London City Airport
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Now that London has been awarded the 2012 Olympics, I wonder if that will trigger additional investment in infrastructure and services at LCY?
I know there's alot happenning already, but could certification for the A318 at LCY be hurried along now?
I know there's alot happenning already, but could certification for the A318 at LCY be hurried along now?
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As it appears, Scandinavian will also launch a CPH route to compete with BA/Sun Air. Twice daily, almost exactly the same departure times. It a 58seat Q400 vs. a 31seat D328-100.
Hear that VLM (which although headquartered in Belgium have their hub here at LCY) have taken over Denim Air, and thus have doubled their F50 fleet.
Any thoughts on the impact on LCY ? New routes in the offing ? Or are their aspirations going elsewhere.
Any thoughts on the impact on LCY ? New routes in the offing ? Or are their aspirations going elsewhere.
Hope the Newcastle operation will be by VLM rather than others, because they seem able to do things much better. The Leeds BMI route was an example, seeming slackly run (I think I was one of the few to actually use it) with only 4, later 3, round trips, with leisurely turnrounds and not very slick timings. If VLM had run it would have been a 5-a-day operation I suspect.
The GNER railway service up the east side of the country seem a much harder challenge for business traffic than the Virgin routes up the west side.
Was recently impressed while waiting to depart for MAN how VLM did a ground connection for one pax travelling Brussels - LCY - Manchester, who they got from one aircraft to another in about 60 seconds, with hold baggage too !
The GNER railway service up the east side of the country seem a much harder challenge for business traffic than the Virgin routes up the west side.
Was recently impressed while waiting to depart for MAN how VLM did a ground connection for one pax travelling Brussels - LCY - Manchester, who they got from one aircraft to another in about 60 seconds, with hold baggage too !
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Eastern are the other operator in the frame for the Newcastle route with 4 x daily. Like you I would like to see VLM take up the route.
I'm a great admirer of VLM they seem to keep their fingers on the pulse and make any route they start, work. Now with Denim now under the VLM owners control they should have enough aircraft for further expansion.
I'm a great admirer of VLM they seem to keep their fingers on the pulse and make any route they start, work. Now with Denim now under the VLM owners control they should have enough aircraft for further expansion.
Belfast City was another route I used from LCY in the past. Unfortunately the loads were just too thin, despite FlyBe having good marketing presence at the other end of the route. In the final year the Dash 8 was sometimes down to single figures for passengers.
I guess Belfast does not have a substantial London-dependent business market, and seems to be particularly price sensitive. The low-costs, particularly Easyjet, have come to dominate the market. BA, after all, dropped London to Belfast altogether and although it may be said they just wanted the Heathrow slots, note it was Belfast they pulled rather than anywhere else.
It's also a long haul for a turboprop. It's just perception though, because if you left Belfast City at the same time as BMI you could be on the ground at LCY while they were still in the Bovingdon hold, but it just seemed a long trip. Edinburgh in Scot's Dorniers seems much faster - they must have a higher cruising speed than the Dash 8.
The detailed market mix of a destination is very significant to LCY - for example, Edinburgh does so well and Glasgow so badly. There's business traffic in Glasgow, but seemingly not the right sort of business.
I guess Belfast does not have a substantial London-dependent business market, and seems to be particularly price sensitive. The low-costs, particularly Easyjet, have come to dominate the market. BA, after all, dropped London to Belfast altogether and although it may be said they just wanted the Heathrow slots, note it was Belfast they pulled rather than anywhere else.
It's also a long haul for a turboprop. It's just perception though, because if you left Belfast City at the same time as BMI you could be on the ground at LCY while they were still in the Bovingdon hold, but it just seemed a long trip. Edinburgh in Scot's Dorniers seems much faster - they must have a higher cruising speed than the Dash 8.
The detailed market mix of a destination is very significant to LCY - for example, Edinburgh does so well and Glasgow so badly. There's business traffic in Glasgow, but seemingly not the right sort of business.
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Would like to see someone(eg.Scot,Eastern,VLM)trying an ABZ route again.
Scottie dropped it at the start of 2002 post you-know-what & never brought it back.
With ABZ on the up again,maybe a better chance of success?
Although with BA vs BMI on LHR,may be not as simple as I think.
Scottie dropped it at the start of 2002 post you-know-what & never brought it back.
With ABZ on the up again,maybe a better chance of success?
Although with BA vs BMI on LHR,may be not as simple as I think.
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Might be relevant for LCY:
ACCESS ALL RUNWAYS – A318 STEEP APPROACH CERTIFICATION PROCESS
STARTS
First flight towards certification last month
Last month the A318 took a significant step towards becoming the
first Airbus aircraft to obtain certification for steep runway
approaches when it satisfactorily completed its first flight with
representatives from the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA)
on-board.
Airbus seeking 5.5 degreesteep approach for A318
Generally required in airports where there are tall obstacles close to
the runway or where there are very stringent noise restrictions,
steep approaches are classified as those with a gradient, or glide
slope, of over 4.5 degrees. Airbus is seeking an EASA approach
certification of 5.5 degrees for the A318 which is the maximum glide
slope that has been obtained by any other commercial aircraft.
Steep approach certification later this year for both powerplants
The A318 demonstrated its capacity for steep approaches during
the 2004 Farnborough International Air Show as well as this year’s
Paris Air Show but in order to obtain this certification the A320
Family’s newest member will have to demonstrate that it can safely
land with a glide slope of 7.5 degrees. It already successfully
achieved this gradient during pre-certification flight trials earlier this
year so Airbus expects to obtain certification for both the A318’s
powerplants, CFM56-5 and PW6000A, by the end of this year.
Steep approach only needs one new button on the aircraft
The certification process began in 2004 with the first handling
qualities related tests using the CFM International engine, and
preceded a year-long feasibility and evaluation study. The study
investigated the systems’ changes necessary to be able to effect
this manoeuvre, but thanks to its fly-by-wire design and integrated
digital avionics, the changes to the A318 cockpit are minimal: only
one button has been added.
Steep approaches require different air brake configuration
This new control ensures that the usual flight control protections
and warnings triggered by abnormal aerodynamic configurations
are adapted and alternative air brake configurations are activated.
In summary, a steep approach requires a specific air brake
deflection to produce the required balance between the aircraft’s lift
and speed during approach and landing.
Steep approach will offer A318 more new route opportunities for operators
Steep-approach certification has always been part of the A318
programme, and is consistent with Airbus’ policy of covering as
many market segments and operational capabilities within its
product line as is possible. Its take-off and landing performance
already allows operators to fly into airports that are operationally
unsuitable for larger aircraft. A steep approach capability with a
higher payload than similar aircraft, should provide A318 operators
with further opportunities to open up new routes in airports
hampered by severe noise restrictions, tall buildings or difficult
terrain.
ACCESS ALL RUNWAYS – A318 STEEP APPROACH CERTIFICATION PROCESS
STARTS
First flight towards certification last month
Last month the A318 took a significant step towards becoming the
first Airbus aircraft to obtain certification for steep runway
approaches when it satisfactorily completed its first flight with
representatives from the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA)
on-board.
Airbus seeking 5.5 degreesteep approach for A318
Generally required in airports where there are tall obstacles close to
the runway or where there are very stringent noise restrictions,
steep approaches are classified as those with a gradient, or glide
slope, of over 4.5 degrees. Airbus is seeking an EASA approach
certification of 5.5 degrees for the A318 which is the maximum glide
slope that has been obtained by any other commercial aircraft.
Steep approach certification later this year for both powerplants
The A318 demonstrated its capacity for steep approaches during
the 2004 Farnborough International Air Show as well as this year’s
Paris Air Show but in order to obtain this certification the A320
Family’s newest member will have to demonstrate that it can safely
land with a glide slope of 7.5 degrees. It already successfully
achieved this gradient during pre-certification flight trials earlier this
year so Airbus expects to obtain certification for both the A318’s
powerplants, CFM56-5 and PW6000A, by the end of this year.
Steep approach only needs one new button on the aircraft
The certification process began in 2004 with the first handling
qualities related tests using the CFM International engine, and
preceded a year-long feasibility and evaluation study. The study
investigated the systems’ changes necessary to be able to effect
this manoeuvre, but thanks to its fly-by-wire design and integrated
digital avionics, the changes to the A318 cockpit are minimal: only
one button has been added.
Steep approaches require different air brake configuration
This new control ensures that the usual flight control protections
and warnings triggered by abnormal aerodynamic configurations
are adapted and alternative air brake configurations are activated.
In summary, a steep approach requires a specific air brake
deflection to produce the required balance between the aircraft’s lift
and speed during approach and landing.
Steep approach will offer A318 more new route opportunities for operators
Steep-approach certification has always been part of the A318
programme, and is consistent with Airbus’ policy of covering as
many market segments and operational capabilities within its
product line as is possible. Its take-off and landing performance
already allows operators to fly into airports that are operationally
unsuitable for larger aircraft. A steep approach capability with a
higher payload than similar aircraft, should provide A318 operators
with further opportunities to open up new routes in airports
hampered by severe noise restrictions, tall buildings or difficult
terrain.
I cannot think of another A318-likely airport with a 5.5 degree approach (if there are others I will doubtless be corrected very quickly 
) so this would seem to be aimed squarely at LCY.
Does it have a larger footprint than a 146 ? If so wonder how it will be accommodated on the ground; would new gate stands be required ? Only place for such would appear to be east of the terminal building, filling in more of the KGV dock.
) so this would seem to be aimed squarely at LCY.Does it have a larger footprint than a 146 ? If so wonder how it will be accommodated on the ground; would new gate stands be required ? Only place for such would appear to be east of the terminal building, filling in more of the KGV dock.
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I think I quoted the LCY CEO earlier in this thread that performance-wise, the A318 should do nicely but that it will be a major headache on the apron at its current size.
Similar problem with the DH8-Q400 which is longer than the largest BAe 146 with a
wing span of 28.42m (93ft 3in) and a length of 32.84m (107ft 9in).
With the Avro RJ no longer produced, there clearly is a need for a 100 seat jet aircraft that can serve LCY once the Avro RJ are due for retirement.
Similar problem with the DH8-Q400 which is longer than the largest BAe 146 with a
wing span of 28.42m (93ft 3in) and a length of 32.84m (107ft 9in).
With the Avro RJ no longer produced, there clearly is a need for a 100 seat jet aircraft that can serve LCY once the Avro RJ are due for retirement.
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I wonder what the "noise factor" for the 318 vs the 146 will be, determining how many 318 flights can be fitted in to the noise contour.
http://www.lcacc.org/noise/index.html#Permitted
http://www.lcacc.org/operations/oper...ml#Limitations
http://www.lcacc.org/noise/index.html#Permitted
http://www.lcacc.org/operations/oper...ml#Limitations
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I was sworn to secrecy by my original source,however have now heard it for myself from another separate contact:
And anyway,if it happens,it happens,if it doesn't,it doesn't!
City Star apparently finalising plans to serve ABZ - LCY 3xM-F with DO328.
And anyway,if it happens,it happens,if it doesn't,it doesn't!
City Star apparently finalising plans to serve ABZ - LCY 3xM-F with DO328.
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Would have thought NCL-LCY by Eastern a non-starter, given the fares they charge. Why pay £300 to travel on a 'toy plane' when you can go by BA jet 'down the road'.
Or maybe people like being bumped around for an hour and a half (reminds them of the real flying spirit)
Or maybe people like being bumped around for an hour and a half (reminds them of the real flying spirit)