Aer Arann News and Rumours!
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There's a lot of talk about cross-subsidies etc. but that can apply any time anything is subsidised. Should Loganair have PSOs thrown at them about UK services when they have 1 PSO route from Derry?
If Air Wales have their act together they could bid for the PSOs this time (same equipment after all) - Arran held up the Dept to ransom a few years back so some competition would save the taxpayers a few bob.
If Air Wales have their act together they could bid for the PSOs this time (same equipment after all) - Arran held up the Dept to ransom a few years back so some competition would save the taxpayers a few bob.
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Going to be interesting how this whole PSO thing goes for RE.
I can picture it now "RE announced today the loss of 100 Irish jobs (wild guess!!) due to their failure to win PSO subsidies given to regional airlines that operate regional routes on behalf of the goverment. This has forced them to withdraw service on x amounts of routes. An RE spokesman said that the awarding of the PSO to BRITISH airways/ Air FRANCE/Fly BRITISH European etc has meant we have had to make 100 Irish people redundant"
Would be a political nightmare for Fianna F. Dont know if there is any elections both local etc coming up but it could be disastorous.
It would be seen as Irish jobs going to a foreign company.
Now, if Willie Walsh and the lads were to setup their new airline soon and were to run for these they might have some chance but the deadline is may I think so it would be too soon. Anyway, I dont think regional services like this are in their "charter" so to speak.......
I've no doubt the government as TTT has already mentioned have invited airlines to tender for it but I would reckon that this is only to put the squeeze on RE and get a reduction on the 19 million.
Stranger things have happen but RE will not loose these subsidies.........
I can picture it now "RE announced today the loss of 100 Irish jobs (wild guess!!) due to their failure to win PSO subsidies given to regional airlines that operate regional routes on behalf of the goverment. This has forced them to withdraw service on x amounts of routes. An RE spokesman said that the awarding of the PSO to BRITISH airways/ Air FRANCE/Fly BRITISH European etc has meant we have had to make 100 Irish people redundant"
Would be a political nightmare for Fianna F. Dont know if there is any elections both local etc coming up but it could be disastorous.
It would be seen as Irish jobs going to a foreign company.
Now, if Willie Walsh and the lads were to setup their new airline soon and were to run for these they might have some chance but the deadline is may I think so it would be too soon. Anyway, I dont think regional services like this are in their "charter" so to speak.......
I've no doubt the government as TTT has already mentioned have invited airlines to tender for it but I would reckon that this is only to put the squeeze on RE and get a reduction on the 19 million.
Stranger things have happen but RE will not loose these subsidies.........
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Sorry Eoin see where you are coming from but F. Fail - Irish ruling party does not care that much about Aer Arann. They let a highly rural farm produciton plant in Clonmel close today which is far more politically significant with more jobs and a greater impact. Aer Arann have tried hard but provided a poor service for last few months to the Irish regional airports.
Irish. Govt. ministers themselves use the service and I am sure they are not pleased. I have travelled to Galway, Derry and Kerry in last few weeks and the word locally is very bad for Aer Arann. The are getting slammed in the media in Derry and Kerry.
Now losing the JAR145 - well if that leaks to the national media - how can the Govt. defend Aer Arann. What a mess for an already troubled Irish Transport Minister. I think the Govt. may dump on Aer Arann quicker than you think. All they care about is their skins on the day.
RE tried hard but got carried away in the summer with mad cap ideas about flying to USA etc... My firends in old Aer Rianta Dublin reckon today that Irish Govt. is already working on contingnecy if Aer Arann continues non-performance over next few weeks. You have to admire RE spirit but losing the JAR!
Irish. Govt. ministers themselves use the service and I am sure they are not pleased. I have travelled to Galway, Derry and Kerry in last few weeks and the word locally is very bad for Aer Arann. The are getting slammed in the media in Derry and Kerry.
Now losing the JAR145 - well if that leaks to the national media - how can the Govt. defend Aer Arann. What a mess for an already troubled Irish Transport Minister. I think the Govt. may dump on Aer Arann quicker than you think. All they care about is their skins on the day.
RE tried hard but got carried away in the summer with mad cap ideas about flying to USA etc... My firends in old Aer Rianta Dublin reckon today that Irish Govt. is already working on contingnecy if Aer Arann continues non-performance over next few weeks. You have to admire RE spirit but losing the JAR!
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True as well I suppose nedin. And you had the beet factory in Carlow as well.
the JAR145 is serious alright. if the tabloids get hold of it, probably already have, then wait for a slow news day and we could have a screaming headline splashed across the front pages.
Fortunately/unfortunately this terrible tragedy down in Midleton will occupy the pages.
Still though, if Paddy power was quoting prices, RE would be odds on to keep the service, regardless of the dodgy goings on with them? Who knows what connections there is high up in RE and within the government?
Do the ministers and their family get special delas etc on RE services? or is it just be being naughty and trying to start something.....
the JAR145 is serious alright. if the tabloids get hold of it, probably already have, then wait for a slow news day and we could have a screaming headline splashed across the front pages.
Fortunately/unfortunately this terrible tragedy down in Midleton will occupy the pages.
Still though, if Paddy power was quoting prices, RE would be odds on to keep the service, regardless of the dodgy goings on with them? Who knows what connections there is high up in RE and within the government?
Do the ministers and their family get special delas etc on RE services? or is it just be being naughty and trying to start something.....
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To the best of my information there were two AT4s and one AT7 at Shannon. Guess they were flown there? If so, wonder what the wind was like at the time?
Anyone know what day the aeroplanes were flown to Shannon?
Anyone know what day the aeroplanes were flown to Shannon?
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The three aircraft were flown to Shannon on Tuesday, the day the airline cancelled all flights due to weather - clearly they have a different standard to other airlines with similar sized aircraft who at least attempted to fly their customers for as long as the weather would permit on Tuesday, or did they just want to save the cost of the Airbus and Foker leases?.
The three aircraft in Shannon seem to have gone into the SRS hangar (for cover in the storm?) and departed the next day (Wednesday) as RE401P (72), RE517 and RE603P (42s).
Is everything back to normal at Arran or is the guy put in by the IAA still there? How many of their own aircraft are now in service?
The three aircraft in Shannon seem to have gone into the SRS hangar (for cover in the storm?) and departed the next day (Wednesday) as RE401P (72), RE517 and RE603P (42s).
Is everything back to normal at Arran or is the guy put in by the IAA still there? How many of their own aircraft are now in service?
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Fog and drizzle at Cork since this morning. An inbound RE from Dublin diverted to Kerry so the outbound BHD pax were bussed off there for the flight and later the RE402 from BHX also diverted off to Kerry too.
RVRs at Cork have varied all morning from about 250 metres to 900 metres! The FR901 from STN and the TOM275 from CVT both diverted to Shannon. Both would have had strong outbound loads for the Munster match at Twickenham tomorrow. The Loganair pax for Glasgow were bussed to Dublin for their short flight to Scotland. Guess they are still on the road now? Poor things! Not sure what is happening with the RE EDI flight. Don't think she had operated yet today.
Boy, do we need some kind of CAT III at Cork! If money is to be wasted it might as well be on something decent like good navaids for Cork. Something for the new Chief Executive to think about.
RVRs at Cork have varied all morning from about 250 metres to 900 metres! The FR901 from STN and the TOM275 from CVT both diverted to Shannon. Both would have had strong outbound loads for the Munster match at Twickenham tomorrow. The Loganair pax for Glasgow were bussed to Dublin for their short flight to Scotland. Guess they are still on the road now? Poor things! Not sure what is happening with the RE EDI flight. Don't think she had operated yet today.
Boy, do we need some kind of CAT III at Cork! If money is to be wasted it might as well be on something decent like good navaids for Cork. Something for the new Chief Executive to think about.
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Aer Arann News and Rumours!
Aer Arann are in negotiations to be launching services from Luton to Londonderry and Cork for the summer, the Cork service is rumoured to to twice daily.
Also heard rumours they may base an ATR-72 at Luton.
Giles
Also heard rumours they may base an ATR-72 at Luton.
Giles
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I can picture it now "RE announced today the loss of 100 Irish jobs (wild guess!!) due to their failure to win PSO subsidies given to regional airlines that operate regional routes on behalf of the goverment. This has forced them to withdraw service on x amounts of routes. An RE spokesman said that the awarding of the PSO to BRITISH airways/ Air FRANCE/Fly BRITISH European etc has meant we have had to make 100 Irish people redundant"
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Indeed piston pete.
Trying to restrict PSOs to Irish airlines would be one good way to get Brussels to squash 'em - which may be why Loganair has LDY-DUB!
Trying to restrict PSOs to Irish airlines would be one good way to get Brussels to squash 'em - which may be why Loganair has LDY-DUB!
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Aer Arann thinking about Cork - Derry!? Ha, one good way of putting it up to Jet 2 on the new service from Belfast? Great, if true! Are there dual carrigeway/motorway type roads between Belfast and Derry? It is funny as there was talk today at Cork of how Jet 2 will do from Belfast and one idea was that Jet 2 might be able to pick up traffic from people whose onward destinations might be in the Derry and Donegal area.
The installation costs of CAT3 at Cork? Well, the first thing to do is ask the around 20,000 diverted passengers from Cork last year their opinion on a CAT III at Cork if it meant they had successfully completed their flights at Cork rather than having to divert to Shannon, Kerry and Dublin.
The costs of a CATIII would pay for itself in short order over a few years in the money saved in paying for diversions, passenger inconvenience and extra crew costs etc. Remember here we are talking about Cork and her long history of 5h!t poor weather. Cork Airport needs all the help it can get in terms of good, reliable navaids.
The installation costs of CAT3 at Cork? Well, the first thing to do is ask the around 20,000 diverted passengers from Cork last year their opinion on a CAT III at Cork if it meant they had successfully completed their flights at Cork rather than having to divert to Shannon, Kerry and Dublin.
The costs of a CATIII would pay for itself in short order over a few years in the money saved in paying for diversions, passenger inconvenience and extra crew costs etc. Remember here we are talking about Cork and her long history of 5h!t poor weather. Cork Airport needs all the help it can get in terms of good, reliable navaids.
Last edited by Tom the Tenor; 15th Jan 2005 at 18:25.
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Yes, you do have a point. I would settle for RE doing CATII approaches at Cork instead of sometimes looking for 900 metre RVRs! We can then talk about the CATIIIs! Gee, sometimes you would be forgiven for thinking RE want RVRs longer than some runways!
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If this new terminal extension wasn't on the stocks it might be better to consider a new airport... somewhere flatter, hopefully.
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piston pete - I agree with what you say as well, I was just putting on my tabloid/unions hat there and was coming up with a dramatic headline.
I do think our goverment is becoming more socialist and so is the general public. It is now a case of who can give the best value for money as opposed to keeping people in jobs.
We have seen this happening with the likes of FR. People are flocking to them because of their prices etc and leaving EI high and dry. No sentiments of keeping "our national airline" going. I know the argument is there that FR is an Irish airline, but that is almost now a flag of convenience......
Anyway, this thread is about RE, we wont get into any other side debates
Mark D - I cant remember the circumstances, but I have heard before from some "of the old stock" to coin a phrase that the airport should have been built down around little island/ carrigtwohill (or European spelling of Carrigtohill
). It was the other site proposed but apparently is was a political decision to build it up there. I wont even hazard a guess, maybe someone else here might know why it was built where it is now.......
I do think our goverment is becoming more socialist and so is the general public. It is now a case of who can give the best value for money as opposed to keeping people in jobs.
We have seen this happening with the likes of FR. People are flocking to them because of their prices etc and leaving EI high and dry. No sentiments of keeping "our national airline" going. I know the argument is there that FR is an Irish airline, but that is almost now a flag of convenience......
Anyway, this thread is about RE, we wont get into any other side debates
Mark D - I cant remember the circumstances, but I have heard before from some "of the old stock" to coin a phrase that the airport should have been built down around little island/ carrigtwohill (or European spelling of Carrigtohill
). It was the other site proposed but apparently is was a political decision to build it up there. I wont even hazard a guess, maybe someone else here might know why it was built where it is now.......
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Did any heads roll at RE after the ATR72 flight/JAR145 situation?
For anyone interested in how the PSOs are viewed, take a look at http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/4803-0.pdf , the report by DKM for the government issued last year. Reading between the lines, Knock is very difficult to justify, the main purpose of Galway and Kerry (feed to Europe) is dead and gone and the requirements set out by the government (redeyes, 50-seat aircraft etc.) are considered mostly irrelevant going forward. Also, if the rumour factory is correct, it will not just be Arran and Loganair in the frame for the new round of contracts due to be advertised.
Arran need to find other routes which are profitable without so much reliance on PSO funds and also need to see what impact bmiBaby on Birmingham-CRK and Jet2 on BFS will have on their current services. A prudent Arran (unless they get a nod and a wink from insiders in the government) would hold off launching any new routes until they know what the fleet needs for their PSO routes (if any) will be after June. If they lose Kerry, for example, will their non-PSO routes from Kerry also be dropped?
The times they are a-changing...
For anyone interested in how the PSOs are viewed, take a look at http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/4803-0.pdf , the report by DKM for the government issued last year. Reading between the lines, Knock is very difficult to justify, the main purpose of Galway and Kerry (feed to Europe) is dead and gone and the requirements set out by the government (redeyes, 50-seat aircraft etc.) are considered mostly irrelevant going forward. Also, if the rumour factory is correct, it will not just be Arran and Loganair in the frame for the new round of contracts due to be advertised.
Arran need to find other routes which are profitable without so much reliance on PSO funds and also need to see what impact bmiBaby on Birmingham-CRK and Jet2 on BFS will have on their current services. A prudent Arran (unless they get a nod and a wink from insiders in the government) would hold off launching any new routes until they know what the fleet needs for their PSO routes (if any) will be after June. If they lose Kerry, for example, will their non-PSO routes from Kerry also be dropped?
The times they are a-changing...
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JAR 145 issue was a storm in a teacup perhaps...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...441871,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...441871,00.html