Gate Gourmet (merged)
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whattimedoweland,
Have to say that I agree with your comments. In no way can BA be blamed for the mickey mouse management of GG. I have to also say that BA have done themselves little favour by putting all their eggs in one basket and appointing one sole supplier for all their flights....it may be that GG now have BA over a barrel!!
AVeight
Have to say that I agree with your comments. In no way can BA be blamed for the mickey mouse management of GG. I have to also say that BA have done themselves little favour by putting all their eggs in one basket and appointing one sole supplier for all their flights....it may be that GG now have BA over a barrel!!
AVeight
Why on EARTH would BA want to repurchase an outfit that's leaking red ink? And why would they want to import an industrial relations problem of this magnitude?
Shareholders should be asking the following questions
1 - Given the extreme dependency on a single-source supplier, why didn't BA's management work towards a win-win solution with GG?
2 - Why weren't BA's management aware of the situation at GG and why didn't they intervene to avoid it?
3 - Why didn't BA have contingency plans in place?
Useful article from the Economist here,
Shareholders should be asking the following questions
1 - Given the extreme dependency on a single-source supplier, why didn't BA's management work towards a win-win solution with GG?
2 - Why weren't BA's management aware of the situation at GG and why didn't they intervene to avoid it?
3 - Why didn't BA have contingency plans in place?
Useful article from the Economist here,
Join Date: Nov 2003
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£6.50 / hour
T&G work practices (full days pay for half a days work at GG
Not having a go - just confused, surely it must be one or the other?
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Hooded the whole idea of administration is to allow a company to be taken over swiftly, if appropriate. It is basically "business as normal", with a team of insolvency "specialists" temporarily taking the helm. Not the same as "receivership".
However, for BA to make the "buy" decision might take a long time!
However, for BA to make the "buy" decision might take a long time!
Usual disclaimers apply!
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.........................T&G work practices (full days pay for half a days work at GG
What I do find interesting however is the news of BA board members sold some share options the day before the dispute.
I work in the telecommunications industry and have a fair bit of experience of outsourcing. We outsourced our catering but then that wasnt integral to our product or brand reputation.
We also outsourced things like Payroll and cleaning etc and finance and catering companies etc outsource their telecoms services to us.
I cannot believe that a large modern corporation like BA wh basically have a well respected brand and a range of products that on world standards are good ( they are not the best but they are much better than most) has managed to find itself held hostage to fortune in this way.
It is bad enough going through the grief of the last few weeks without finding themselves having to pay more for a proven sub standard service with very fragile future prospects and almost assured labour difficulties due to the management style.
It is incredible that so called professional managers could do this. Even if they thought they were outsourcing the management problems they allegedly had with their own in house catering and if RE wasnt going Iwould be surprised if their were not calls for his head and justifiably so.
Outsourcing can work very well in all industries but in recent years people have learned that you never ever outsource to a company that is unstable and certainly not for anything that is either mission critical or brand damaging.
As it was explained to me once in the context of a marriage . If you are a man and you are very busy by all means outsource some traditional male marital duties like the gardening and decorating but you dont pay someone else to sleep with your wife.
PB
We also outsourced things like Payroll and cleaning etc and finance and catering companies etc outsource their telecoms services to us.
I cannot believe that a large modern corporation like BA wh basically have a well respected brand and a range of products that on world standards are good ( they are not the best but they are much better than most) has managed to find itself held hostage to fortune in this way.
It is bad enough going through the grief of the last few weeks without finding themselves having to pay more for a proven sub standard service with very fragile future prospects and almost assured labour difficulties due to the management style.
It is incredible that so called professional managers could do this. Even if they thought they were outsourcing the management problems they allegedly had with their own in house catering and if RE wasnt going Iwould be surprised if their were not calls for his head and justifiably so.
Outsourcing can work very well in all industries but in recent years people have learned that you never ever outsource to a company that is unstable and certainly not for anything that is either mission critical or brand damaging.
As it was explained to me once in the context of a marriage . If you are a man and you are very busy by all means outsource some traditional male marital duties like the gardening and decorating but you dont pay someone else to sleep with your wife.
PB
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i hope that BA dont cave in, with all due respect, the 'militant' actions in my opinion would have been enough to say 'screw it', who else is there who can provide us with what we are looking for.
Good luck BA
Good luck BA
How could they have been so silly as to single source it ....
Indeed, how could they have been so silly ....
Well, management are incentivised for profitability and increased dividends. And profitability this year, not at some date 10 years down the line.
Back in 1997 Bob Ayling (remember him) and crew were looking to get some increase in the finances by selling off the catering arm. So what was it worth ?
As it stood, not a lot. 5 times annual profits (not much) plus the scrap value of the equipment that wasn't just leased. Not much there either. Say £1m.
OK. But sell the business with a contract to supply some BA meals for the next 5 years. Now you could get £10m as the buyer can see guaranteed revenue.
What about a longer contract, for the next 10 years. Now it's worth £25m.
And what about an EXCLUSIVE contract for the next 10 years, keeping any competitor from growing at Heathrow. Now it's worth £50m.
OK Mr Ayling, we can have either £1m, £10m, £25m or £50m in cash for catering. Which one do you want ? Which reflects most in your bonus for this year. By the way, you are off at the end of this year, aren't you ....
Any problems they stacked up for the future are completely by the by.
Many shares in companies like BA are held by pension funds, who are under constant pressure to report maximum CURRENT YEAR income from their investments. It all got solemnly reported in league tables in 1997 as "Good/Bad investment profits by pension funds", in the same newspapers who are currently criticising the BA single-sourcing. Again futures are someone else's problem. So that's why Bob Ayling was on the incentive deal he was on. The pension funds in turn were paying out pensions to those who wanted the maximum cash return in the current year. Quite possibly half the pensioners being paid out by a pension fund in 1997 are dead now and therefore couldn't have cared less about any long-term future problems.
Well, management are incentivised for profitability and increased dividends. And profitability this year, not at some date 10 years down the line.
Back in 1997 Bob Ayling (remember him) and crew were looking to get some increase in the finances by selling off the catering arm. So what was it worth ?
As it stood, not a lot. 5 times annual profits (not much) plus the scrap value of the equipment that wasn't just leased. Not much there either. Say £1m.
OK. But sell the business with a contract to supply some BA meals for the next 5 years. Now you could get £10m as the buyer can see guaranteed revenue.
What about a longer contract, for the next 10 years. Now it's worth £25m.
And what about an EXCLUSIVE contract for the next 10 years, keeping any competitor from growing at Heathrow. Now it's worth £50m.
OK Mr Ayling, we can have either £1m, £10m, £25m or £50m in cash for catering. Which one do you want ? Which reflects most in your bonus for this year. By the way, you are off at the end of this year, aren't you ....
Any problems they stacked up for the future are completely by the by.
Many shares in companies like BA are held by pension funds, who are under constant pressure to report maximum CURRENT YEAR income from their investments. It all got solemnly reported in league tables in 1997 as "Good/Bad investment profits by pension funds", in the same newspapers who are currently criticising the BA single-sourcing. Again futures are someone else's problem. So that's why Bob Ayling was on the incentive deal he was on. The pension funds in turn were paying out pensions to those who wanted the maximum cash return in the current year. Quite possibly half the pensioners being paid out by a pension fund in 1997 are dead now and therefore couldn't have cared less about any long-term future problems.
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Firstly as an exec member of many years standing, I must say that someone should consider prosecuting Gate "Gourmet" under the trades description act. The Business class food is amongst the worst I have encountered.
Secondly I find myself on the one hand sympathising with BAs present predicament, having been held to ransom and having been subjected to illegal and completely unjustifiable secondary strike action.
However, I also believe that to a very large extent, they are vcitims of their own corporate greed, in having outsourced an element of their business which is central to their image as a full service carrier.
Whilst I have to date stuck with BA over this difficult period, (and to be fair been credited with a big chunk of BA airmiles for having done so), I must warn them that my patience and that of other regulars is limited. I could tolerate the loss of my translatlantic done to death filet steak, but I would struggle without the bar which is generally pretty good.
Maybe it is time for big corporations like BA to start taking back responsibility for its own services. As a paying customer, my contract is with BA not GG. I am getting increasingly fed up with the excuse, that its not our fault due ATC, Airport authority, baggage handler catere etc etc over whom we have no control. GET CONTROL!!
Secondly I find myself on the one hand sympathising with BAs present predicament, having been held to ransom and having been subjected to illegal and completely unjustifiable secondary strike action.
However, I also believe that to a very large extent, they are vcitims of their own corporate greed, in having outsourced an element of their business which is central to their image as a full service carrier.
Whilst I have to date stuck with BA over this difficult period, (and to be fair been credited with a big chunk of BA airmiles for having done so), I must warn them that my patience and that of other regulars is limited. I could tolerate the loss of my translatlantic done to death filet steak, but I would struggle without the bar which is generally pretty good.
Maybe it is time for big corporations like BA to start taking back responsibility for its own services. As a paying customer, my contract is with BA not GG. I am getting increasingly fed up with the excuse, that its not our fault due ATC, Airport authority, baggage handler catere etc etc over whom we have no control. GET CONTROL!!
ropey pilot - this is how it works.
GG pay low hourly rate, but agree job and finish with staff.
this means for example a driver on an 8 hour shift being rostered to do say 4 deliveries. if he finishes in 4 hours, he`s off. if GG want him to stay to do an extra run, they have to guarantee him 4 hours at overtime rate.
all very 1970`s, and all very well if you are making big profits. but if you are losing £500k per week, you need to sort these (inherited from BA) practices out.
surely it would be better to negotiate a slightly better hourly rate with staff, in exchange for more up to date working practices. but of course staff (and unions) dont want to give any ground.
GG staff need to wake up, we are 30 years on from this type of thing.
GG pay low hourly rate, but agree job and finish with staff.
this means for example a driver on an 8 hour shift being rostered to do say 4 deliveries. if he finishes in 4 hours, he`s off. if GG want him to stay to do an extra run, they have to guarantee him 4 hours at overtime rate.
all very 1970`s, and all very well if you are making big profits. but if you are losing £500k per week, you need to sort these (inherited from BA) practices out.
surely it would be better to negotiate a slightly better hourly rate with staff, in exchange for more up to date working practices. but of course staff (and unions) dont want to give any ground.
GG staff need to wake up, we are 30 years on from this type of thing.
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Not completely up to speed with all that has happened etc so could someone tell me how workers on an hourly rate get a full days pay for half a days work?
Not having a go - just confused, surely it must be one or the other?
Not having a go - just confused, surely it must be one or the other?
Also if one section in the plant finishes, there is absolutely no helping other sections who are behind/overloaded; this then leads to some staff standing around whilst others are paid overtime.
These appalling working practices have been both inherited from BA (under TUPE) and also grown up during the ongoing operation. AIUI, GG has to provide food to BA for free if the delivery is 15 minutes late - it is therefore (in the short term) easier to give and and/or buy off militant or stroppy staff rather than make the loss.
BTW, the ST article quotes GG as saying that they are losing £ 500K per DAY.
Far from £6.50/hr, the article quotes the drivers on £20-25K pa
edited to say just beaten to it by cjhants
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Funny old thing, the GG drivers work the same way as the BA bus and tug drivers. Done you're quota of jobs for the day? Best knock off early then! Nice work (if you can call it that) if you can get it.
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Seems a lot of discussion about why BA outsourced it's catering. Just curious to know how many other airlines operating out of Heathrow do their own catering or own the company that does it for them? Also what are the other airlines that used Gate Gourmet doing for their catering, or was BA GG's only contract and therefore they are just as guilty of putting all their eggs in one basket.
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First BA will dump Gate Gourmet and then support a viable replacement...but certainly not take them over.
Then when things are settled down, they will deal with the employees who seem to have loyalty only to themselves and the T&G. My belief is that within a year the whole LHR "bag loaders and drivers" will be sold off. Whatever the redundancy costs are, it has to be cheaper than this annual "display".
Thank heavens I am booked Virgin Upper Class next week!
Then when things are settled down, they will deal with the employees who seem to have loyalty only to themselves and the T&G. My belief is that within a year the whole LHR "bag loaders and drivers" will be sold off. Whatever the redundancy costs are, it has to be cheaper than this annual "display".
Thank heavens I am booked Virgin Upper Class next week!
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AIUI, part of GG's problem is that a few months ago, Virgin didn't renew their contract and went to LSG Skychefs. This has left GG overmanned since they lost this major contract.
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Hows about BA dump GG now - fit microwaves instead of ovens and contract the major supermarket chains to supply TV dinners? (contract several so that you are not tied to one supplier with the resultant probs we see with GG)
Marks and Sparks could supply First,
Waitrose could supply Club,
Sainsbury's WT Plus
and dear old Tesco's down the back
Face it whatever they supply has got to be better than the muck GG turn out.
Oh and the boys in Engineering will do the booze cruise to Calais to supply the drinks!
Now where's Willie?
Marks and Sparks could supply First,
Waitrose could supply Club,
Sainsbury's WT Plus
and dear old Tesco's down the back
Face it whatever they supply has got to be better than the muck GG turn out.
Oh and the boys in Engineering will do the booze cruise to Calais to supply the drinks!
Now where's Willie?
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TOPBUNK
When a low paid catering worker goes on strike they are 'militant'. So if a 'top of the' ladder pilot goes on strike how are they described?.Just a thought.
Also Topbunk maybe you or one of the frustrated Heathrow based pilots from any airline please explain to Charlie32 how you,I and everyone else gets frustrated with ATC at LHR and why we have NO control over them.C32 maybe you can join our Leadership team and show them how to do it.You may still struggle with weather delays unless you know someone in VERY high places!!. Charlie 32 ,after 6-10 days away from my wife and kids I want to get home as much as you so I understand your point but as an Exec Card holder do you think that BA and other airlines burn expensive fuel in the hold waiting to land for fun and in turn put your/company's ticket fare up?!!.
LOU,,
You may want to ask the cheesed off Virgin Cabin crew about their generous 3-4% offer from SRB and Co and their plans as crew!!. Where are you flying to?,is there a third carrier?!!.Only joking, have a good flight
.
WTDWL.
When a low paid catering worker goes on strike they are 'militant'. So if a 'top of the' ladder pilot goes on strike how are they described?.Just a thought.
Also Topbunk maybe you or one of the frustrated Heathrow based pilots from any airline please explain to Charlie32 how you,I and everyone else gets frustrated with ATC at LHR and why we have NO control over them.C32 maybe you can join our Leadership team and show them how to do it.You may still struggle with weather delays unless you know someone in VERY high places!!. Charlie 32 ,after 6-10 days away from my wife and kids I want to get home as much as you so I understand your point but as an Exec Card holder do you think that BA and other airlines burn expensive fuel in the hold waiting to land for fun and in turn put your/company's ticket fare up?!!.
LOU,,
You may want to ask the cheesed off Virgin Cabin crew about their generous 3-4% offer from SRB and Co and their plans as crew!!. Where are you flying to?,is there a third carrier?!!.Only joking, have a good flight
.WTDWL.
Last edited by whattimedoweland; 23rd Aug 2005 at 19:07.
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whattimedoweland:
You may be right! I'm secretly hoping that Virgin will make a fantastic bid for my two tickets so they can re-sell to some businessman who must travel!
Mrs Scannon always takes crisps to the airport just in case!
You may be right! I'm secretly hoping that Virgin will make a fantastic bid for my two tickets so they can re-sell to some businessman who must travel!
Mrs Scannon always takes crisps to the airport just in case!