Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.


Old 3rd Feb 2017, 13:32
  #481 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 176
I wonder if a company like Viking could give a new lease of life to the S2000/340 family as they have with the Twin Otter?
exlatccatsa is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2017, 14:22
  #482 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 448
But those big engines are very expensive to maintain.
willy wombat is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2017, 14:26
  #483 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: scotland
Posts: 743
Is the ATR being trialed by Eastern as well, as its been operating HUY-ABZ-SCS-ABZ-HUY today.
goldeneye is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2017, 14:35
  #484 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 145
Originally Posted by TangoAlphad View Post
If only someone would! The 2000 is actually pretty modern but the 340 with some new kit and more pokey engines would just be the dogs bollox. Fantastic wee plane.
Given the 340's are coming up 30years old and the 2000s a touch younger, at what age do YOU consider re-engining is still commercially viable? I'm really not sure I want to be flying around in a very harsh salty environment in something metallic that's already done 35 years service. And if a re-manufacturer thinks it's commercially viable he's got to be reckoning on 15 years more service.
Thanks but I'd prefer a new one before then, even at a fare premium.
50yr old bollox have never been much use to any dog. Time it went to the 'farm'

Last edited by V12; 3rd Feb 2017 at 14:46.
V12 is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2017, 18:03
  #485 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 962
Well the old Totters were pretty old and I think 'VK is still a back up aircraft.

They saw a lot more salt too but I'd fly on 'VK tomorrow with no hesitation.

Plenty of old aeroplanes around especially in the GA fleet- I know fly Robin that's almost 50 years old a works hard as a glider tug.
22/04 is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2017, 18:11
  #486 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 10
The problem is the market is quite small. They seem to manage with the ATRs in Ireland, albeit with a few incidents now and again. I believe these may have been down to inexperienced crews though.

The Saabs are pilots aircraft but the ATR is more economical and passenger friendly. Fuel burn of probably 800kg/hr with 72 passengers.

The smaller Dash 8 models would have been a good replacement for the Saab 340 but they stopped making them too. The Q400 wouldn't really be suitable for Loganair's shorter routes.

The Saab 2000 will be expensive to operate long term.
Arctic Circle is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2017, 07:40
  #487 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 176
Surely the market for the smaller turbo prop is about to grow. With the aging Dash8 -100 and -200 and the Saab 340 coming to the end of their economic lives and only the ATR to replace them?
exlatccatsa is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2017, 10:56
  #488 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4
Is there any news on how the ATR trials went?

I think Loganair are still keeping their options open, I think the new 340 they have is only being leased for the year initially. Although saying that they have spent an awful lot of money on the PAX 340 fleet refurbishing them last year so they must be intending on using them for a little while yet.

It seems like they are doing lots of recruiting as well for all the back office (marketing, commercial etc) people they will need now they are going it alone.
SeeFlyer is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2017, 15:53
  #489 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 643
When loganair set up there own flight booking web site to go it alone as a stand alone operator, hopefully they will be offering cheaper fares on the likes of the Inverness - Manchester - Inverness routes.
fjencl is online now  
Old 14th Feb 2017, 16:03
  #490 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southampton
Posts: 1
Even with Loganair going alone I wouldn't count on fares being any cheaper then they currently are!
canberra97 is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2017, 17:02
  #491 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Soon to be out of the EU.
Posts: 0
I don't think they'll be cheaper. Instead of paying franchise fees to flyBe they'll have to pay for admin services and support themselves which comes at a cost. If anyone's looking forward to lower fares then they're setting themselves up for disappointment.
HeartyMeatballs is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2017, 08:47
  #492 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: scotland
Posts: 743
Will Loganair adopt the back office booking systems of sister airline BMI Regional ?

Could be the start of them working closer together once BE franchise ends.
goldeneye is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2017, 10:32
  #493 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 10

With the closure of citywings has this opened up an opportunity to take over the Glasgow to IOM route? Surely now it can be made commercially viable as it would be the only airline on the route.
Morus193 is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2017, 13:29
  #494 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,636
I think Loganair is the airline to fill the void left by Citywing's closure.

Belfast City twice daily ideally, on Saab and done in conjunction with GLA and potentially EDI rotations. BHD twice daily on a Saab would be a significant increase in capacity, but given the fares that Citywing were collecting for very short trips, I believe that Loganair could stimulate the market and grow the business. EDI as an aside while non operational of late it had enjoyed stronger numbers than GLA in the mid 2000's, circa 2006.

The underlying challenge will be loganair's ability to cost effectively deliver such an operation without basing aircraft and crew on the Island, in which case a daily Scotland -IOM-Belfast -IOM-Scotland rotation would appear more feasable. They certainly could look to lever costs at airports like IOM/BFS/BHD...
EI-BUD is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2017, 13:57
  #495 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,092
Which begs the question - why has Loganair never done that before? Maybe because they don't feel it is worth the effort? Citywings chased them off the rock within ten weeks when Loganair tried BHD and BLK a couple of years back - despite the superior aircraft, better brand and - on paper - the better economics of a larger operation.

To be honest, I believe that most of the Citywing routes will be gone for good unless some foreign airline with a 19 seater shows up or the routes get some sort of subsidy. Purely commercial regional flying is more or less dead.
virginblue is online now  
Old 11th Mar 2017, 15:54
  #496 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,636

You make a lot of sense here, but to be fair Citywing had 10 daily iom bhd serving both airports , with very low costs, ie a prop with low fuel burn and a well known name in the market, business people had frequency and the locals in IOM knew they were on these routes. Loganair also are quite risk averse, this time without an incumbent they might look at it...

Last edited by EI-BUD; 12th Mar 2017 at 17:51.
EI-BUD is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2017, 18:00
  #497 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: iom
Posts: 109
It would be great if Loganair can find a way to add such services however I am not holding my breath. They have operated IOM to both GLA and EDI before when they operated as both BA and Flybe franchisees.

Even with these more "recognised" brands there was insufficient traffic. Citywing only took over the IOM-GLA route after Loganair/Flybe pulled out and after the IOM and Scottish Governments got involved.
jijpc is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2017, 15:17
  #498 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,092
You make a lot of sense here, but to be fair Citywing had 10 daily iom bhd serving both airports
I don't think there have ever been 10 daily lfights to Belfast. I think it maxed out at 5 daily when Manx2 had the short-lived split operation serving both BFS and BHD. There has never been more capacity than 100 seats daily and for last couple of years it was between 60-80 seats. So with the 35seat Saabs on the way out at Loganair to make room for a 50seat replacement, I don't really see how Loganair could be a long-term option. And a once daily flight is not really useful - folks can than just as well travel via Dublin or take the ferry or connect via MAN.
virginblue is online now  
Old 22nd Mar 2017, 12:50
  #499 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 25
The new website looks to be up and running.

Last edited by trolleydolly737; 22nd Mar 2017 at 13:02.
trolleydolly737 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2017, 16:13
  #500 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,092
Hm, needs some fine tuning.

You should not start your fleet presentation with the smallest aircraft, and you should not start your fares sub-menu with compassionate fares talking aobut deaths, illnesses etc.
virginblue is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.