18 year old starts his own airline
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 24
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
The rate for own car usage for business travel is currently 40p per mile. At 118 miles each way gives a total of £94.40 for the round trip.
118*2*£0.63=£148.68 - then there is the time saved - assume it's 2.5 hrs, and if you cost a person on £50,000/yr at 2.5 times their salary (NI, pension, benefits and overheads) it brings another £62.50.
Road - £210, Air - £98 + taxis.
Still not costed is the wear and tear on the traveller if they'd taken the road - ever seen the blood pressure charts on drivers?
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: uk
Age: 49
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just what does a PA31 come out at these days.....less Catering, etc, etc. I assume the cost of a PA31 charter these days is more than £1000 per hour.??????????????
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ormskirk, Lancashire.
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BPL321 Wrote:
Sound like a jealous attitude to me. Good luck to him.
Bumz_Rush wrote:
Errr, do you really think that this lad has not done the maths before launching his idea?
I can\'t believe that a group such as yourselves (with some exceptions) are just pulling this lad down.
I am not going to dwell on this as it is quite obvious what the problem is, JEALOUSY.... simple as that. I can imaging that a lot of people in this group are actually hoping he fails so they can say "I told you so" just because you wish you had thought of it or had the balls to do it.
Flame away....
Fair enough. Anyway more important things to worry about without giving this company free advertising.
Bumz_Rush wrote:
I admire the concept but dispute the maths...someone prove me wrong.
I can\'t believe that a group such as yourselves (with some exceptions) are just pulling this lad down.
I am not going to dwell on this as it is quite obvious what the problem is, JEALOUSY.... simple as that. I can imaging that a lot of people in this group are actually hoping he fails so they can say "I told you so" just because you wish you had thought of it or had the balls to do it.
Flame away....
Guest
Posts: n/a
First off congrats to the young man. Anyone who has run their own business knows it's a very lonely place to be.
Secondly, i'm disgusted by the amount of negative points made in the last 4 pages. There are very few of you saying "well done mate" etc etc.
One of you said in response to one of the bitter comments "why aren't you employed?", mate your probably right. This thread highlights why people de-value the information contained on this site.
For once can't we congratulate him and keep and eye on it and resist the temptation (god only knows why you would want to) to slag him off.
I'm disgusted and appauled at the attitudes contained in the thread above mine.
Secondly, i'm disgusted by the amount of negative points made in the last 4 pages. There are very few of you saying "well done mate" etc etc.
One of you said in response to one of the bitter comments "why aren't you employed?", mate your probably right. This thread highlights why people de-value the information contained on this site.
For once can't we congratulate him and keep and eye on it and resist the temptation (god only knows why you would want to) to slag him off.
I'm disgusted and appauled at the attitudes contained in the thread above mine.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: All over
Age: 73
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is this factually correct?
Q. Is Alpha1 ATOL protected?
A. No, but don't let that worry you. Because we issue your ticket the instant you pay us we do not require an ATOL, however, your contract is with AirMed, not Alpha1 Airways and they will honour all reservations.
Q. Is Alpha1 ATOL protected?
A. No, but don't let that worry you. Because we issue your ticket the instant you pay us we do not require an ATOL, however, your contract is with AirMed, not Alpha1 Airways and they will honour all reservations.
Last edited by Fly_146; 23rd Mar 2005 at 20:44.
LUXury is a 13,000 ft runway
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Centre of Western Europe
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is this factually correct? (...)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: West Scotland
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what a bunch most of you are...
why is it that no matter what anybody does in life there are always people there to bring him down.. must be jealousy simple as that.
If there was a 40yr old starting up out of Bournemouth with a leased 737 selling tickets to say ireland for 20quid, again people would be here pulling him down.
we all think of things in life we would like to be able to do, occasioanally some brave person take a chance and goes for it, some succeed, some fail.. who knows, its the taking part that counts not the winning..
p.s. i might add he is 18.. most kids of 18 this day and age are out drinking and pi$$ing everything up against walls
if it fails miserably then say told you so
in the meantime give him a break
TR
why is it that no matter what anybody does in life there are always people there to bring him down.. must be jealousy simple as that.
If there was a 40yr old starting up out of Bournemouth with a leased 737 selling tickets to say ireland for 20quid, again people would be here pulling him down.
we all think of things in life we would like to be able to do, occasioanally some brave person take a chance and goes for it, some succeed, some fail.. who knows, its the taking part that counts not the winning..
p.s. i might add he is 18.. most kids of 18 this day and age are out drinking and pi$$ing everything up against walls
if it fails miserably then say told you so
in the meantime give him a break
TR
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Far East
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't really care whether he becomes a Richard Branson or not, but it's an interesting story to distract me from AC Electrics and ETOPS and rapidly approaching exams!
I am however genuinely interested in the feasability of something like this. I cannot see how it could possibly work, which is how I suspect many people view it. Its not that I am anti-it, bitter or jealous.
For example, if 2 pax don't turn up, or rather, only 6 pax are booked for a flight, then his revenue will be down by some 25%. Therefore passenger numbers will be absolutley critical for as long as it remains a small venture. If 2 pax don't book on an Easy flight, it is absorbed easily (no pun intended), but how will Alpha1 absorb the costs? (Worst case scenario: no pax booked Oxford - Camb, and 1 pax booked Camb-Oxford = 1hrs PA31 charter from AirMed plus 2 pilots wages + fixed fees, less 1 ticket at £49)
I Simply don't see how it could possibly make money. (And there's a lot of difference between "a lot of interest being shown" (according to the press) following national press article and day to day bookings through the winter.)
I am however genuinely interested in the feasability of something like this. I cannot see how it could possibly work, which is how I suspect many people view it. Its not that I am anti-it, bitter or jealous.
For example, if 2 pax don't turn up, or rather, only 6 pax are booked for a flight, then his revenue will be down by some 25%. Therefore passenger numbers will be absolutley critical for as long as it remains a small venture. If 2 pax don't book on an Easy flight, it is absorbed easily (no pun intended), but how will Alpha1 absorb the costs? (Worst case scenario: no pax booked Oxford - Camb, and 1 pax booked Camb-Oxford = 1hrs PA31 charter from AirMed plus 2 pilots wages + fixed fees, less 1 ticket at £49)
I Simply don't see how it could possibly make money. (And there's a lot of difference between "a lot of interest being shown" (according to the press) following national press article and day to day bookings through the winter.)
Last edited by Dude~; 23rd Mar 2005 at 19:22.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Midlands, UK
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets be honest here.....
I will join in with the standard comments of "Good luck to him, etc etc". At 18 years of age i'm quite sure he'll be a success in whatever he chooses to do in view of how enterprising he is all ready....
I have been working in this industry for 25 years and been part of 3 start up airlines in a flight ops management capacity - all this chap has created is another virtual airline, in fact, that is what the CAA refer to it as. Having gained 3 new AOC's over my time, I am 100% positive that the money involved to gain his own AOC and post holder salaries will not add up with a Navajo operation.
And if he is considering a B1900 etc etc...he'll have to pay to put one of these onto Air Meds AOC....then your talking type ratings, mega aircraft operating costs etc etc....
I'm sorry - we and the rest of the world all love a tryer, but this is just a non-starter and an 18 year old playing at a Virtual Airline career...
As I say, lets be honest - this is just a load of tosh all kicked up by the press...
I will join in with the standard comments of "Good luck to him, etc etc". At 18 years of age i'm quite sure he'll be a success in whatever he chooses to do in view of how enterprising he is all ready....
I have been working in this industry for 25 years and been part of 3 start up airlines in a flight ops management capacity - all this chap has created is another virtual airline, in fact, that is what the CAA refer to it as. Having gained 3 new AOC's over my time, I am 100% positive that the money involved to gain his own AOC and post holder salaries will not add up with a Navajo operation.
And if he is considering a B1900 etc etc...he'll have to pay to put one of these onto Air Meds AOC....then your talking type ratings, mega aircraft operating costs etc etc....
I'm sorry - we and the rest of the world all love a tryer, but this is just a non-starter and an 18 year old playing at a Virtual Airline career...
As I say, lets be honest - this is just a load of tosh all kicked up by the press...
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Morton-in-Marsh
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as engine failure in a PA-31 is concerned, there should be no problem so long as the pilot is properly trained, and the aircraft is properly maintained. There are two pilots (apparently) on every flight, so I really think they should be able to hack a 60nm sector. It is an excellent venture for a young man to start. Yes, it may well fail, but he will learn a lot and go on to greater things. He, and the organisation, deserve support and encouragement.
The only thing that worries me is that presumably the operator has a deal with him to supply him with the aicrraft and crew for a set sum of money. (If this is not the case it would be good to know.) Providing AOC coverage is fine; supplying a crew is fine; but supplying the AOC, crew and aircraft usually means that the person at the end of it all has his hands tied. If he is not making any money on the scheduled service operation, he cannot use the aircraft and crew on ad hoc charters to keep the money flowing in. There is no other way to make money out of the aircraft.
But it sounds like he is not stupid, so he has probabaly got some deal with Airmed that will provide him with some insurance, such as an element of risk-sharing. I certainly hope so.
Oxford-Cambridge does not sound to me like a particularly exciting route, but it is a start, and presumably both airports have done their bit to support the operation by not charging Alpha1 for a year or so.
The important thing to remember is that if does suffer losses, we should not say "I told you so", but encourage him to stick with aviation and have another go in the future.
Riverboat
The only thing that worries me is that presumably the operator has a deal with him to supply him with the aicrraft and crew for a set sum of money. (If this is not the case it would be good to know.) Providing AOC coverage is fine; supplying a crew is fine; but supplying the AOC, crew and aircraft usually means that the person at the end of it all has his hands tied. If he is not making any money on the scheduled service operation, he cannot use the aircraft and crew on ad hoc charters to keep the money flowing in. There is no other way to make money out of the aircraft.
But it sounds like he is not stupid, so he has probabaly got some deal with Airmed that will provide him with some insurance, such as an element of risk-sharing. I certainly hope so.
Oxford-Cambridge does not sound to me like a particularly exciting route, but it is a start, and presumably both airports have done their bit to support the operation by not charging Alpha1 for a year or so.
The important thing to remember is that if does suffer losses, we should not say "I told you so", but encourage him to stick with aviation and have another go in the future.
Riverboat
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: All over
Age: 73
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldnt for one moment expect this aircraft to make any return on this route at these rates. A 29 seat Jetstream 41 with healthy loads and clever yield management might!
This is a low risk, zero capital route start up with good growth potential. Lets hope they can develop the route into a profitable operation fast!
ps. Why did Suckling never venture into this one?!
This is a low risk, zero capital route start up with good growth potential. Lets hope they can develop the route into a profitable operation fast!
ps. Why did Suckling never venture into this one?!
....another SEIFR plugJoin Date: Jan 2004
Location: LHR
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While I wish him every success in his venture I truly hope this young chap doesn't end up losing everything he has worked for!! Mind you with all the publicity surrounding his venture, maybe one of the larger players will offer him a job, if things don't work out.
For the number crunchers out there, Air Med have some estimated costings for chartering their aircraft, on their website -
http://www.airmed.co.uk/cities/cambridge.htm
For the number crunchers out there, Air Med have some estimated costings for chartering their aircraft, on their website -
http://www.airmed.co.uk/cities/cambridge.htm
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, so I have read all the posts and it does not surprise me that there is so much negativity towards this guy. Yet again it’s the same people who believe they know best why certain ventures could never work.
Since most of you seem to know the pit falls and reasons why the venture will not work then you should be in a better position than he is. Let’s see you guys in action. From what has been said, some of you guys have the midas touch!
The airline business is changing faster than most airlines can keep up with it, so who is to say it will not work. I bet there were plenty of airlines out there laughing at FR when they said they would do what they have done all those years ago. Look at them now.
Best of luck to him.
Since most of you seem to know the pit falls and reasons why the venture will not work then you should be in a better position than he is. Let’s see you guys in action. From what has been said, some of you guys have the midas touch!
The airline business is changing faster than most airlines can keep up with it, so who is to say it will not work. I bet there were plenty of airlines out there laughing at FR when they said they would do what they have done all those years ago. Look at them now.
Best of luck to him.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: honkers
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well,
most of you have shown yourselves as typical PPRUNE green eyed monsters.
I expect a large amount of you can't find employment in aviation so you resort to bringing down other people to your level. SAD.
Good luck to this young lad and I hope all goes well.
most of you have shown yourselves as typical PPRUNE green eyed monsters.
I expect a large amount of you can't find employment in aviation so you resort to bringing down other people to your level. SAD.
Good luck to this young lad and I hope all goes well.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let's all acknowledge the obvious shall we..? Regardless of whether or not this venture succeeds (and I certainly wish him the best), a boy with this level of ambition, drive, determination and confidence will leave nearly every one of us in the proverbial dust. I could only wish to have had 1/10th of his cojone's when I was 18.....
Rotate on this!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Aberdeen
Age: 64
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suspect a lad with the balls the size of his is a 'bouncer'...if this venture doesn't come off - his next one will, or the one after that.
There are those that DO and there are those that don't, (usually identifiable as the the negative posters on pprune).
Edit to say: I am a project accountant and if he wants to offer me a job - PM me!
There are those that DO and there are those that don't, (usually identifiable as the the negative posters on pprune).
Edit to say: I am a project accountant and if he wants to offer me a job - PM me!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Nothing ever happens until someone gets off their arse and does something. That seems fairly obvious, but nothing ever does, and if it means having to kick a few doors off the hinges then that's what it takes".
Quote; Collin Pilinger, Beagle 2 Project Leader.
Quote; Collin Pilinger, Beagle 2 Project Leader.