LONDON CITY
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Originally Posted by AlanM
I can't comment on this case - but I am interested in your comments
1. When you say the D328 had to route around the SE of England - do you mean it initially flew the whole STAR via SPEAR for a change - and not being given a short cut through LAM? (A LAM release often causes a much busier workload to Thames - and the TMA NE on 118.82 sometimes have to work incredibly hard to get you down to 4000ft by LAM.
2. Please do not have a go at ATC. It is nothing to do with Thames Radar or LCY Tower. The fact that there are no stands must mean that either the allocation plan is flawed, or someone went u/s on stand.
3. There are plenty of airfields to divert to if the weather is that bad.
4. It is only going to get busier - as Thames is expected to work all the Southend inbounds/outbounds from Southend (probably using 4000ft to get them inside CAS)
5. Everything inbound is descending to ALKIN at 4000ft - from SPEAR/LAM/DET - and Thames have only 3000ft and 4000ft to play with (and an RMA that is tiny - and runs DET-BIG-LCY-DET approx)
6. All the CLN/DVR/SAM/LYD SID's climb to 4000ft.
7. Biggin Hill is getting busier and they use the same levels.
8. I have NEVER seen any airline crews to Thames Radar. (I managed to get LCY to pull a few strings to get me on a Fam flight earlier in the year with VLM who are great!)
Why not come and visit - and you will see just how crowded the airspace is. The safest place for a departure when the sectors are overloaded and pilots want wx avoidance is on the ground. I appreciate that this doesn't help at LCY!
1. When you say the D328 had to route around the SE of England - do you mean it initially flew the whole STAR via SPEAR for a change - and not being given a short cut through LAM? (A LAM release often causes a much busier workload to Thames - and the TMA NE on 118.82 sometimes have to work incredibly hard to get you down to 4000ft by LAM.
2. Please do not have a go at ATC. It is nothing to do with Thames Radar or LCY Tower. The fact that there are no stands must mean that either the allocation plan is flawed, or someone went u/s on stand.
3. There are plenty of airfields to divert to if the weather is that bad.
4. It is only going to get busier - as Thames is expected to work all the Southend inbounds/outbounds from Southend (probably using 4000ft to get them inside CAS)
5. Everything inbound is descending to ALKIN at 4000ft - from SPEAR/LAM/DET - and Thames have only 3000ft and 4000ft to play with (and an RMA that is tiny - and runs DET-BIG-LCY-DET approx)
6. All the CLN/DVR/SAM/LYD SID's climb to 4000ft.
7. Biggin Hill is getting busier and they use the same levels.
8. I have NEVER seen any airline crews to Thames Radar. (I managed to get LCY to pull a few strings to get me on a Fam flight earlier in the year with VLM who are great!)
Why not come and visit - and you will see just how crowded the airspace is. The safest place for a departure when the sectors are overloaded and pilots want wx avoidance is on the ground. I appreciate that this doesn't help at LCY!
Sorry, but the guys at LTCC regularly bust a gut to get LCY inbounds down below the LAM hold and LHR departures via BPK, etc., and in doing so have to mix it with LTN departures via BPK and other itinerant traffic. The management at LCY (and the flight crews operating there) need to understand that the continuous increases in traffic at LCY cannot indefinitely accommodate what are in effect 'no delay' full-release approaches into the airport. As for stand congestion and 'full house' situations, again this is a matter for LCY's management and it's Ops Department. LTN on occcasions is also nearing 'full house' situations particularly at peak times if there are significant departure delays. LCY's had it easy up to now, thanks to innovative ATC. But the honeymoon period is definitely approaching its end.
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It seems as if VLM Airlines is gearing up for the introduction of a 6th daily flight to AMS. This is from Luchtvaartnieuws:
From that article I also gather that VLM now does catering for all their flights at LCY.
VLM Airlines vliegt met Fokker 50’s vanuit Nederland elke dag elf keer tussen Rotterdam en Londen City. Daarnaast zijn de vluchten tussen Schiphol en Londen City zeer succesvol. “We zitten nu op vijf vluchten per dag, en waarschijnlijk komt daar binnenkort een zesde bij,” zo kondigt Vet aan.
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Originally Posted by deing
I see that Netjets now operate the Beechjet into LCY, any info if the Falcon 2000 or other bizjets will/can be certified for LCY ops?
Thks,
Deing
Thks,
Deing
Cessna will presumably get the Cessna 510 Mustang certified at some point & presumably some of the other VLJ's will also be certified.
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- According to Amadeus, VLM will replace the Fokker 50on the LUX route with an ARJ effective mid-may (anyone if this will be a wet-lease and what the source will be?)
- Airliner World reports that CLub328 will have the FD328-300 certified for LCY ops soon.
- Airliner World reports that CLub328 will have the FD328-300 certified for LCY ops soon.
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Hmmm, the Milan service is a once daily late morning flight to MXP. A double-daily to Linate might work, but this... ?
The VLM Avro, by the way, is uploaded into the CRS as a RJ70. Maybe one of the ex Euromanx RJ70s - are these still at EXT at the moment ? As there are only 11 RJ70s around, there is not that much choice.....
The VLM Avro, by the way, is uploaded into the CRS as a RJ70. Maybe one of the ex Euromanx RJ70s - are these still at EXT at the moment ? As there are only 11 RJ70s around, there is not that much choice.....
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A318 & E170 @ LCY
LCY management anticipate that the A318 shall be certified for operation at LCY before the end of 2006. The Embraer 170 has already been tested and i believe it has been certified for operation at LCY although no airlines currently operate the type at LCY. It will be interesting to see how the airport copes with these aircraft. They are not compatible with the current equipment and turn-around procedures. There will be a need to push back these aircraft onto stand. Currently there only a few Tugs and drivers.
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Can't imagine the tugs and driver numbers would be a problem, given the maximum number of the above mentioned a/c type that could be at LCY at one time.
Surely you'd only need a max of 2 drivers and 2 tugs available at any 1 time???
Surely you'd only need a max of 2 drivers and 2 tugs available at any 1 time???
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Originally Posted by zeronine
The Embraer 170 has already been tested and i believe it has been certified for operation at LCY although no airlines currently operate the type at LCY.
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thats what I thought too, but since they cancelled the order, maybe Embraer had second thoughts as to the most likely aircraft to serve LCY.
LCY's masterplan predicts 8 million passengers, 171,000 movements and 25 aircraft stands (nose in) by 2030. There is also a maintenance facility to be built on the northern side of the airfield with associated taxiway. The main runway at 1,319m (1,599m paved) will also have a parallel taxiway.
Terminal will be doubled in size too. New aircraft types that WILL be certified before the end of the year include the ERJ 170/190 and the A318.
BA should really base some of its operation there perhaps with a new order for the A318 - mainline?
LCY's masterplan predicts 8 million passengers, 171,000 movements and 25 aircraft stands (nose in) by 2030. There is also a maintenance facility to be built on the northern side of the airfield with associated taxiway. The main runway at 1,319m (1,599m paved) will also have a parallel taxiway.
Terminal will be doubled in size too. New aircraft types that WILL be certified before the end of the year include the ERJ 170/190 and the A318.
BA should really base some of its operation there perhaps with a new order for the A318 - mainline?
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Are you sure about the ERJ190 being certified for LCY ? First time that I have heard of this. I don't have the data for the E190 handy, but the slightly larger E195 requires 1.468m of runway for landings and for a 500nm flight 1.576m of runway for take-off - this compared to 1.157m and 1.273 for the E170.
Originally Posted by virginblue
Are you sure about the ERJ190 being certified for LCY ? First time that I have heard of this.
http://www.lcacc.org/committee/170206present.pdf
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This is the performance data for the E190 from EMBRAER's website:
Takeoff Field Length, ISA, SL, MTOW 6,913ft 2,107m
Takeoff Field Length, ISA, SL, TOW for 500nm 4,282ft 1,305m
Landing Field Length, SL, MLW 4,567ft 1,392m
I seriously doubt that this will work at LCY.....
I guess that the E170/E190 remark simply refers to the EJet family in general. Would be quite strange if the E190 was to be certified but the E175 not.
Takeoff Field Length, ISA, SL, MTOW 6,913ft 2,107m
Takeoff Field Length, ISA, SL, TOW for 500nm 4,282ft 1,305m
Landing Field Length, SL, MLW 4,567ft 1,392m
I seriously doubt that this will work at LCY.....
I guess that the E170/E190 remark simply refers to the EJet family in general. Would be quite strange if the E190 was to be certified but the E175 not.
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I think you are right by syaing it refers to the Embraer family.
I cannot remember whether it was the E170/175 but this variant as opposed to the E190/195 has definately been succefully tested at LCY and I believe it has been certified for airline operation at LCY too.
I dont think the E170/175 will be too popular initially as the RJ100 or equivilant BAe146 has a greater pax capacity and is compatible with existing equipment and procedures and does not require pushback onto stand!
I cannot remember whether it was the E170/175 but this variant as opposed to the E190/195 has definately been succefully tested at LCY and I believe it has been certified for airline operation at LCY too.
I dont think the E170/175 will be too popular initially as the RJ100 or equivilant BAe146 has a greater pax capacity and is compatible with existing equipment and procedures and does not require pushback onto stand!
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Any news, by the way, on a possible VIE route ? Currently LCY is running a cusotmer survey on the website again. Given that all previous surveys have led to new routes (CPH, ARN, NCL, LBA, MIL), I would guess that something is already going on.
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was flying out of lcy yest to edh,had 73 of us penned in the gate.are they going to make these area,s bigger?was quite clostro in there yest.....oh and was held over southend for 15 mins as well on the way back........oh hum.....
Edit: Please refrain from using text speak on PPRuNe it is uneccessary and we think childish. Next example gets deleted.
Edit: Please refrain from using text speak on PPRuNe it is uneccessary and we think childish. Next example gets deleted.
Last edited by PPRuNe Pop; 16th Mar 2006 at 21:29.
