BAA forced to accept 50% of Ross - Ryanair case
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BAA forced to accept 50% of Ross - Ryanair case
News Release
21.12.04
RYANAIR WELCOME COURT OF APPEAL DECISION
TO FORCE BAA STANSTED TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY
FOR WHEELCHAIR SERVICES
Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 low fares airline today (Tuesday, 21st December 2004) welcomed the Court of Appeal’s decision to overturn the previous County Court ruling in the Ross case, and finally establish the responsibility of the British Airport Authority to provide for wheelchair assistance for passengers.
The Court of Appeal’s decision establishes a 50/50 responsibility upon BAA Stansted and the airlines for the provision of wheelchair services through the terminal building at Stansted Airport. Ryanair is disappointed that the Court of Appeal did not establish that the BAA was 100% responsible - as is the case with the owners of all other public buildings - for wheelchair access, however the Court of Appeal’s decision to clearly impose a 50% responsibility on the BAA will be welcomed by all airlines using BAA airports, as well as by disabled passengers.
Today’s judgement concluded that:
The original County Court judge was “wrong to acquit BAA Stansted of responsibility”
BAA Stansted’s “failure is a serious one”
BAA Stansted “unlawfully discriminated against Mr. Ross”
In keeping with this announcement today, Ryanair accordingly will be reducing its wheelchair levy by 50%, and we will be continuing our campaign to persuade the BAA monopoly airports in London to provide a free of charge wheelchair assistance service to the disabled, in line with custom and practice at 87 of Ryanair’s 93 European airports, and also in line with the current European Union draft disability paper which states “there is a strong case for making the airport manager responsible for organising and financing the assistance of people with reduced mobility who need to use air transport”. Ryanair fully supports and endorses this view.
Welcoming today’s victory at the Court of Appeal, Ryanair’s Head of Communications, Paul Fitzsimmons, said:
“We welcome the decision by the Court of Appeal to clearly and unambiguously impose a responsibility upon the British Airports Authority to provide for wheelchair access through its terminal buildings. Today’s decision vindicates Ryanair’s decision to appeal the Ross case, and highlights again that Ryanair is fighting on behalf of disabled passengers to force those few airport managers, such as the BAA, to provide free of charge wheelchair access in a manner similar to most other European airports. Ryanair will continue to fight to lower the cost of air travel for all passengers and it is not unreasonable that the very rich owners of terminal buildings such as BAA Stansted should be responsible for providing free of charge wheelchair access through these complicated terminal buildings for those with limited mobility”.
21.12.04
RYANAIR WELCOME COURT OF APPEAL DECISION
TO FORCE BAA STANSTED TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY
FOR WHEELCHAIR SERVICES
Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 low fares airline today (Tuesday, 21st December 2004) welcomed the Court of Appeal’s decision to overturn the previous County Court ruling in the Ross case, and finally establish the responsibility of the British Airport Authority to provide for wheelchair assistance for passengers.
The Court of Appeal’s decision establishes a 50/50 responsibility upon BAA Stansted and the airlines for the provision of wheelchair services through the terminal building at Stansted Airport. Ryanair is disappointed that the Court of Appeal did not establish that the BAA was 100% responsible - as is the case with the owners of all other public buildings - for wheelchair access, however the Court of Appeal’s decision to clearly impose a 50% responsibility on the BAA will be welcomed by all airlines using BAA airports, as well as by disabled passengers.
Today’s judgement concluded that:
The original County Court judge was “wrong to acquit BAA Stansted of responsibility”
BAA Stansted’s “failure is a serious one”
BAA Stansted “unlawfully discriminated against Mr. Ross”
In keeping with this announcement today, Ryanair accordingly will be reducing its wheelchair levy by 50%, and we will be continuing our campaign to persuade the BAA monopoly airports in London to provide a free of charge wheelchair assistance service to the disabled, in line with custom and practice at 87 of Ryanair’s 93 European airports, and also in line with the current European Union draft disability paper which states “there is a strong case for making the airport manager responsible for organising and financing the assistance of people with reduced mobility who need to use air transport”. Ryanair fully supports and endorses this view.
Welcoming today’s victory at the Court of Appeal, Ryanair’s Head of Communications, Paul Fitzsimmons, said:
“We welcome the decision by the Court of Appeal to clearly and unambiguously impose a responsibility upon the British Airports Authority to provide for wheelchair access through its terminal buildings. Today’s decision vindicates Ryanair’s decision to appeal the Ross case, and highlights again that Ryanair is fighting on behalf of disabled passengers to force those few airport managers, such as the BAA, to provide free of charge wheelchair access in a manner similar to most other European airports. Ryanair will continue to fight to lower the cost of air travel for all passengers and it is not unreasonable that the very rich owners of terminal buildings such as BAA Stansted should be responsible for providing free of charge wheelchair access through these complicated terminal buildings for those with limited mobility”.
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Yes it was from the Ryanair site. Here is also one from the RTE news site though just to confirm it.
50-50 ruling in Ryanair wheelchair case
December 21, 2004 11:19
The Court of Appeal in London has ruled that airlines and airports share the responsibility to provide wheelchairs for disabled passengers.
Ryanair was trying to overturn an earlier judgment that it discriminated against a disabled man who was charged £18 for the use of a wheelchair at London's Stansted airport. The man, Bob Ross, was awarded more than £1,300 in damages by a county court.
Ryanair lost its appeal that the claim against it should be dismissed, but the judges ruled that Stansted also unlawfully discriminated against the traveller and should share the liability over damages and interest.
Ryanair said it welcomed the ruling, adding that it would reduce its wheelchair levy by 50%, though it expressed disappointment that the court did not establish that BAA, the owner of Stansted, was 100% responsible.
50-50 ruling in Ryanair wheelchair case
December 21, 2004 11:19
The Court of Appeal in London has ruled that airlines and airports share the responsibility to provide wheelchairs for disabled passengers.
Ryanair was trying to overturn an earlier judgment that it discriminated against a disabled man who was charged £18 for the use of a wheelchair at London's Stansted airport. The man, Bob Ross, was awarded more than £1,300 in damages by a county court.
Ryanair lost its appeal that the claim against it should be dismissed, but the judges ruled that Stansted also unlawfully discriminated against the traveller and should share the liability over damages and interest.
Ryanair said it welcomed the ruling, adding that it would reduce its wheelchair levy by 50%, though it expressed disappointment that the court did not establish that BAA, the owner of Stansted, was 100% responsible.
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Surely Ryanair should not have to have a "wheelchair levy" at all since it should be a cost borne by the airline as all others do. Given that Ryanair carry somewhere around 24 million even reducing their levy by 50% will gain them a nice tidy sum (sorry can't find what the actual charge is, but will update this when I do).
ps please tell Ryanair that the BAA does not stand for the British Airports Authority anymore.
ps please tell Ryanair that the BAA does not stand for the British Airports Authority anymore.
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Its not much of a service... I waited for an hour and a half the other day to have my (pre-booked) wheelchair passenger taken away (at 0100).
The more things change, the more they remain the same...
The more things change, the more they remain the same...
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Of course they shouldn't have to have a wheelchair levy, but it's an elegant way of screwing some more money out of the punters.
According to the Ryanair news release archive (see 6 Feb 2004 under "News" on www.ryanair.com), they are charging £0.35 or €0.50 per passenger sector as a wheelchair levy, presumably now to be halved. They also say that the cost of providing wheelchair assistance at STN (which they have to pay) is £18.00 (which I assume will now also be halved).
So that levy covers 1 in 36 of all FR passengers needing wheelchair assistance at an airport that doesn't provide it to FR for free. And I'm sure that's a perfectly reasonable ratio - I mean, if on average there were fewer than five wheelchair passengers on every full 737-800, that would mean Ryanair was profiteering, and that could never be... could it?
According to the Ryanair news release archive (see 6 Feb 2004 under "News" on www.ryanair.com), they are charging £0.35 or €0.50 per passenger sector as a wheelchair levy, presumably now to be halved. They also say that the cost of providing wheelchair assistance at STN (which they have to pay) is £18.00 (which I assume will now also be halved).
So that levy covers 1 in 36 of all FR passengers needing wheelchair assistance at an airport that doesn't provide it to FR for free. And I'm sure that's a perfectly reasonable ratio - I mean, if on average there were fewer than five wheelchair passengers on every full 737-800, that would mean Ryanair was profiteering, and that could never be... could it?
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Passenger View?
Hang on a moment! I'm a regular RYR passenger, why should I have to subsidise another passenger who requires special handling?......perhaps said passenger should restrict his/her travel to airlines that provide freeby wheelchairs......bit more homework before travel methinks.
Don't understand how BAA can own the terminal but not be responsible for wheelchair transit from desk to gate.....I see they re-assume responsibility back on the tarmac to levy parking and gate charges. My tickets only seem to be valid for air travel and not for ground transportation, furthermore the massive portion of what I pay seems to be in airport taxes and charges, with RYR only getting the tiniest fraction of my final bill.
Don't understand how BAA can own the terminal but not be responsible for wheelchair transit from desk to gate.....I see they re-assume responsibility back on the tarmac to levy parking and gate charges. My tickets only seem to be valid for air travel and not for ground transportation, furthermore the massive portion of what I pay seems to be in airport taxes and charges, with RYR only getting the tiniest fraction of my final bill.
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055166k
May I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Safe, Prosperous and Peaceful New Year.
More importantly I hope nothing befalls you in 2005 that means you become a wheelchair user.
I would be so upset to think of you "sponging" like those of us who have no choice.
Sir George Cayley
More importantly I hope nothing befalls you in 2005 that means you become a wheelchair user.
I would be so upset to think of you "sponging" like those of us who have no choice.
Sir George Cayley
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I wrote on this subject on the original thread at the time of the first ruling,and was saddened but not altogether surprised at the lack of understanding of some able bodied travellers,so for their enlightenment include a part of that post.....
<Some posters seem to suggest that some disabled passengers are faking their condition and milking the situation.They should pull their weight a little more and pay for any service received.They may be surprised to know that my wife totally agrees with their views.She is mortified at the attention she gets and horrified at the problems her condition causes other people.This worries her to the extent that she will walk,climb stairs and stand in line whenever possible. I, however, am only too aware just how much this small statement of independance is seriously affecting her declining strength and ability to cope with simple things.......like breathing. The loss of self esteem suffered by the disabled, (and the need for constant attention from other people is a major factor in this loss of independance), is a situation which the normal able bodied passenger cannot begin to understand.
May I humbly suggest that before making rash statements or reaching over hasty judgements a little thought and consideration is used.>
All that being said we do not mind paying for a service but find the Ryannair attitude less than acceptable so we choose to travel with "real" airlines as long as they exist.
<Some posters seem to suggest that some disabled passengers are faking their condition and milking the situation.They should pull their weight a little more and pay for any service received.They may be surprised to know that my wife totally agrees with their views.She is mortified at the attention she gets and horrified at the problems her condition causes other people.This worries her to the extent that she will walk,climb stairs and stand in line whenever possible. I, however, am only too aware just how much this small statement of independance is seriously affecting her declining strength and ability to cope with simple things.......like breathing. The loss of self esteem suffered by the disabled, (and the need for constant attention from other people is a major factor in this loss of independance), is a situation which the normal able bodied passenger cannot begin to understand.
May I humbly suggest that before making rash statements or reaching over hasty judgements a little thought and consideration is used.>
All that being said we do not mind paying for a service but find the Ryannair attitude less than acceptable so we choose to travel with "real" airlines as long as they exist.
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055166k - i think you may want to edit your post you ignorant little man.
i am a right leg below amputee who uses a wheel chair for obvious reasons..... and for you to say what you have done and accuse me of being a 'sponger' and suggest i look else where for my flight i think is disgracful.
i only read these forum so wasnt a member until 5 mins ago when i saw your post and there was no way i was gonna let it go..... and im not gonna hide behind some handle you can see who is calling you a good for nothing ignorant offensive ****e.
i do hope you or your family never have to suufer the indignaty (sp) that being a wheelchair user can bring..... then again.... maybe i do! and FYI i am a PPL in training so im not some oik who just reads random forum.... i love the world of aviation and people like you just wanna make me sick.
rant over.
oh.... and on another note... my fiance is (as of 4 weeks ago) currently working for wheelchair services at STD. hhmmmm..... heard some very interesting things both for and against. so dont now try and tell me i havent got a clue what im talking about.
i am a right leg below amputee who uses a wheel chair for obvious reasons..... and for you to say what you have done and accuse me of being a 'sponger' and suggest i look else where for my flight i think is disgracful.
i only read these forum so wasnt a member until 5 mins ago when i saw your post and there was no way i was gonna let it go..... and im not gonna hide behind some handle you can see who is calling you a good for nothing ignorant offensive ****e.
i do hope you or your family never have to suufer the indignaty (sp) that being a wheelchair user can bring..... then again.... maybe i do! and FYI i am a PPL in training so im not some oik who just reads random forum.... i love the world of aviation and people like you just wanna make me sick.
rant over.
oh.... and on another note... my fiance is (as of 4 weeks ago) currently working for wheelchair services at STD. hhmmmm..... heard some very interesting things both for and against. so dont now try and tell me i havent got a clue what im talking about.
A couple of points to the self righteous anti ryanairs amongst us:-
Full fare carriers have always said that the provision of Wheelchair costs are included in their overall ticket prices; in other words they levy a little extra on each ticket just the same as Ryanairs levy. So why is it wrong for Ryanair to do this?
Tony Norman, nobody in the industry has anything but understanding for people who travel by air despite their having a serious and genuine disability. Unfortunately there are also a considerable number of people who have no disability but still insist on requesting Wheelchair assistance, presumably so that they don't have to walk too far, and they also think they will be whisked through Customs and Immigration faster. One of the biggest wastes of resource/manpower for the wheelchair companies is getting a request from the inbound aircraft for a number of wheelchairs to meet on arrival, only for the pax to decide that they'll walk!! This selfishness by able bodied people delays the resource/manpower getting to an aircraft that has someone who genuinely needs a wheelchair.
It is a haphazard guesstimate for the Wheelchair companies in trying to assess staffing and resource needs. Some days there will be plenty of passengers needing assistance, on others very few, but they won't know which type of day it is until the day of operation.
It is the easiest service in the business to adopt a superior 'they couldn't organise a party in a brewery' attitude to, but then most of those that adopt that attitude have NIL experience of it
FYI Tony.... Is it more likely your fiance works at STN? STD is the 3 letter code for Mayo Guerrero Apt in Venezuela. Picky I know but it does make a difference if the wrong 3 letter code is used.
Full fare carriers have always said that the provision of Wheelchair costs are included in their overall ticket prices; in other words they levy a little extra on each ticket just the same as Ryanairs levy. So why is it wrong for Ryanair to do this?
Tony Norman, nobody in the industry has anything but understanding for people who travel by air despite their having a serious and genuine disability. Unfortunately there are also a considerable number of people who have no disability but still insist on requesting Wheelchair assistance, presumably so that they don't have to walk too far, and they also think they will be whisked through Customs and Immigration faster. One of the biggest wastes of resource/manpower for the wheelchair companies is getting a request from the inbound aircraft for a number of wheelchairs to meet on arrival, only for the pax to decide that they'll walk!! This selfishness by able bodied people delays the resource/manpower getting to an aircraft that has someone who genuinely needs a wheelchair.
It is a haphazard guesstimate for the Wheelchair companies in trying to assess staffing and resource needs. Some days there will be plenty of passengers needing assistance, on others very few, but they won't know which type of day it is until the day of operation.
It is the easiest service in the business to adopt a superior 'they couldn't organise a party in a brewery' attitude to, but then most of those that adopt that attitude have NIL experience of it
FYI Tony.... Is it more likely your fiance works at STN? STD is the 3 letter code for Mayo Guerrero Apt in Venezuela. Picky I know but it does make a difference if the wrong 3 letter code is used.
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FYI Tony.... Is it more likely your fiance works at STN? STD is the 3 letter code for Mayo Guerrero Apt in Venezuela. Picky I know but it does make a difference if the wrong 3 letter code is used.
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i agree with you on the fakers point. my other half has already seen loads of it..... assistance upto the gate and then they just up and walk off!!! what the hel!?!? the problem she has (not told directly but i get this impression) is staffing levels.... it seems she doesnt have enough people to do all the 'taking' and 'fetching' but as you say.... how on earth can your predict how many people will need that service.... yeah i know you have your bre-booked but what do you do on days when its quite.... send you workforce home? no... you just employ less people because others wise you'd be throwing your money away and eating at profits whilst staff eat in the canteen! at the end of the day a service is provided, but no service is perfect.... we dont call a cab on a friday night and when told 'its gonna be 1 hour' hot the roof cos thats no good enough rar de rar.... because how can the compnay predict a busier than normal day? they cant...... its the same for wheelchair services..... anyhow.... im going abit off topic hear because it was copst we were talking about not man power.....
Roghead: is that aimed at me?? or did my post get the first as it were??
Roghead: is that aimed at me?? or did my post get the first as it were??
What a strange response Roghead
I have re-read your post and I think my post backs up your point indirectly. I have experienced first hand people who ask for a wheelchair to the gate, then go off on their own to do the duty free shopping, arrive back laden with packages announcing 'that's why I need the WCHR, couldn't walk that far with so much shopping, I'd drop some of it!'. I have spoken with cabin crew who have taken time and trouble to arrange for the flight deck to radio ahead with requests for wheelchairs, only for the pax to see that they have arrived at a stand close by the Terminal and they have then dashed off the aircraft. These are not people in any way shape or form similar to your wife, these are pax who are in no way inconvenienced health wise and who are abusing the system set up for the benefit of people like your wife.
I have re-read your post and I think my post backs up your point indirectly. I have experienced first hand people who ask for a wheelchair to the gate, then go off on their own to do the duty free shopping, arrive back laden with packages announcing 'that's why I need the WCHR, couldn't walk that far with so much shopping, I'd drop some of it!'. I have spoken with cabin crew who have taken time and trouble to arrange for the flight deck to radio ahead with requests for wheelchairs, only for the pax to see that they have arrived at a stand close by the Terminal and they have then dashed off the aircraft. These are not people in any way shape or form similar to your wife, these are pax who are in no way inconvenienced health wise and who are abusing the system set up for the benefit of people like your wife.
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What a shame that the Court of Appeal didn't see fit to order Ryanair to hand over to BAA 50% of the revenues it has been collecting from punters travelling from STN - less the usual low cost "admin" charge of course 
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Thanks Surely Not. I retreat back to my corner. Unfortunately my wife will walk( from her chair) at times when she thinks it will "help" but will then collapse after 50 yds. I get annoyed with her, the world and if I were to think about it, the fakers who give her a bad name.
However I'll still avoid MOL airways when travelling with my wife but will accept the drawbacks (but cheap fares) when travelling alone.
However I'll still avoid MOL airways when travelling with my wife but will accept the drawbacks (but cheap fares) when travelling alone.