Stansted happenings
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Stansted happenings
Forgive me if I'd missed another thread, but there doesn't seem to be one dedicated to STN (apart from the one insulting the Mancunians), which must be the world no frills capital by now.
EZY just confirmed STN to GVA, up against Globespan's announcement last month.
EZY just confirmed STN to GVA, up against Globespan's announcement last month.
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We could talk about how BAA Stansted robbed Luton of business by enticing airlines out of Luton into a former cabbage patch with the profits made at Heathrow and Gatwick. We could talk about how the airport continues to rob Luton of business by giving unfair subsidies to airlines if they stay out of Luton.
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LTN Man, you could say the same about BAA using other revenues to cross subsidise LHR T5, and then to recycle these extra charges into the "gold plated" second runway at STN that the airlines don't want.
But I had hoped for a clean thread just mentioning the new routes and other changes at STN.
Maybe I was being a tad optimistic, as the dove turns to a hawk with shots firing in the background..........
But I had hoped for a clean thread just mentioning the new routes and other changes at STN.
Maybe I was being a tad optimistic, as the dove turns to a hawk with shots firing in the background..........
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Maxjet 767 landed again at Stansted, obviously another proving flight on behalf of FAA.
Am intrugued by LTNMan's anti stance against Stansted and BAA, so what happened to big expansion of flights by Monarch from Luton, BAA never enticed them to Stansted, perhaps Monarch done some market research and found it not viable, it does not need a conglomerate's like BAA to entice airlines away from LTN, the airlines manage better payloads at alternative airports themselves, so if you are in the boss mans shoes what would you do LTN Man, stick with low yields or go where there is higher yields and attractive rates. As with everything else its all about money !!!
That Swiss outfit swapped airports from Gatwick to Luton, so how is the payloads on this in comparison to Gatwick, so why did they move, nothing to do with getting a better cheaper deal at Luton I suppose, so they were not enticed from Gatwick then ???
Am intrugued by LTNMan's anti stance against Stansted and BAA, so what happened to big expansion of flights by Monarch from Luton, BAA never enticed them to Stansted, perhaps Monarch done some market research and found it not viable, it does not need a conglomerate's like BAA to entice airlines away from LTN, the airlines manage better payloads at alternative airports themselves, so if you are in the boss mans shoes what would you do LTN Man, stick with low yields or go where there is higher yields and attractive rates. As with everything else its all about money !!!
That Swiss outfit swapped airports from Gatwick to Luton, so how is the payloads on this in comparison to Gatwick, so why did they move, nothing to do with getting a better cheaper deal at Luton I suppose, so they were not enticed from Gatwick then ???
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I'm not going to get into a STN v LTN argument and agree , taking Monarch as an example, expansion at LTN did grind to a halt but perhaps now they are starting to put things right.
Winter sees the following expansion by MON @ LTN.
TFS. From 4 to 7 flights weekly
FAO. From 2 to 5 flights weekly
GIB. From 5 to 6 flights weekly
AGP. From 8 to 11 flights weekly
ALC, MEN, LPA & ACE stay the same.
TWO new destinations ex LTN for S06 under consideration.
As Jabird said when he started this thread, it was for new routes & changes at STN. Let's keep that way.
We don't need another HUY v DSA.
Winter sees the following expansion by MON @ LTN.
TFS. From 4 to 7 flights weekly
FAO. From 2 to 5 flights weekly
GIB. From 5 to 6 flights weekly
AGP. From 8 to 11 flights weekly
ALC, MEN, LPA & ACE stay the same.
TWO new destinations ex LTN for S06 under consideration.
As Jabird said when he started this thread, it was for new routes & changes at STN. Let's keep that way.
We don't need another HUY v DSA.
Last edited by Powerjet1; 2nd Aug 2005 at 15:11.
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Ok Lads, I promise not to mention L***N again on this thread but where is Stansted? I heard it is somewhere out in the sticks. The airlines and passengers seem to like it so it must have something going for it.
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by enticing airlines out of Luton into a former cabbage patch
but where is Stansted? I heard it is somewhere out in the sticks
From the business district of London (Canary Wharf) Stansted lies 34.6 miles/55.7 km and Luton 44.6 miles/71.8 kms!!! So guys stop refering to Stansted as "some field in Essex" or "a cabbage patch", this whole "my airport is better than your airport" thing is childish and gets on everyones nerves! Luton sits on a hill surrounded by grass fields in Bedfordshire for god sake not London WC1!!! Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted and Luton - none of which are in London so get a grip, whinging on this website aint geographically gonna change anything!
As I've said before I live in london and other than City, Stansted is the nearest major airport, it depends on where u live as certainly those west & north/west of the city may find Luton an easier option! Both have catchment area's so just chill out guys and stop sounding childish, it doesn't matter what any of us think on here people will fly from where they choose, and price often influences the consumer!
So as the person who set up this thread intended - KEEP IT STANSTED HAPPENINGS GUYS!
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Distance can always be swung in favour of one airport or another in London just by changing the starting point. By starting at Trafalgar Square multimap shows Stansted at 36 miles, Luton at 34 miles and Gatwick at 33 miles.
Stansted does seems to feel further out than it really is due to its long train journey to Liverpool Street which the BAA website states takes an average of 45 minutes. Maybe I just got on the slow one as I am sure it took nearly an hour!
Stansted does seems to feel further out than it really is due to its long train journey to Liverpool Street which the BAA website states takes an average of 45 minutes. Maybe I just got on the slow one as I am sure it took nearly an hour!
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Sky Europe to fly between an airport within the Bratislava mountains to Stansted twice weekly. The airport name escapes me, certainly the first route from there to the UK?
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Return of ABZ link ?
The possibility of a STN-ABZ service,lost when Air UK pulled out in 1999, has been raised.
Main story on BBC local radio was the ABZ MD advising that they were talking to an airline about restarting the link.
Fact that the MD was speaking about it on radio suggests to me that an announcement may come soon.
We'll see.
Route carried 100,000 pax annually before it was axed.
No idea of the airline involved,hopefully a more established & trustworthy one than the "Air Omega" shambles last year.They announced a route last year,but didn't materialise...neither did the airline!!
Main story on BBC local radio was the ABZ MD advising that they were talking to an airline about restarting the link.
Fact that the MD was speaking about it on radio suggests to me that an announcement may come soon.
We'll see.
Route carried 100,000 pax annually before it was axed.
No idea of the airline involved,hopefully a more established & trustworthy one than the "Air Omega" shambles last year.They announced a route last year,but didn't materialise...neither did the airline!!
The reason for LTNman's antipathy towards Stansted is that it has been developed for all the wrong reasons, and has deprived Luton folk, over the years, of lots of employment opportunities and the wealth that flows from them.
BAA was unnecessarily state-owned for years, and as such was handed a near-monopoly of airports in the South East. Because of its links with Government, it was unfairly favoured by other Government departments, notably in terms of planning.
Construction of the current Stansted terminal was undertaken on a 'predict and provide' basis, rather than the more pragmatic 'sell then invest' approach that most private-sector companies have to adopt by necessity.
Looking at provision of London-area air services, the original use of London Airport (Heathrow) makes sense. It's close to the city centre, had enough space, and could be developed easily. Gatwick makes much less sense. Although it is closer to the Continent, it is not an ideal place for a second London Airport. Getting there from any part of Britain apart from the 'far south-east' i.e. South London, Kent, Surrey and Sussex is a nightmare. Although the 'far south-east' is an affluent area with a high propensity to travel, its inaccessibilty to everyone else makes it far from convenient.
North of London is a more obvious place for a second airport for the capital, in terms of population density and accessibilty. In fact, Luton is second only to Heathrow in terms of the number of people within a one-hour drive. Unfortunately, Luton Corporation built their own airport and then held on to it until the late 90s. During that time, they proved that local authorities are not appropriate owners of national assets, as they are run by donkeys.
There is lots of evidence that Luton is the place people want to fly from, but the incapacity of the airport to cope comes mainly from restrictive planning, in favour of BAA from Governments still in thrall to their former mates.
The antipathy of the Luton supporters to Stansted can be summed up by a well justified claim "we wuz robbed". And they were, of IT flights, Ryanair, TNT, SkyEurope, Go, and others. So yes, have your thread about Stansted's successes, but don't assume that people will be very sympathetic when unfair competition has deprived them of livelihoods, affluence and influence.
BAA was unnecessarily state-owned for years, and as such was handed a near-monopoly of airports in the South East. Because of its links with Government, it was unfairly favoured by other Government departments, notably in terms of planning.
Construction of the current Stansted terminal was undertaken on a 'predict and provide' basis, rather than the more pragmatic 'sell then invest' approach that most private-sector companies have to adopt by necessity.
Looking at provision of London-area air services, the original use of London Airport (Heathrow) makes sense. It's close to the city centre, had enough space, and could be developed easily. Gatwick makes much less sense. Although it is closer to the Continent, it is not an ideal place for a second London Airport. Getting there from any part of Britain apart from the 'far south-east' i.e. South London, Kent, Surrey and Sussex is a nightmare. Although the 'far south-east' is an affluent area with a high propensity to travel, its inaccessibilty to everyone else makes it far from convenient.
North of London is a more obvious place for a second airport for the capital, in terms of population density and accessibilty. In fact, Luton is second only to Heathrow in terms of the number of people within a one-hour drive. Unfortunately, Luton Corporation built their own airport and then held on to it until the late 90s. During that time, they proved that local authorities are not appropriate owners of national assets, as they are run by donkeys.
There is lots of evidence that Luton is the place people want to fly from, but the incapacity of the airport to cope comes mainly from restrictive planning, in favour of BAA from Governments still in thrall to their former mates.
The antipathy of the Luton supporters to Stansted can be summed up by a well justified claim "we wuz robbed". And they were, of IT flights, Ryanair, TNT, SkyEurope, Go, and others. So yes, have your thread about Stansted's successes, but don't assume that people will be very sympathetic when unfair competition has deprived them of livelihoods, affluence and influence.
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Forgive my ignorance/not being up to date dhaaan saaaaf! but did not/does not George Soros have/had a financial interest in Luton Airport.
OK Luton Parkway is a 5 minute coach ride from the airport, but are not some of the stands at STN 10 mins by mini-tram (once you have walked to the tram, waited for it to arrive, got on it and got transported to the gate -marvellous system I must admit).
LTN has Thameslink and Midland Mainline, STN has the STN Express and East Coast Mainline?
STN has the M11
LTN has the M1
Both are accessible from East and West London respectively
STN has a bit more flag carrier movement than LTN, but LTN has a lot of 'bucket and spade' charter.
Both are bl***y lucky to have London with 30 mins, train and M-way on the doorstep, both will grow, but it would be nice if STN did it without the necessity of LGW & LHR cross-subsidising (as mentioned earlier)
I think your Business Plans are diverse enough, coupled with the physical distance, for you both to survive and grow.
Hopefully it will reduce the expansion pressure on LGW 2nd runway and LHR 4th? runway (I lose count, sorry).
OK Luton Parkway is a 5 minute coach ride from the airport, but are not some of the stands at STN 10 mins by mini-tram (once you have walked to the tram, waited for it to arrive, got on it and got transported to the gate -marvellous system I must admit).
LTN has Thameslink and Midland Mainline, STN has the STN Express and East Coast Mainline?
STN has the M11
LTN has the M1
Both are accessible from East and West London respectively
STN has a bit more flag carrier movement than LTN, but LTN has a lot of 'bucket and spade' charter.
Both are bl***y lucky to have London with 30 mins, train and M-way on the doorstep, both will grow, but it would be nice if STN did it without the necessity of LGW & LHR cross-subsidising (as mentioned earlier)
I think your Business Plans are diverse enough, coupled with the physical distance, for you both to survive and grow.
Hopefully it will reduce the expansion pressure on LGW 2nd runway and LHR 4th? runway (I lose count, sorry).
7006,
Clearing up some misunderstandings:
1. Luton Airport is owned by Luton Borough Council. It is about 6 years in to a 'lease' whereby an operating company runs the airport and pays LBC a fee per passenger (rumoured to be £3). The operating company is TBI which is now owned by ACDL, itself owned 90% by Abertis, a Spanish Construction Group and 10% by AENA, operator of most airports in Spain. I don't know whether Soros has an interest in either.
2. Stansted is not on the East Coast Mainline Railway. In fact that line runs closer to Luton as it passes through Stevenage, some 7m east of Luton's runway. TBI's 2004 development proposals included a possible link to that railway.
3. The M1 serves Milton Keynes, Northampton, the East Midlands, West Midlands, and Yorkshire.
The M11 peters out about 15m north of Stansted. It serves Cambridge.
4. I think that at present Stansted probably handles more charter 'bucket and spade' operations than Luton. Mainly because of unfair cross-subsidies from BAA. Luton is the home base of both Britannia and Monarch, but Britannia only operate 2/3 aircraft from there, and now most Monarch flights are scheduled services.
5. Neither is 'fortunate' to be near London. London was there a few years before either airport was even thought of.
. But Stansted owes its recent development to its proximity to London.
Clearing up some misunderstandings:
1. Luton Airport is owned by Luton Borough Council. It is about 6 years in to a 'lease' whereby an operating company runs the airport and pays LBC a fee per passenger (rumoured to be £3). The operating company is TBI which is now owned by ACDL, itself owned 90% by Abertis, a Spanish Construction Group and 10% by AENA, operator of most airports in Spain. I don't know whether Soros has an interest in either.
2. Stansted is not on the East Coast Mainline Railway. In fact that line runs closer to Luton as it passes through Stevenage, some 7m east of Luton's runway. TBI's 2004 development proposals included a possible link to that railway.
3. The M1 serves Milton Keynes, Northampton, the East Midlands, West Midlands, and Yorkshire.
The M11 peters out about 15m north of Stansted. It serves Cambridge.
4. I think that at present Stansted probably handles more charter 'bucket and spade' operations than Luton. Mainly because of unfair cross-subsidies from BAA. Luton is the home base of both Britannia and Monarch, but Britannia only operate 2/3 aircraft from there, and now most Monarch flights are scheduled services.
5. Neither is 'fortunate' to be near London. London was there a few years before either airport was even thought of.
. But Stansted owes its recent development to its proximity to London.
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Does it really matter!!
Both airports are going fine and both obviously expanding, one maybe faster than the other, but we can only blame that to the management, not the location.
easyJet finds it viable to operate from both airports and even to the same destination, so its not the distance from london that matters or their location, both airports are obvioulsy suited to locals as well as people in areas of london closest to either luton or stansted. Many would prefer to avoid the prices and trouble of getting into heathrow, also with the situation increasing at gatwick.
stansted can also offer flights to people within the whole of east anglia, and luton the whole of luton area, also local cities such as milton keynes, peterborough etc. so its not all about london.
hope my post made sense!!
Both airports are going fine and both obviously expanding, one maybe faster than the other, but we can only blame that to the management, not the location.
easyJet finds it viable to operate from both airports and even to the same destination, so its not the distance from london that matters or their location, both airports are obvioulsy suited to locals as well as people in areas of london closest to either luton or stansted. Many would prefer to avoid the prices and trouble of getting into heathrow, also with the situation increasing at gatwick.
stansted can also offer flights to people within the whole of east anglia, and luton the whole of luton area, also local cities such as milton keynes, peterborough etc. so its not all about london.
hope my post made sense!!
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EOS
Away from the LTN v STN debate, news of more proving flights into STN, this time for the new "High Cost carrier" EOS, that is planning to use 757s in a 48 seat configuration.
Reports vary of where the 757s being obtained from, both Aeromexico (ILFC website) or US Air aircarft (images on the EOS site) have been indicated.
Current planned proving flights times are:
Monday 08 AUG 101 JFK 0800 STN 2021 7:21
Tuesday 09 AUG 102 STN 1400 JFK 1700 8:00
Wednesday 10 AUG 103 JFK 2100 STN 0921 +1
(Thu) 7:21
Friday 12 AUG 104 STN 1145 JFK 1445 8:00
Monday 15 AUG 105 JFK 2100 STN 0921 +1
(Tue) 7:21
Wednesday 17 AUG 106 STN 1145 JFK 1445 8:00
17 AUG 107 JFK 2100 STN 0921 +1 (Thu) 7:21
Friday 19 AUG 108 STN 1145 JFK 1445 8:00
With Maxjet and EOS apparently on the way, discussions ongoing with Continental, things are looking up for the transatlantic routes at last
Reports vary of where the 757s being obtained from, both Aeromexico (ILFC website) or US Air aircarft (images on the EOS site) have been indicated.
Current planned proving flights times are:
Monday 08 AUG 101 JFK 0800 STN 2021 7:21
Tuesday 09 AUG 102 STN 1400 JFK 1700 8:00
Wednesday 10 AUG 103 JFK 2100 STN 0921 +1
(Thu) 7:21
Friday 12 AUG 104 STN 1145 JFK 1445 8:00
Monday 15 AUG 105 JFK 2100 STN 0921 +1
(Tue) 7:21
Wednesday 17 AUG 106 STN 1145 JFK 1445 8:00
17 AUG 107 JFK 2100 STN 0921 +1 (Thu) 7:21
Friday 19 AUG 108 STN 1145 JFK 1445 8:00
With Maxjet and EOS apparently on the way, discussions ongoing with Continental, things are looking up for the transatlantic routes at last