Carlisle-Luton to start by summer 2005
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Carlisle-Luton to start by summer 2005
According to a report in this local paper , a Bath based travel consortium has plans to fly from Carlisle -Luton with a Carlisle based Bae 146-100.
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
Alba Gu Brath
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Initial thoughts are - Is it April 1st already? 
Have they really done their homework on this? What size of market is there in the Carlisle area for a daily LTN service, can't be that much one would have thought. Road links to MAN from Preston and Lancaster are pretty good, plus you wouldn't really wanna go North to then come South again. Can't see many people coming across from the Newcastle area to take a flight from Carlisle. Likewise I would've thought that GLA & PIK were just as convenient for those North of the border.
Even with the supposed link into EZY routes, I can't see it being a roaring success, especially with a BAe146. Surely a smaller capacity turbo-prop would have been a better aircraft to start such a route with, even then I can't see it being viable.
Have they really done their homework on this? What size of market is there in the Carlisle area for a daily LTN service, can't be that much one would have thought. Road links to MAN from Preston and Lancaster are pretty good, plus you wouldn't really wanna go North to then come South again. Can't see many people coming across from the Newcastle area to take a flight from Carlisle. Likewise I would've thought that GLA & PIK were just as convenient for those North of the border.
Even with the supposed link into EZY routes, I can't see it being a roaring success, especially with a BAe146. Surely a smaller capacity turbo-prop would have been a better aircraft to start such a route with, even then I can't see it being viable.
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Have to agree with you BT, this is really is a non-starter with a 146, ATR42 or smaller, an outside chance of success but still very doubtfull.
As for linking in with easy's route structure from LTN, an evening arrival into LTN would result in about 80% of easy's flights that day having already departed. However, note, it is really aimed at LTN originating pax doing business in the north. Little chance of success in present format.
As for linking in with easy's route structure from LTN, an evening arrival into LTN would result in about 80% of easy's flights that day having already departed. However, note, it is really aimed at LTN originating pax doing business in the north. Little chance of success in present format.
Alba Gu Brath
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I can see there is a market to be opened up there, but I wouldn't have thought this was the best way to go about it. As Powerjet has said the links into the EZY network are tenuous to say the least, which leaves either the Carlisle people going to London (getting in late in the evening) or the City folk going out to the provinces. Is there really that much business going on in Carlisle to warrant a daily service. I know Eddie Stobart is doing well but I didn't realise that his bankers were going to see him! 
I would have thought the better way to open up somewhere like Carlisle would be on a double drop basis, i.e. Carlisle-LTN-AMS rather than doing it point to point.
I'm a bit sceptical about the council opening up another junction off the M6. I think they'd want to see more than a couple of flights a day before they would even consider that one.
Just my inane ramblings on the subject.
I would have thought the better way to open up somewhere like Carlisle would be on a double drop basis, i.e. Carlisle-LTN-AMS rather than doing it point to point.
I'm a bit sceptical about the council opening up another junction off the M6. I think they'd want to see more than a couple of flights a day before they would even consider that one.
Just my inane ramblings on the subject.
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if you think blackppol airport is bad, go to this place - it's like something out of the war. last lot to try it were euroair with a 748 then somelot with a viscount before that. years ago mind. a complete waste of time and money.
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Or the guy in the League of Gentlemen. "Hey, what a great untapped market - no-one else as flown there since '76."
6 months later:
"Why did no one fill my planes. It's a **** business"
Maybe we're being a bit too cynical - there must be a fair sized market wanting to visit the Lake District, but compared to taking the train to Oxenholme or driving up the M6, would an air service really offer much advantage?
6 months later:
"Why did no one fill my planes. It's a **** business"
Maybe we're being a bit too cynical - there must be a fair sized market wanting to visit the Lake District, but compared to taking the train to Oxenholme or driving up the M6, would an air service really offer much advantage?
Agreed the 146 seems overkill - believe Scot Airways looked at doing Carlisle to London City a while ago with one of their Do 328s, a 30 seat turboprop, and decided against it.
There is considerable industry at Workington/Whitehaven whose nearest airports are Manchester or Newcastle which take hours to get to (please don't get clever and say their nearest airport is Ronaldsway !), and there's Dumfries and area in Scotland, likewise a long way from Prestwick. Both would also find Carlisle convenient. LCY could have given "proper" connections to Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt etc.
Shall I really show my age and recall Autair doing Luton-Blackpool-Carlisle-Dundee with 748s in the 1960s !
There is considerable industry at Workington/Whitehaven whose nearest airports are Manchester or Newcastle which take hours to get to (please don't get clever and say their nearest airport is Ronaldsway !), and there's Dumfries and area in Scotland, likewise a long way from Prestwick. Both would also find Carlisle convenient. LCY could have given "proper" connections to Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt etc.
Yer showing yer age now dada !
Alba Gu Brath
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No dispute on the amount of industry in the Carlisle area, I'm sure Sellafield (or whatever it is called today) would also welcome air links with the capital. I just question how much they would actually use the service in reality, particularly on the timetables that are proposed. It would appear that any crews would be Carlisle based with the aircraft. On the proposed schedule that is going to mean hotacing the crew in LTN overnight, that's a straight cost of £200-£300 per night. Add on to that the overnight parking at LTN and you are looking at decent loads (or very high ticket prices) just to break even. I would have thought that using Carlisle as a through stop to pick up / drop off would have been a safer starting point for such a route.
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Why go to LTN and not LCY?
Why serve London in the evening - useless for business men?
Would an ATR have been cheaper?
Why not do scheduled flights to Dublin and Isle Of Man?
Why serve London in the evening - useless for business men?
Would an ATR have been cheaper?
Why not do scheduled flights to Dublin and Isle Of Man?
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The idea of operating a 146-100 on any route is absurd. Having managed the commercial,operations of the things I know just what a financial disaster they are. To combine them with a thin route like Carlisle to anywhere is a certain way to lose money. Breakeven load factor will be about 200%. But if that is the way they want to throw their money away then let them do it.
As has already been posted Autair did operate the route in the 1960's. Carlisle was a stop en route to Dundee. As I recall it they used the Ambassador. Hopeless and it didn't last long.
As has already been posted Autair did operate the route in the 1960's. Carlisle was a stop en route to Dundee. As I recall it they used the Ambassador. Hopeless and it didn't last long.
niknak
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Carlisle to anywhere is a non starter, the west coast rail line upgrade is almost complete and it's only 45 minutes drive to Newcastle, where you can travel to London (or anywhere else) far more cheaply than you ever would from Carlisle.
Failing that, Edinburgh is only an hours drive away, with similar air routes available.
I'm not optomistic about about the future of Carlisle airport, after getting through about 5 airport managers in 2 years or so, it makes you wonder why the whole place isn't a building site.
Failing that, Edinburgh is only an hours drive away, with similar air routes available.
I'm not optomistic about about the future of Carlisle airport, after getting through about 5 airport managers in 2 years or so, it makes you wonder why the whole place isn't a building site.
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You would have to be doing 97.9 mph all the way to do Carlisle to Edinburgh in an hour! Just checked on the AA website. They say it's 2 hours 4 minutes. But then I'm just splitting hairs!
I do agree Carlisle is a non-starter. The link mentioned £200 fare. I would definately choose another way.
I do agree Carlisle is a non-starter. The link mentioned £200 fare. I would definately choose another way.
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Maybe the route would work weekly but I doubt it very much.
I think Carlise airport should attempt to try and get some summer charters running from the airport as the links to Dublin, London, Paris and Amsterdam are a non starter.
I think Carlise airport should attempt to try and get some summer charters running from the airport as the links to Dublin, London, Paris and Amsterdam are a non starter.
