One more day: Irish govt due to make its PSO decisions?(Merged)
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Actually RE received far more than you quote. The last PSO was index linked 10% PA. Crazy stuff. Jury is out will RE be able to survive without radical restructuring. Dept. was adamant that they were not going to be seen to finance RE Uk expansion via PSO.
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the management at Knock dont sound too disappointed on the out come.The way it came across on the radio is that noc see growth in the new service.
The million dollar question is willl RE stay on anyone know?
The million dollar question is willl RE stay on anyone know?
Hi all
Perhaps Sligo preferred ATRs to Sf340s? More to the point, what will happen to RE now? Rumour has it that the company will retrench for now, by letting the Dutch pilots go when their contracts are up, letting the two oldest aircraft back to the lessors, shutting down the expensive HQ at EIDW and reopening in Galway. They'll probably reduce recruitment of all staff types to zero, as well. Don't regard them as a busted flush, by any means.
regards
TDD
Perhaps Sligo preferred ATRs to Sf340s? More to the point, what will happen to RE now? Rumour has it that the company will retrench for now, by letting the Dutch pilots go when their contracts are up, letting the two oldest aircraft back to the lessors, shutting down the expensive HQ at EIDW and reopening in Galway. They'll probably reduce recruitment of all staff types to zero, as well. Don't regard them as a busted flush, by any means.
regards
TDD
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From what i can deduse from their timetable, the Knock aircraft arrived at dublin at 0745 and did the 0815 to Sligo, getting back in time to go to the Isle of Man at 1035, getting back to Dublin again at 1215. Presumably it did another round trip to somewhere over lunchtime (Galway?) or got a wipe of a mechanics sleeve for a few hours and then the 1600 to Cork before going back to Knock at 1800 and operating the Liverpool service.
It would be kinda ironic if losing Knock caused Arran to pull off Dublin - IOM and hand the route to Euromanx, who just recently started competing with Arran on the Galway - London market.
Time for a bit of consolidation by Arran, methinks. they have a pretty good niche in some routes but are very exposed on Cork - you cannot keep operating eleven round trips per day without attracting attention from a LoCo competitor. Short odds on a major Waterford announcement soon?
Over the years, Arran have been down but never out - this setback will knock the wind out of their sails (and sales) for a few weeks but they will bounce back.
It would be kinda ironic if losing Knock caused Arran to pull off Dublin - IOM and hand the route to Euromanx, who just recently started competing with Arran on the Galway - London market.
Time for a bit of consolidation by Arran, methinks. they have a pretty good niche in some routes but are very exposed on Cork - you cannot keep operating eleven round trips per day without attracting attention from a LoCo competitor. Short odds on a major Waterford announcement soon?
Over the years, Arran have been down but never out - this setback will knock the wind out of their sails (and sales) for a few weeks but they will bounce back.
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A lot of reshuffling going on at Loganair, with BA ATPs departing and SF340s arriving. If they feel they prefer to run a quality operation from LDY/NOC rather than overstretching by adding SXL/CFN (both fairly marginal ports anyway) then good on them I say - better that than another Euroceltic!
Hi all
I'm all in favour of RE having as much of the PSOs as possible because they are good at what they do. The possibility of pilot and other job losses is very real, sadly, but the Dutch guys knew that there was no guarantee of getting a fulltime gig. They might have to dump the Dublin HQ because it's very,very expensive to rent from the DAA. failing that, they might end up shifting out of the Airport, just like Cityjet. The older aircraft were going back, either way and this change in circumstances has just spurred it. I have no doubt that RE will knuckle down and adjust and do what ever's required to keep going. They survived the debacle of the 145 loss so this should be overcome,also .
regards
TDD
I'm all in favour of RE having as much of the PSOs as possible because they are good at what they do. The possibility of pilot and other job losses is very real, sadly, but the Dutch guys knew that there was no guarantee of getting a fulltime gig. They might have to dump the Dublin HQ because it's very,very expensive to rent from the DAA. failing that, they might end up shifting out of the Airport, just like Cityjet. The older aircraft were going back, either way and this change in circumstances has just spurred it. I have no doubt that RE will knuckle down and adjust and do what ever's required to keep going. They survived the debacle of the 145 loss so this should be overcome,also .
regards
TDD
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Well - good to see Aer Arann have not changed. Have cancelled the evening flights from Dublin-Kerry-Dublin. I was waiting for my wife but hey it's cancelled. A lot of very upset media types waiting at Kerry Airport for other journos as the opposition Labour Party are having their conference in Tralee - 10 mins from Kerry Airport. Aer Arann are a crap airline.
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"quote"
Hi all
Perhaps Sligo preferred ATRs to Sf340s? More to the point, what will happen to RE now? Rumour has it that the company will retrench for now, by letting the Dutch pilots go when their contracts are up, letting the two oldest aircraft back to the lessors, shutting down the expensive HQ at EIDW and reopening in Galway. They'll probably reduce recruitment of all staff types to zero, as well. Don't regard them as a busted flush, by any means.
regards
TDD
Twodeaddogs,
No one in the company is letting go, on the contrary. About the Dutch going when their contracts are up...., well they have all open ended contracts, which means no ending date as such. RE is still loking for capts. It is true the old atr 42 will be gone soon, but they will be replaced by 72's. All 42's are to be replaced with 72's in short time. Don't be surprised when you at the end of this year see a fleet of 15 aircrafts in RE. Won't call that a set back.
smiert
Hi all
Perhaps Sligo preferred ATRs to Sf340s? More to the point, what will happen to RE now? Rumour has it that the company will retrench for now, by letting the Dutch pilots go when their contracts are up, letting the two oldest aircraft back to the lessors, shutting down the expensive HQ at EIDW and reopening in Galway. They'll probably reduce recruitment of all staff types to zero, as well. Don't regard them as a busted flush, by any means.
regards
TDD
Twodeaddogs,
No one in the company is letting go, on the contrary. About the Dutch going when their contracts are up...., well they have all open ended contracts, which means no ending date as such. RE is still loking for capts. It is true the old atr 42 will be gone soon, but they will be replaced by 72's. All 42's are to be replaced with 72's in short time. Don't be surprised when you at the end of this year see a fleet of 15 aircrafts in RE. Won't call that a set back.
smiert
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Having flown on a 340 once in EI Commuter days and on an RE ATR, I can't figure how anyone would prefer the former as an aircraft. Maybe it was being asked to move to the other side of the aircraft to balance it (because of a later passenger who eventually showed up)!
Looking at the Loganair website (loganair.co.uk) they have a nice routemap which gradually fills in the destinations - you start thinking "not many really" and then they just keep adding and adding.
As I have answered my own question (BA does put its codes, 8964-8967, on DUB-LDY) NOC now has more BA connections for LGW and the possibility of linking NOC to GLA/EDI and/or DUB-IOM could be on the cards.
Have Arann ever talked to bmi/Star or AF/Skyteam about codesharing, since EI don't seem to want to know and Loganair may eventually build a larger route network - this is now airport no 4 in the Republic for Logan.
Looking at the Loganair website (loganair.co.uk) they have a nice routemap which gradually fills in the destinations - you start thinking "not many really" and then they just keep adding and adding.
As I have answered my own question (BA does put its codes, 8964-8967, on DUB-LDY) NOC now has more BA connections for LGW and the possibility of linking NOC to GLA/EDI and/or DUB-IOM could be on the cards.
Have Arann ever talked to bmi/Star or AF/Skyteam about codesharing, since EI don't seem to want to know and Loganair may eventually build a larger route network - this is now airport no 4 in the Republic for Logan.
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Looks like this PSO saga is not over yet. In today's Irish edition of S. Times -
May 29, 2005
Aer Arann slashes €2.25m off subsidy to undercut Ryanair
Mark Paul and Douglas Dalby
Aer Arann, the regional carrier headed up by Padraig O Ceidigh, slashed the level of state subvention it was prepared to receive by as much as 42% to undercut a challenge from Ryanair for the tender for the uneconomic Kerry-Dublin route.
Last year Aer Arann received about €5.25m from the government to operate the Public Service Obligation (PSO) Kerry route, but in the tender it submitted this year the airline agreed to reduce this to €3m. It is believed this figure was just below what Ryanair was prepared to accept.
Aer Arann made an after-tax profit of just more than €2.2m in 2003 in its last filed set of accounts, leaving industry sources to speculate on how it proposes to make money by accepting a cut in its subsidy of €2.25m on just one route.
Ryanair surprised many industry watchers by tendering for the Kerry contract, given the high-profile opposition to state help to the airline industry espoused by Michael O’Leary, its chief executive.
After losing out on the Kerry route, Ryanair is believed to be considering taking on Aer Arann by opening up a Dublin-Cork connection. Aer Arann currently operates 11 Cork-Dublin flights each weekday and five each Saturday and Sunday. As well as a threat to its Cork route from Ryanair, analysts have also warned that Aer Arann’s Galway routes could be affected by Ryanair’s move into Shannon.
The airline, which last year received an estimated €18.2m in subsidies, also beat off competition from BMI Regional, European Express and CityJet to take the Kerry route.
It managed to hold on to four of the five three-year PSO contracts it previously held, losing the Dublin-Knock route to Scottish airline Loganair, which also won the Derry contract. In addition to Kerry, Aer Arann will continue to operate the PSO services linking Dublin to Galway, Donegal and Sligo.
The airline currently operates more than 500 flights per week across 17 UK, six domestic and two French routes. It carried nearly 1m passengers in 2004. O Ceidigh has said that state subsidies account for about 30% of its revenues but has denied that the airline could not survive without them.
The six PSO contracts were announced last week by the transport minister Martin Cullen and are worth up to €45.8m to Aer Arann and Loganair.
May 29, 2005
Aer Arann slashes €2.25m off subsidy to undercut Ryanair
Mark Paul and Douglas Dalby
Aer Arann, the regional carrier headed up by Padraig O Ceidigh, slashed the level of state subvention it was prepared to receive by as much as 42% to undercut a challenge from Ryanair for the tender for the uneconomic Kerry-Dublin route.
Last year Aer Arann received about €5.25m from the government to operate the Public Service Obligation (PSO) Kerry route, but in the tender it submitted this year the airline agreed to reduce this to €3m. It is believed this figure was just below what Ryanair was prepared to accept.
Aer Arann made an after-tax profit of just more than €2.2m in 2003 in its last filed set of accounts, leaving industry sources to speculate on how it proposes to make money by accepting a cut in its subsidy of €2.25m on just one route.
Ryanair surprised many industry watchers by tendering for the Kerry contract, given the high-profile opposition to state help to the airline industry espoused by Michael O’Leary, its chief executive.
After losing out on the Kerry route, Ryanair is believed to be considering taking on Aer Arann by opening up a Dublin-Cork connection. Aer Arann currently operates 11 Cork-Dublin flights each weekday and five each Saturday and Sunday. As well as a threat to its Cork route from Ryanair, analysts have also warned that Aer Arann’s Galway routes could be affected by Ryanair’s move into Shannon.
The airline, which last year received an estimated €18.2m in subsidies, also beat off competition from BMI Regional, European Express and CityJet to take the Kerry route.
It managed to hold on to four of the five three-year PSO contracts it previously held, losing the Dublin-Knock route to Scottish airline Loganair, which also won the Derry contract. In addition to Kerry, Aer Arann will continue to operate the PSO services linking Dublin to Galway, Donegal and Sligo.
The airline currently operates more than 500 flights per week across 17 UK, six domestic and two French routes. It carried nearly 1m passengers in 2004. O Ceidigh has said that state subsidies account for about 30% of its revenues but has denied that the airline could not survive without them.
The six PSO contracts were announced last week by the transport minister Martin Cullen and are worth up to €45.8m to Aer Arann and Loganair.
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Has anyone every stopped to ask if the Galway and Kerry routes could actually be operated at a profit without subsidy?
IMHO, if they can operate 11 a day on Cork commercially with higher fares than the PSO, why can't they fly three a day on Galway and Kerry (both 100,000+ passenger per year routes I suspect?) with the same higher fares and no subsidy? Why is Dublin - Cork so different - if anything, Kerry is so inaccessable people should pay more to get there than Cork. By getting rid of the uneconomic low fares on the PSO routes and eliminating the subsidy, more traffic would move to the state railways and reduce the subsidies needed there so giving a double bonus to the tax payers.
IMHO, if they can operate 11 a day on Cork commercially with higher fares than the PSO, why can't they fly three a day on Galway and Kerry (both 100,000+ passenger per year routes I suspect?) with the same higher fares and no subsidy? Why is Dublin - Cork so different - if anything, Kerry is so inaccessable people should pay more to get there than Cork. By getting rid of the uneconomic low fares on the PSO routes and eliminating the subsidy, more traffic would move to the state railways and reduce the subsidies needed there so giving a double bonus to the tax payers.
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hey there
what the subsidy buys is timing - otherwise GWY/KIR etc would not get the morning/evening slots. Read the PSO docs to see the restrictions involved. Morning flights mean basing aircraft - more cost or positioning - more cost.
what the subsidy buys is timing - otherwise GWY/KIR etc would not get the morning/evening slots. Read the PSO docs to see the restrictions involved. Morning flights mean basing aircraft - more cost or positioning - more cost.
Hallo,Smiert et al,
One of my "spies" in the Company mentioned all of the above in conversation. The fear of the possible closure of the Dublin base is quite real,especially for those who have already moved house to accomodate the Company's needs. With regard to the Dutch pilots, as every connie knows, the "connie's crucifix" is never more than the whim of the Boss away. Today, connies are in,tomorrow they are out... The replacement of the smaller ATRs has long been a topic of conversation in RE.This event has probably brought their actual departure date closer.
neidin, every airline suffers sudden cancellations and RE are no better or worse than anyone else. It really doesn't take much to knock a schedule off kilter,with the flights at the tail-end taking the hardest hit.
regards
TDD
One of my "spies" in the Company mentioned all of the above in conversation. The fear of the possible closure of the Dublin base is quite real,especially for those who have already moved house to accomodate the Company's needs. With regard to the Dutch pilots, as every connie knows, the "connie's crucifix" is never more than the whim of the Boss away. Today, connies are in,tomorrow they are out... The replacement of the smaller ATRs has long been a topic of conversation in RE.This event has probably brought their actual departure date closer.
neidin, every airline suffers sudden cancellations and RE are no better or worse than anyone else. It really doesn't take much to knock a schedule off kilter,with the flights at the tail-end taking the hardest hit.
regards
TDD
