LUTON
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With the introduction of the IOM schedule from 24 Nov, Aer Arann will be operating some 80 flights weekly to/from LTN, with 6200+ seats. Not bad from the initial start of a daily ATR42 from GWY a couple of years ago.
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It needs Council Officers to be knowledgable of the Act and to have the confidence to succesfully implement the Act where situations deserve.
This is from a train enthusiast:
So it would be sensible if LLAO discussed with other train operators whether - subject to track capacity - additional services to/from Parkway could utilise the link at Cricklewood so as to facilitate direct train access to Luton from 'southwest of the Thames' and the southwestern Home Counties.
Any fellow railway
care to comment...??
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I recall many years ago going on a football special direct from Luton to Bristol by train, so the lines were once there to link onto the Paddington line. A certain famous Eric from Harpenden sat in the first class seats.
I must have missed this being announced? I found this out via a friend that likes to ski! From the dates of the first flight, I guess the route has been delayed or will not happen?
http://www.kaernten.at/?page=_HP&sri...O&typ=_content
&
http://www.carinthia-info.at/?arid=8...id=en&SIid=135
I must have missed this being announced? I found this out via a friend that likes to ski! From the dates of the first flight, I guess the route has been delayed or will not happen?
http://www.kaernten.at/?page=_HP&sri...O&typ=_content
&
http://www.carinthia-info.at/?arid=8...id=en&SIid=135
Last edited by Buster the Bear; 29th Oct 2005 at 11:10.
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With the introduction of the IOM schedule from 24 Nov, Aer Arann will be operating some 80 flights weekly to/from LTN, with 6200+ seats. Not bad from the initial start of a daily ATR42 from GWY a couple of years ago.
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Jo Public comments on the expansion plans for the airport can be found by scrolling down the page at http://www.bbc.co.uk/threecounties/c..._feature.shtml
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Their plans include more routes into Luton.
Styrian Spirit are going through a few changes at the moment but I think the Klagenfurt - Luton is still likely to happen but could be delayed until January. We shall see what transpires.
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This info is from the financial year 2002/2003 but shows that Luton Airport Parkway was the 173rd busiest station in the UK out of 2496 stations and ahead of airport stations like Manchester but far behind Gatwick and Stansted. Not bad seeing that the station was then only 4 years old. http://www.sra.gov.uk/pubs2/performa...stat_usage.exc
Future plans for this station include some sort of monorail/ people mover which will terminate on the opposite side of the tracks to the existing station. I don’t know what happened to the trial using bendy busses which in my eyes was a big success as the existing buses just can’t cope with demand.
Future plans for this station include some sort of monorail/ people mover which will terminate on the opposite side of the tracks to the existing station. I don’t know what happened to the trial using bendy busses which in my eyes was a big success as the existing buses just can’t cope with demand.
Last edited by LTNman; 29th Oct 2005 at 21:25.
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As I have said, time and time again, Cork was a success in the late 80's, I see see no reason why it would not work again for someone? Add Kerry to the list as well.
Maybe Arann (or another) should look to France and the ex-pats/second home owner destinations. Dinard was going well until pulled back into Essex.
Carinthian Spirit I believe they are re-branding as?
Maybe Arann (or another) should look to France and the ex-pats/second home owner destinations. Dinard was going well until pulled back into Essex.
Carinthian Spirit I believe they are re-branding as?
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The problem for Arran is that if they make a success of flying into say Cork from Luton then Ryanair will start to fly the route. Ryanair could well start to fly the route anyway without Arran’s help.
Aer Arran are better off flying into airports with sub 6000ft runways where Ryanair can’t go. Anyway who is saying that future routes will be using Irish based aircraft.
I have heard that Jersey might be getting a year round service again together with Lorient. Jersey could well also suit BMI as they have spare lunchtime capacity from Luton from next February for a single rotation and already operate into Jersey from other UK airports.
Aer Arran are better off flying into airports with sub 6000ft runways where Ryanair can’t go. Anyway who is saying that future routes will be using Irish based aircraft.
I have heard that Jersey might be getting a year round service again together with Lorient. Jersey could well also suit BMI as they have spare lunchtime capacity from Luton from next February for a single rotation and already operate into Jersey from other UK airports.
Last edited by LTNman; 30th Oct 2005 at 04:53.
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[QUOTE]I have heard that Jersey might be getting a year round service again
With Thomsonfly now starting sch ops from LTN in May, maybe they would look at JER for the future. with a 737. They already fly the route from CVT & DSA. Have to agree though, BMI would be a much more likely choice with a daily EMB145, mid-morning, in between the BRU ops.
Lorient with Aer Arrann would be useful.
With Thomsonfly now starting sch ops from LTN in May, maybe they would look at JER for the future. with a 737. They already fly the route from CVT & DSA. Have to agree though, BMI would be a much more likely choice with a daily EMB145, mid-morning, in between the BRU ops.
Lorient with Aer Arrann would be useful.
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So will Luton Hoo be overflown from the new runway, I am not too sure that the developers of this ex stately home will be too impressed?
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It is very much back on. The hotel group have now got approval to convert the building to a luxury 5 star, 120 bedroom country hotel. Conversion starts in the new year. I believe the cheapest room will be £180 per night, rising up to £750 per night. First residents due in late 2007. Guess some to the prospective clients might be a little concerned of ongoing airport developlment only a few hundred yards away.
Last edited by Powerjet1; 30th Oct 2005 at 13:33.
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COMMENT: London Luton Airport from http://www.abtn.co.uk/
WILL four times as many passengers use Luton in 2030 as pass through it now? The Government and the airport certainly think so, and proposals have just been unveiled to meet this fourfold increase in demand.
In a 10-point outline of Project 2030, the airport’s managing director Kathryn James and Luton South MP Margaret Moran talked of the need for responsible growth and a necessity to meet predicted future demand.
They also tied the airport’s development to providing a new terminal and runway in time for London hosting the 2012 Olympics.
The highlights are:
Development will only happen when necessary.
A planning application for Project 2030 – Phase 1 will be submitted in early 2006. This includes extra aircraft stands, terminal extension, car parking and taxiway extension. Work completed by end of 2007.
A second planning application for Project 2030 - Phase 2 will be made in late 2006/early 2007. This will include a replacement runway, a new South Terminal, additional aircraft stands and a new fire station and control tower.
A new Reception Centre.
The existing runway will be maintained for use during emergencies and whilst essential maintenance is completed on the replacement runway.
The airport intends to open the replacement runway and new terminal for operation in 2012, in time for the Olympics.
Additional satellite piers and aircraft stands will be built incrementally in the period around 2015.
Development of office, warehousing, light industrial, engineering, hotel, flight catering and other facilities.
A number of surface access improvements.
An integrated package of surface access measures for airport users and the wider community.
But will all this planned development really be needed and which airlines will provide the massive increase in passenger numbers. With Stansted, Heathrow and Gatwick all planning major development, why should people in the south-east choose to go to Luton for their flights? Currently, the airport only has eight scheduled airlines operating from it and of these four are committed low-cost carriers, two are more or less charters and two are regional flyers.
Surely the airport needs to attract major long-haul carriers, not just its long-haul charter carriers, and more mainstream short-haul airlines to see the growth it thinks it will get. And it can’t just be a low-cost hub, as all predictions point to a major consolidation in that particular sector in the near future. So why would airlines pick Luton as a base from which to fly city pairs and give the airport its huge anticipated boost in passengers.
It certainly has room for expansion and there is a willingness from Government to help it reach its potential, unlike the London airports which rival it and which some MPs think should be opened up to more competition by the breaking up of BAA. So airlines could find the lounges, check-in desks and facilities they need through expansion of Luton, but would they find the passengers?
Like it or not, Luton still suffers from being the poor relation of the five London airports and the impression is that it takes forever to get there and it is still a charter or low-cost airport. All of the other London airports offer more scheduled flights to major European or worldwide destinations, and there is no reason why this will change in the future. And with all the airlines having already invested heavily in alternative London airports, why would they up sticks and move to Bedfordshire.
Of the airlines currently operating from there, major growth is obviously focused on Easyjet. After all, it was this airline which made Luton what it is today and allowed it to shed its exclusively charter image. Sure, the airline will grow at Luton, but who’s to say what will happen in the low-cost sector in the future or even if Easyjet will remain independently-owned. And unless the carrier decides to go global, its short-haul network is finite. So, with a great fanfare, Luton announced its intentions to the world, but the hard work starts now to convince airlines to back it, passengers to support it and the investment to prove its worth.
WILL four times as many passengers use Luton in 2030 as pass through it now? The Government and the airport certainly think so, and proposals have just been unveiled to meet this fourfold increase in demand.
In a 10-point outline of Project 2030, the airport’s managing director Kathryn James and Luton South MP Margaret Moran talked of the need for responsible growth and a necessity to meet predicted future demand.
They also tied the airport’s development to providing a new terminal and runway in time for London hosting the 2012 Olympics.
The highlights are:
Development will only happen when necessary.
A planning application for Project 2030 – Phase 1 will be submitted in early 2006. This includes extra aircraft stands, terminal extension, car parking and taxiway extension. Work completed by end of 2007.
A second planning application for Project 2030 - Phase 2 will be made in late 2006/early 2007. This will include a replacement runway, a new South Terminal, additional aircraft stands and a new fire station and control tower.
A new Reception Centre.
The existing runway will be maintained for use during emergencies and whilst essential maintenance is completed on the replacement runway.
The airport intends to open the replacement runway and new terminal for operation in 2012, in time for the Olympics.
Additional satellite piers and aircraft stands will be built incrementally in the period around 2015.
Development of office, warehousing, light industrial, engineering, hotel, flight catering and other facilities.
A number of surface access improvements.
An integrated package of surface access measures for airport users and the wider community.
But will all this planned development really be needed and which airlines will provide the massive increase in passenger numbers. With Stansted, Heathrow and Gatwick all planning major development, why should people in the south-east choose to go to Luton for their flights? Currently, the airport only has eight scheduled airlines operating from it and of these four are committed low-cost carriers, two are more or less charters and two are regional flyers.
Surely the airport needs to attract major long-haul carriers, not just its long-haul charter carriers, and more mainstream short-haul airlines to see the growth it thinks it will get. And it can’t just be a low-cost hub, as all predictions point to a major consolidation in that particular sector in the near future. So why would airlines pick Luton as a base from which to fly city pairs and give the airport its huge anticipated boost in passengers.
It certainly has room for expansion and there is a willingness from Government to help it reach its potential, unlike the London airports which rival it and which some MPs think should be opened up to more competition by the breaking up of BAA. So airlines could find the lounges, check-in desks and facilities they need through expansion of Luton, but would they find the passengers?
Like it or not, Luton still suffers from being the poor relation of the five London airports and the impression is that it takes forever to get there and it is still a charter or low-cost airport. All of the other London airports offer more scheduled flights to major European or worldwide destinations, and there is no reason why this will change in the future. And with all the airlines having already invested heavily in alternative London airports, why would they up sticks and move to Bedfordshire.
Of the airlines currently operating from there, major growth is obviously focused on Easyjet. After all, it was this airline which made Luton what it is today and allowed it to shed its exclusively charter image. Sure, the airline will grow at Luton, but who’s to say what will happen in the low-cost sector in the future or even if Easyjet will remain independently-owned. And unless the carrier decides to go global, its short-haul network is finite. So, with a great fanfare, Luton announced its intentions to the world, but the hard work starts now to convince airlines to back it, passengers to support it and the investment to prove its worth.
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LTNman told us in an earlier thread: "after tax and after paying Luton Council £11.8m in fees the airport made 16p profit per passenger in 2004".
ebenezer responded: "Agreed - but this still represents a net profit of around £1.2m for 2004/05."
When it's time to spend the bulk of the £1.5bn for the new works, and passenger numbers might have doubled, the Airport might expect to be clearing a profit of £2.4m a year. But at that rate it would take over 600 years to recoup the cost of the works - which just doesn't add up.
However, if the airport pocketed the concession fee itself (because the new airport would no longer be on the Council's land), its annual profit could be as much as £26m. At that rate it would recoup the cost of the works in just under 60 years.
It remains to be seen whether anyone really would be prepared to invest over that timescale anyway, but it doesn't look as though the Council will be seeing much of its concession fee in the years ahead.
Or am I missing something?
ebenezer responded: "Agreed - but this still represents a net profit of around £1.2m for 2004/05."
When it's time to spend the bulk of the £1.5bn for the new works, and passenger numbers might have doubled, the Airport might expect to be clearing a profit of £2.4m a year. But at that rate it would take over 600 years to recoup the cost of the works - which just doesn't add up.
However, if the airport pocketed the concession fee itself (because the new airport would no longer be on the Council's land), its annual profit could be as much as £26m. At that rate it would recoup the cost of the works in just under 60 years.
It remains to be seen whether anyone really would be prepared to invest over that timescale anyway, but it doesn't look as though the Council will be seeing much of its concession fee in the years ahead.
Or am I missing something?
Paxing All Over The World
LTNman
Selecting Pedant mode, I think that the area you refer to is part of the Dunstable Downs? They start with Whipsnade? The Chilterns ends at (approx) the A4146, Hemel Hempstead to Leighton Buzzard road?
My Ordnance Survey shows that road some 11.5kms to the South West of the present site. Perhaps a local Bear or other resident, has an accurate line of the meeting point of The Chiltern Hills and The Dunstable Downs.
--------------------
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
all set in rolling Chiltern countryside
My Ordnance Survey shows that road some 11.5kms to the South West of the present site. Perhaps a local Bear or other resident, has an accurate line of the meeting point of The Chiltern Hills and The Dunstable Downs.
--------------------
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
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The Chilterns
The Chilterns start in Oxfordshire and end at Hitchin. Map here http://www.chilternsaonb.org/map3.html
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Luton Hoo, you should trust Buster, it will have a never noisy golf course!
Luton Borough Council own the airport and concession out its operation. Originally this was taken up by Airports Group International, they were bought by TBI who have recently been taken over by a Spanish consortium.
Unless the new operator has found a loophole to operate a new runway on non LBC land, thus creating a 'new' airport, the concession will still be in place.
The concession paid LBC a reputed £1.43 for every single passenger, not inc special deals.
The concession has under 20 years to run and I would anticipate this either being re-negotiated and extended, or for a bid to be tabled to buy LBC out?
Politically, LBC is a rather different animal to the red one that agreed to the concession, so may have an alternative agenda, but I doubt this.
The airport is a massive income subsidy for an authority having cuts made to its budgets. Since the concession was approved, LBC has been taking huge amounts of cash from the airport, but I do believe they re-invested some of their income into recent infrastructure projects, thus off-setting some of the concession payments?
Dunstable Down's is part of the Chiltern Hills. I have never associated The Hill that is the airport, as being part of the Chiltern's, but accoridng to folk that know these things, it extends through Luton onward to Hitchin, where it finishes. The airport part is not considered to be an Area of Oustanding Natural Beauty however, unlike me in my bear palace!
Luton Borough Council own the airport and concession out its operation. Originally this was taken up by Airports Group International, they were bought by TBI who have recently been taken over by a Spanish consortium.
Unless the new operator has found a loophole to operate a new runway on non LBC land, thus creating a 'new' airport, the concession will still be in place.
The concession paid LBC a reputed £1.43 for every single passenger, not inc special deals.
The concession has under 20 years to run and I would anticipate this either being re-negotiated and extended, or for a bid to be tabled to buy LBC out?
Politically, LBC is a rather different animal to the red one that agreed to the concession, so may have an alternative agenda, but I doubt this.
The airport is a massive income subsidy for an authority having cuts made to its budgets. Since the concession was approved, LBC has been taking huge amounts of cash from the airport, but I do believe they re-invested some of their income into recent infrastructure projects, thus off-setting some of the concession payments?
Dunstable Down's is part of the Chiltern Hills. I have never associated The Hill that is the airport, as being part of the Chiltern's, but accoridng to folk that know these things, it extends through Luton onward to Hitchin, where it finishes. The airport part is not considered to be an Area of Oustanding Natural Beauty however, unlike me in my bear palace!
Last edited by Buster the Bear; 30th Oct 2005 at 19:19.
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Buster, isn't this the whole point?
All the new development - new terminal, new runway, etc. - will be built on land that is outside the current boundary of the airport and is therefore outside the area covered by the concession agreement.
What right would the Council have to raise a levy on passengers that use the new privately-owned facilities that have been built on privately-owned land?
Not only that - but the old Council-owned airport would not be able to continue as a separate operation so close to the new airport, so the Council must surely lose out.
It looks as though Luton will lose its lucrative levy and lose its airport as well. Will the Councillors really just sit back and watch their airport being 'stolen' from under their noses?
All the new development - new terminal, new runway, etc. - will be built on land that is outside the current boundary of the airport and is therefore outside the area covered by the concession agreement.
What right would the Council have to raise a levy on passengers that use the new privately-owned facilities that have been built on privately-owned land?
Not only that - but the old Council-owned airport would not be able to continue as a separate operation so close to the new airport, so the Council must surely lose out.
It looks as though Luton will lose its lucrative levy and lose its airport as well. Will the Councillors really just sit back and watch their airport being 'stolen' from under their noses?
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So assuming that planning approval is given by which ever local authority that owns the land south side and a deal is struck with them, LBC will only get the income from passengers crossing the new 'boundary'?
Okay assuming again that this is a mere formality, you then have two seperate airports with a new runway that cannot be operated from whilst the one in Luton, Beds is operational!
Not a problem for LBC, they do a St Mawgen and charge everyone accessing the site from thier land a surcharge?
Seriously, do the new airport operators seriously think that they can build a new runway without consent from LBC and thier Westminster peers and then operate it with no regard to the concession that they have with LBC?
If so, BLIMEY, I cannot wait for the fireworks as there are (or I thought that there were) robust clauses within the Concession to automatically bring it back under LBC control should an operator forefit on its contractual obligations.
2012, more like 2112 once this lot were to go to a public, then legal high court/EU battle!
If ACDL are basing thier case for a new runway on not paying the concession charge, then........I wish them good luck.
Okay assuming again that this is a mere formality, you then have two seperate airports with a new runway that cannot be operated from whilst the one in Luton, Beds is operational!
Not a problem for LBC, they do a St Mawgen and charge everyone accessing the site from thier land a surcharge?
Seriously, do the new airport operators seriously think that they can build a new runway without consent from LBC and thier Westminster peers and then operate it with no regard to the concession that they have with LBC?
If so, BLIMEY, I cannot wait for the fireworks as there are (or I thought that there were) robust clauses within the Concession to automatically bring it back under LBC control should an operator forefit on its contractual obligations.
2012, more like 2112 once this lot were to go to a public, then legal high court/EU battle!
If ACDL are basing thier case for a new runway on not paying the concession charge, then........I wish them good luck.