 747s, possibly A300s still?
KLM: 737, 767, 777,743(?), 744, MD11
SAS: 737s, MD80, MD90, various 320s, 330, 340, 767

[DarkStar]

The problem about BA's numerous fleets and sub-fleets is that BA has historically conducted mods that make the aircraft very difficult to sell on to other operators. BA has finally cottoned onto this and are trying to reduce the number of 'BA specific' mods.

BA is overloaded with Senior Managers, in fact, you could easily say its overloaded at all staffing levels except during Wimbledon and Henley when the CC seem to develop serious illness's for a few days.

The cuts are small beer really, I think HZ123 has hit the nail on the head though. T5 has major problems already in place with massive coaching demands required and outdated working practices and agreements amongst the Ramp staff and Aircraft movements.

[PAXboy]

Carnage Matey! I agree that BA has survived a great deal but – looking in from the outside – the consistent theme has been the variance between long and short haul. If the company thinks that it is no longer a problem, then fine. But it looks to me as if this is an old sore that may open again. My comments about BACX were also about their management and how several profitable companies have been boiled down into a loss making one.

With regards to the changes when the next wave of closures and mergers has taken place: As I often say on PPRuNe, I am not an airline analyst just a UK worker and rider. But, if BA thinks that, once their rivals die a natural death, their life will get easier – then I think that they are wrong. Firstly, because you cannot rely upon another company failing for you to succeed and secondly, because by the time that wave is complete, another five or seven years will have rolled by and all savings will have been taken and the shareholders will want MORE money. You can only squeeze just so much. Ask the UK National Health Service.

Fix the BACX problem by all means - replacing the management would be a great start - but don't try to claim some huge synergy remains untapped because they remain separate organisations. They're different types of operation for different types of flying.

Indeed they are and that is what I have been saying, possibly badly! The company exists as two sub groupings who (it appears) challenge each other – rather than looking outward. It is a long standing mgmt ‘technique’ to get divisions to compete for the attention of the CEO and Board. In the long run, I aver, it tends to do more damage.

Sunfish: The Google quotes are interesting but not really relevant as the two companies are startlingly different.[list=a][*] One company is 10 years old and the other is between 40 and 80 years, depending upon your starting point.[*] One company has "4,183 as of June 30, 2005, many of whom are technical/engineering" (Google.com today) and the other has considerably more, I cannot find the reference off hand but think that the last time it was mentioned, it was about 56,000?[*] One company sells software that does not have a shelf life and the basic code can be developed further into something new and the other sells seats that cease to have a value, the moment the flight closes and they can never be sold again.[*] One company sells software delivered on CD or downloaded with only conventional business practice to worry about, the other sells a product that has to fly through the air at +550mph in total safety and are subject to thousands of regulations across the globe.[/list=a]
Need I go on? There is no comparison.

Whilst I agree that there is still a class system in the UK (just as there is in every single grouping of humans around the globe!) you may be sure that, in commerce, it only applies in small areas. In my view (27 years in commerce here and abroad) the broad swathe of 'class' no longer applies.

[MarkD]

CM

Your comments re fleet may be so but it is not WW's philosophy - otherwise EI's 737s wouldn't be flying around Russia now. While there might be cause to say 321 and 757 can coexist, given 752s better range, the 733/4/5 fleet is an unnecessary duplication with the A319/A320 fleet (or vice versa depending on your POV). The 767s and up do not overlap in terms of pax carried etc and thus truly serve different purposes.

WW has likely taken Southwest's "It's 25+ or it's none" philosophy to heart. Of course, he could be waiting for Boeing to produce 737-4G or Airbus the NG 320...

[HZ123]

I cannot see the correlation of BA to IBM anyway. The upshot of all of these threads still comes back to BA having to overcome competition and the possibility of a depressed / low fares market which is increasing in volume daily. The headcount can be reduced by thousands and maybe some / all of the ground operations - check-in, ramp plus others needs to be outsourced. At present surely our fleet age and type is not a major issue. We need to ensure that the seats are taken and the yields increase. Over the next few years you will witness BA emerging as one of the most profitable groups again, just watch the share price.

[Carnage Matey!]

MarkD - you overlook the fact that Aer Lingus was, and still is, a very small airline. There are few economies of scale when you're operating 15 Airbusses and 11 737s. Even with rationalisation the entire fleet now consists of just 27 short haul and 7 long haul Airbusses! Compare that with BAs LGW operation which is 30+ 737s. We get greater economies of scale from one sub-division of BA than Aer Lingus could get from their entire fleet!

When the savings from type commonality and engineering and crewing costs exceeds the cost of replacing 30+ 737s then I'm sure the LGW 737s will be replaced. Until that time the 73s are staying because nobody will be driven by dogma to replace them just because it makes the fleet look nice.

[bar none]

At last maybe a glimmer of hope. It is rumoured that the 757 fleet will not be retired but deployed outside London to operate niche routes.
The first, and most unexpected, niche route is expected to be Man Amm to connect with new one world carrier Royal Jordanian who will be providing a multitude of easterly connections.
Emirates watch out !

[brian_dromey]

All the noise about BACX????

BA, IMO, needs to have an assertive presence at regional airports around the british isles, obviously they all nee to be profitable as well. BA have simply walked away from european ops. That all very well while the LOCO's are operating on low yield intra european services, but what about if they spread their wings? Will BA just walk away? Will it have a choice?

If I were WW i would scrap BACX, give shiny new embraer 190/195s to independant operators,(unless BA can operate them at a lower cost,with better service). Then add a select few 170s for LCY, etc, consolidate the A32X to london, and send the Boeings to the regions, eventually replacing them with A32x or 190/195.

Then dump the 757/767 for a350 OR 787, replace the 744 with 773ER and volá 4 types, all perfectly tailored for their market, comfort improved, costs reduced. Only problem....its expense!

[cirrus01]

The BA 737 fleet is already reducing , several -400s have gone in the last 12 months. I believe that the leases are all up by 2008. So BA S/H have to re-equip or change or disappear by then.

Even if every BA LGW short haul flight departed on time, had every seat filled, had nil defects and ADDs..............LGW would still be in the firing line to lose flights/people as a sacrifice to the "nationalised industry " ethos that pervades BA ( Protect LHR at any cost )

One option that BA want is 3CC instead of 4 on the smaller 737s........this suggestion has been greeted with horror by the lemon slicers, who might then have to work as hard as their counterparts in the orange machines...............

[Da Dog]

cirrus01, I would,nt if I were you knock the LGW SH lemon slicers

Maybe their LHR counter parts might want to help them out by doing 45 sectors a month, 25 minute turnarounds and 9 days off a month.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree

[Carnage Matey!]

Hey you can't call them lemon slicers! The lemons come pre-sliced these days.

[MarkD]

Carnage - true but there are three subtypes (733/4/5) in that 33. Of the 27 A32x in EI's fleet, 21 are 320s and there are rumblings of more to come. In fact some would say EI needs a little more fractioning with 319s or 318s to make some of their newer routes make sense.

Looking at the Fact Book BA had 47 319 options (at least some convertible) at 31.12.2004 but surely some delivery positions will have to be taken soon if 2008 deliveries are contemplated. As for the existing a/c, 733s and 735s are leased (as are 30 of the A319/320s) but only 1 734 is down as leased in the Fact Book.

[flyer55]

The decision to replace the 737's @ lgw will not be made until March 2007

[Hansol]

I still think Willie will take the low hanging fruit first, BACX and Gatwick. BA has made great strides recently but it still has a long way to go, as long as Willie stays motovated and empowered I am confident he will do the job. But this is a big if, he needs to take on the unions at all levels and reach an accomodation. Interesting times indeed.

[PAXboy]

I have just heard a succinct encapsulation of the current busines culture that, I think, holds, irrespective of the line of work: Apropos another large UK plc ... "Others stayed with it and became part of the recurring half times two times fifty percent culture. In other words, you get half the people - to do twice as much work - for fifty percent more money.

--------------------
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[flyer55]

What ever WW has planned he will do but personally think he will go after LHR and Waterside!

[Yak97]

BHX - for the chop?

I think this was covered somewhere else after a well known Irishman's remarks but....

Does BA @ BHX have a long term future? With BA appearing to only be interested in LHR & T5, what does the BA operations at BHX add to the great scheme? With other UK destinations there are at least flights to LHR, but there's nothing from BHX, so no feed to the profitable(?) long haul flights.

Is WW sharpening his axe??

[Bomber Harris]

Willie strikes the first blow against unions??

Breaking news on BBC world that BA have just sacked a union representative who was 'involved' somehow in the most recent baggage handlers strike. More reps under investigation.

Is this Willie upping the ante? Or is it a genuine disciplinary measure for orchestrating an unofficial strike?

It's not on the website yet so can't paste in the report for you.

[Carnage Matey!]

Try here

If this was anything other than a genuine disciplinary measure BA would be exposing themselves to legal action for unfair dismissal.