BA Unofficial Strike ( Merged)
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Maybe, this is one way of getting more BA Longhaul flights from UK Regional Airports.
Well Done BA LHR Ground Staff, I think/hope you have just shot yourselves in the foot.
Where's Maggie when you need her?
Well Done BA LHR Ground Staff, I think/hope you have just shot yourselves in the foot.
Where's Maggie when you need her?
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Rainboe
My comment was not foolish but deadly serious. I am not in any way a BA hater - I actually feel totally frustrated on behalf of their management and so sorry for those employees who have grasped the seriousness of the battle they are involved in and are trying to make it work. As stated above, market forces will kick in here and you are in a battle involving the survival of the fittest. I think I am correct in saying this is the third successive summer of disruptions at BA and there can be only one result - ruin to the company.
I am intimately acquainted with the T&G having started life as a compulsory member of the Union under the old 'closed shop' laws. They have successfully managed to bring ruin on just about every industry they have been involved with and now seek to do so at BA. If the ground staff at BA do not wake up pretty sharpish there will be no company left to hold to ransom and then the T&G can add another 'victory' to its battle honours. The tragedy is that responsible unions have so much to offer against unscrupulous management. You can only rob the golden goose for so long and then it croaks.
This industry is driven by market forces and people go to whoever gives the best service. If you know that every Summer you travel with BA there is a good chance of your plans being destroyed by random strike action, then what will you do? You fly with someone else. No kidding - it is that simple! And do you know an amazing thing? When it all goes up in a puff of smoke, there will be no one more astonished than the T&G.
My comment was not foolish but deadly serious. I am not in any way a BA hater - I actually feel totally frustrated on behalf of their management and so sorry for those employees who have grasped the seriousness of the battle they are involved in and are trying to make it work. As stated above, market forces will kick in here and you are in a battle involving the survival of the fittest. I think I am correct in saying this is the third successive summer of disruptions at BA and there can be only one result - ruin to the company.
I am intimately acquainted with the T&G having started life as a compulsory member of the Union under the old 'closed shop' laws. They have successfully managed to bring ruin on just about every industry they have been involved with and now seek to do so at BA. If the ground staff at BA do not wake up pretty sharpish there will be no company left to hold to ransom and then the T&G can add another 'victory' to its battle honours. The tragedy is that responsible unions have so much to offer against unscrupulous management. You can only rob the golden goose for so long and then it croaks.
This industry is driven by market forces and people go to whoever gives the best service. If you know that every Summer you travel with BA there is a good chance of your plans being destroyed by random strike action, then what will you do? You fly with someone else. No kidding - it is that simple! And do you know an amazing thing? When it all goes up in a puff of smoke, there will be no one more astonished than the T&G.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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My observations (as regular BA pax):
The workshy wankers who drive (sorry, supposed to drive) the (often late to a/c) busses are due a hard kick up the arse. If they chose to voluntarily give up their jobs by not working, then good riddance.
Same goes for anyone else from chairman to apprentice. Baggage handlers (not just BA) are becoming synonymous with miners - industrially irrelevant. A commodity McJob type. If they want to make more of their lot, then start bloody well behaving like they deserve it.
BA is THE best airline in the world. Best fleet, best crew, best everything, that I as a customer see. I and my fellow travellers pay for it.
From the time 5 years ago that a BA captain had the aircraft searched because an Arab looking guy asked me to take a parcel from Moscow to LHR ( and some arse actually had it!!!), BA have proved themselves time and time again to me. I had never been so pleased to see a British person in my life. They took me seriously, they were grateful I had spoken up, and they "did the right thing".
The right thing now is to slap these morons down, and hard. It isn't their issue, but they are making it many other peoples' issue.
Yes, get rid of the poxy foreign tail art, and put back the Union Jack. I live in the US, and take pride in seeing BA a/c on the ground here, the 744s and 777s huge tailfin Union Jacks towering over the pathetic bankrupt MD80s and such. Take the same spirit and sort out the bad apples on the ramp at LHR. If they don't want to work, then stamp on them and employ someone who does.
I feel the right to say this, because I do not want to see another great advertisement for Great Britain tarnished by small minded slackers, tagging onto someone else's dirty laundry.
If BA are a bad employer on the ramp (I cant believe they are), then leave.
Just my 2 pence.
Bloody annoyed, and it doesnt really affect me!
Atlanta
The workshy wankers who drive (sorry, supposed to drive) the (often late to a/c) busses are due a hard kick up the arse. If they chose to voluntarily give up their jobs by not working, then good riddance.
Same goes for anyone else from chairman to apprentice. Baggage handlers (not just BA) are becoming synonymous with miners - industrially irrelevant. A commodity McJob type. If they want to make more of their lot, then start bloody well behaving like they deserve it.
BA is THE best airline in the world. Best fleet, best crew, best everything, that I as a customer see. I and my fellow travellers pay for it.
From the time 5 years ago that a BA captain had the aircraft searched because an Arab looking guy asked me to take a parcel from Moscow to LHR ( and some arse actually had it!!!), BA have proved themselves time and time again to me. I had never been so pleased to see a British person in my life. They took me seriously, they were grateful I had spoken up, and they "did the right thing".
The right thing now is to slap these morons down, and hard. It isn't their issue, but they are making it many other peoples' issue.
Yes, get rid of the poxy foreign tail art, and put back the Union Jack. I live in the US, and take pride in seeing BA a/c on the ground here, the 744s and 777s huge tailfin Union Jacks towering over the pathetic bankrupt MD80s and such. Take the same spirit and sort out the bad apples on the ramp at LHR. If they don't want to work, then stamp on them and employ someone who does.
I feel the right to say this, because I do not want to see another great advertisement for Great Britain tarnished by small minded slackers, tagging onto someone else's dirty laundry.
If BA are a bad employer on the ramp (I cant believe they are), then leave.
Just my 2 pence.
Bloody annoyed, and it doesnt really affect me!
Atlanta
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Pathetic, bankupt MD-80's eh? Let me tell you that you're beginning to see the same problems we have, "over there". I agree BA is a fine airline, but don't forget the employees make the airline, and management seeks to destroy that. Delta was once a fine airline too, on par with BA. Maybe we will meet your high standards one day again. Peace-
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As a corporate pilot I pax to and fro across the pond a couple of dozen times a year. For the last five years I have gone out of my way to avoid flying BA because of the constant threat of being stranded by one of their frequent wildcat strikes. How many thousands of other frequent fliers boycott BA because of this?
Do these crackpot leftwing unions have any idea how much they are costing BA ?
V1
Do these crackpot leftwing unions have any idea how much they are costing BA ?
V1
Hypocrisy rampant!
Professional Pilots scream blue murder about Pilots at Ryanair and elsewhere for accepting lower wages and conditions that devalue your own positions.
Yet when another group go on strike over exactly that -- replacement of permanent staff with seasonal/part time workers you scream at the strikers!
Let me ask you this. What happens when YOUR job is casualised/ made part time/ Contracted out/Outsourced????????????
Can any of you answer that?
Professional Pilots scream blue murder about Pilots at Ryanair and elsewhere for accepting lower wages and conditions that devalue your own positions.
Yet when another group go on strike over exactly that -- replacement of permanent staff with seasonal/part time workers you scream at the strikers!
Let me ask you this. What happens when YOUR job is casualised/ made part time/ Contracted out/Outsourced????????????
Can any of you answer that?
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Having watched the BBC coverage of the original dispute at Gate Gourmet, I was amazed to see that 99% of the workforce in view of the camera were, in fact, Sikhs.
Based on local experience here (where the better domestic carriers hire foreign executives), I would say that "Indian workforce" and "excellence in aviation" are terms that do not readily mix.
Based on local experience here (where the better domestic carriers hire foreign executives), I would say that "Indian workforce" and "excellence in aviation" are terms that do not readily mix.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Try to look at the big picture Sunfish.....for a change.
The number of passengers choosing to fly will determine the number of flights required. This in turn determines the level of staffing required at all operational levels. If someone like GG lost a large contract (like the Virgin instance) then they need less staff as they have less work to complete - obviously they have to reduce staff either by natural attrition or redundancy. However the company that won the contract will require more staff and so they will do one of two things - either hire more staff or make their existing underutilised staff work harder.
This is the case all the way down the chain - unions acting for GG are seeking to maintain a work force in excess of the level required instead of being proactive for members and facilitating the transfer of workers to those places where workers are required.
For pilots, outsourcing or subcontracting won't change the number of pilots required (a change in work conditions may do so). Don't let the reactions to changes in corporate practice cloud the fact that unions are focussing too much on maintaining staff levels instead of maintaining staff conditions.
The number of passengers choosing to fly will determine the number of flights required. This in turn determines the level of staffing required at all operational levels. If someone like GG lost a large contract (like the Virgin instance) then they need less staff as they have less work to complete - obviously they have to reduce staff either by natural attrition or redundancy. However the company that won the contract will require more staff and so they will do one of two things - either hire more staff or make their existing underutilised staff work harder.
This is the case all the way down the chain - unions acting for GG are seeking to maintain a work force in excess of the level required instead of being proactive for members and facilitating the transfer of workers to those places where workers are required.
For pilots, outsourcing or subcontracting won't change the number of pilots required (a change in work conditions may do so). Don't let the reactions to changes in corporate practice cloud the fact that unions are focussing too much on maintaining staff levels instead of maintaining staff conditions.
Perhaps it's simply that only that particular group of folks will work for such a paltry sum; cut-throat competition in the airline world means that higher pay levels cannot be afforded by the supplier unless the customer is prepared to pay more.
Does the same thing hold true for bag crunchers and bus drivers at Thiefrow?
Quite what is the connection between ba ground staff and Gate Gourmet?
Does the same thing hold true for bag crunchers and bus drivers at Thiefrow?
Quite what is the connection between ba ground staff and Gate Gourmet?
Leezyjet
Spot on - the last time I tried reversing a car with a small trailer attached I wrote off one of the tail-lights - jack knifed the trailer and crunch!!!!! Me, driving a push back tug - I don't think so.
Spot on - the last time I tried reversing a car with a small trailer attached I wrote off one of the tail-lights - jack knifed the trailer and crunch!!!!! Me, driving a push back tug - I don't think so.
YFC F/A
Fair point about BA looking after it's own but it's a question of priorities and above all looking after our customers. We had pax sleeping on the floor in T4 last night due to lack of hotel rooms while Flight Attendants (many of whom had cars at the airport and don't live a million miles away from LHR) were being found hotel rooms by overloaded ops staff.
Fair point about BA looking after it's own but it's a question of priorities and above all looking after our customers. We had pax sleeping on the floor in T4 last night due to lack of hotel rooms while Flight Attendants (many of whom had cars at the airport and don't live a million miles away from LHR) were being found hotel rooms by overloaded ops staff.
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frangatang
In Oz, we have legislation that permits companies to seek damages from the union(s) and individuals concerned.
TRADE PRACTICES ACT 1974 - SECT 45D
Secondary boycotts for the purpose of causing substantial loss or damage
(1)
In the circumstances specified in subsection_(3) or (4), a person must not, in concert with a second person, engage in conduct:
(a) that hinders or prevents:
(i) a third person supplying goods or services to a fourth person (who is not an employer of the first person or the second person); or
(ii) a third person acquiring goods or services from a fourth person (who is not an employer of the first person or the second person); and
(b) that is engaged in for the purpose, and would have or be likely to have the effect, of causing substantial loss or damage to the business of the fourth person.
Note 1: Conduct that would otherwise contravene this section can be authorised under subsection 88(7).
Note 2: This section also has effect subject to section_45DD, which deals with permitted boycotts.
(2)
A person is taken to engage in conduct for a purpose mentioned in subsection_(1) if the person engages in the conduct for purposes that include that purpose.
(3)
Subsection_(1) applies if the fourth person is a corporation.
(4)
Subsection_(1) also applies if:
(a) the third person is a corporation and the fourth person is not a corporation; and
(b) the conduct would have or be likely to have the effect of causing substantial loss or damage to the business of the third person.
Not sure what the UK statutory equivalent is, if any. But I note significant references in various acts to requirements for a ballot before strike action.
In Oz, we have legislation that permits companies to seek damages from the union(s) and individuals concerned.
TRADE PRACTICES ACT 1974 - SECT 45D
Secondary boycotts for the purpose of causing substantial loss or damage
(1)
In the circumstances specified in subsection_(3) or (4), a person must not, in concert with a second person, engage in conduct:
(a) that hinders or prevents:
(i) a third person supplying goods or services to a fourth person (who is not an employer of the first person or the second person); or
(ii) a third person acquiring goods or services from a fourth person (who is not an employer of the first person or the second person); and
(b) that is engaged in for the purpose, and would have or be likely to have the effect, of causing substantial loss or damage to the business of the fourth person.
Note 1: Conduct that would otherwise contravene this section can be authorised under subsection 88(7).
Note 2: This section also has effect subject to section_45DD, which deals with permitted boycotts.
(2)
A person is taken to engage in conduct for a purpose mentioned in subsection_(1) if the person engages in the conduct for purposes that include that purpose.
(3)
Subsection_(1) applies if the fourth person is a corporation.
(4)
Subsection_(1) also applies if:
(a) the third person is a corporation and the fourth person is not a corporation; and
(b) the conduct would have or be likely to have the effect of causing substantial loss or damage to the business of the third person.
Not sure what the UK statutory equivalent is, if any. But I note significant references in various acts to requirements for a ballot before strike action.
Last edited by Argus; 12th Aug 2005 at 06:48.
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My comment was not foolish but deadly serious. I am not in any way a BA hater
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Beagle wrote
"Quite what is the connection between ba ground staff and Gate Gourmet?"
Looking at the pictures on the telly - I think there might be a few extended Singh (etc.) families of Hounslow involved! Luckily they are in the same 'forward thinking, progressive, we're not stuck in the 70's' TGWU !
Just who do the TGWU think they are!!
"Quite what is the connection between ba ground staff and Gate Gourmet?"
Looking at the pictures on the telly - I think there might be a few extended Singh (etc.) families of Hounslow involved! Luckily they are in the same 'forward thinking, progressive, we're not stuck in the 70's' TGWU !
Just who do the TGWU think they are!!
Last edited by Sean Dell; 12th Aug 2005 at 06:56.