Eastern Airways
Join Date: May 2002
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Nice Jam. Currently, St. Pancras station is being rebuilt to accommodate new Eurostar services.
Think you find in a year or so a short walk from Kings X to St. Pancras will cut out a tube/bus journey.
Think you find in a year or so a short walk from Kings X to St. Pancras will cut out a tube/bus journey.
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Not been to Humberside for years but in the early '90s remember regular Intercity 125 trains from Habrough (couple of miles from the airport) to London and indeed when I made the trip it took just two hours. Has this service stopped now? Always thought it unusual that a tiny village saw so many trains, the 125s overhung the small platform at both ends! Rationale presumably was close proximity to Immingham and the airport, neither of which had their own rail link.
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Niknak,
Reference your quote:
"From Humberside's nearest railway station, you can get to London in under 2 hours, then to central Brussels in another 1hr45mins, at a return 1st class fare of under £200.
Whilst that is a 3 and 3/4 hour trip, compare it with a similar amount of time to travel to HUY airport, check in 45mins before, wait for the aeroplane, possible delays due tech/wx/etc, 1hr 30min flight, wait at BRU for baggage (30mins), taxi or bus to centre of BRU - another 45 mins."
This is a slight exaggeration regards time for the rail journey; The shortest time from Barnetby to London Kings X..2hr 23mins. (Most trains actually take @2hr 45mins) Then you have to get to Waterloo to catch the Eurostar.. say 45mins transfer at the best of times. Then the 1hr 45min trip to Brussels.
I make that at least 4 hr 53 mins.
Reference your quote:
"From Humberside's nearest railway station, you can get to London in under 2 hours, then to central Brussels in another 1hr45mins, at a return 1st class fare of under £200.
Whilst that is a 3 and 3/4 hour trip, compare it with a similar amount of time to travel to HUY airport, check in 45mins before, wait for the aeroplane, possible delays due tech/wx/etc, 1hr 30min flight, wait at BRU for baggage (30mins), taxi or bus to centre of BRU - another 45 mins."
This is a slight exaggeration regards time for the rail journey; The shortest time from Barnetby to London Kings X..2hr 23mins. (Most trains actually take @2hr 45mins) Then you have to get to Waterloo to catch the Eurostar.. say 45mins transfer at the best of times. Then the 1hr 45min trip to Brussels.
I make that at least 4 hr 53 mins.
I flew from Southampton to LBA on Eastern this afternoon. The aircraft operating the Newcastle trip was a J41 (G-MAJC for the spotters among you), no sign of the Saab 2000.
It was also a J41 on the LBA trip. Sooper flight by the way, lovely weather, no turbulence and a delightful stewardess from the old days. Shame about the ticket price though.
It was also a J41 on the LBA trip. Sooper flight by the way, lovely weather, no turbulence and a delightful stewardess from the old days. Shame about the ticket price though.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Mooncrest,
The afternoon NCL-SOU-NCL rotation is scheduled on a J41. The morning and evening rotations are currently on the ERJ. The Saab 2000 is currently operating NWI-ABZ but may be returning to ABZ-NCL-SOU for the winter.
The afternoon NCL-SOU-NCL rotation is scheduled on a J41. The morning and evening rotations are currently on the ERJ. The Saab 2000 is currently operating NWI-ABZ but may be returning to ABZ-NCL-SOU for the winter.
niknak
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Jump
The Norwich - Gronigen was a short term series of charters on behalf of BP, it was never destined to be a long term thing, although it appeared as a schedule service so that any spare seats could be taken advantage of - that rarely happened.
It now operates once, maybe a maximum of twice per week, (sometimes only fortnightly), usually by other charter operators, and the aircraft depends on the load factor.
Whispers are that Eastern are negotiating the lease of another Saab2000, it certainly seems far more practical on the NWI - ABZ route than the EMB135.
The Norwich - Gronigen was a short term series of charters on behalf of BP, it was never destined to be a long term thing, although it appeared as a schedule service so that any spare seats could be taken advantage of - that rarely happened.
It now operates once, maybe a maximum of twice per week, (sometimes only fortnightly), usually by other charter operators, and the aircraft depends on the load factor.
Whispers are that Eastern are negotiating the lease of another Saab2000, it certainly seems far more practical on the NWI - ABZ route than the EMB135.
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Been looking back at routes previously flown from HUY over the past 20 years and the operators of said same routes, quite depressing reading actually
Eastern Mk I
Air UK
Genair
Air Ecosse
Peregrine Aw
Aberdeen Aw
Gamma Aviation
Brown Air
Skyrover
Eurodirect
Gill Aw
Citi-bus
Eastern Aw
Klm
And presume there are more (No doubt someone can add to these) but if this is just one typical example of one regional airport then what does the future hold for airports of this type throughout the UK.
Eastern Mk I
Air UK
Genair
Air Ecosse
Peregrine Aw
Aberdeen Aw
Gamma Aviation
Brown Air
Skyrover
Eurodirect
Gill Aw
Citi-bus
Eastern Aw
Klm
And presume there are more (No doubt someone can add to these) but if this is just one typical example of one regional airport then what does the future hold for airports of this type throughout the UK.
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The Brussels route was operated under the guise of SABENA and the Paris route for Air France, so they can be added to the list. British Regional as British Airways operated a daily ABZ sector when AirUK first gave up the route. Cimber Air operated HUY-Esbjerg-Sonderborg also.
In reality, it is a great shame, considering KLM, SABENA, Air France and British Airways, all major european airlines, have operated from HUY in the past, there seems a rea sense of missed opportunity.
Regards
Mike
In reality, it is a great shame, considering KLM, SABENA, Air France and British Airways, all major european airlines, have operated from HUY in the past, there seems a rea sense of missed opportunity.
Regards
Mike
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Yes , depressing how many people think that they have spotted a market that no-one else has seen, or believe THEY will be the niche operator who can make a thin route work.
Operators like Eastern are the scariest of the lot, 15 plus bases variety of aircraft types, thin routes and high fares. Slightest downturn in the economy and even if the airline has it balance sheet in order, the first thing that suffers is corporate travel budgets and people stop flying on these routes.
I suspect that even if Eastern are getting the J41 s at a give away price from British Airways , trouble lurks not far from that particular house of cards. They look set to join the list above of failed operators .
Operators like Eastern are the scariest of the lot, 15 plus bases variety of aircraft types, thin routes and high fares. Slightest downturn in the economy and even if the airline has it balance sheet in order, the first thing that suffers is corporate travel budgets and people stop flying on these routes.
I suspect that even if Eastern are getting the J41 s at a give away price from British Airways , trouble lurks not far from that particular house of cards. They look set to join the list above of failed operators .
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Eastern Aw
While I understand your point of view, I think Eastern is like any other regional operator both past and present, the slowing of the economy, especially the oil and gas industries would be bad news to Eastern Aw but enough to put it out of business, i think not.
Eastern have weathered the 9/11 passenger drop off, seem to be managing the rise in oil prices and the Chairman has a vast experience of operating both an airline and being based at HUY.
Like any other evolving business, the market changes and the operator has to change or it becomes defunct. Eastern has capitalised on BA's downsizing, they have grown probably alot faster (but probably the J41's are on good lease terms, the routes were established and marketed) than the owners could ever of imagined but I'm sure and hope Eastern are here for the duration.
Eastern have weathered the 9/11 passenger drop off, seem to be managing the rise in oil prices and the Chairman has a vast experience of operating both an airline and being based at HUY.
Like any other evolving business, the market changes and the operator has to change or it becomes defunct. Eastern has capitalised on BA's downsizing, they have grown probably alot faster (but probably the J41's are on good lease terms, the routes were established and marketed) than the owners could ever of imagined but I'm sure and hope Eastern are here for the duration.
niknak
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Absolutely spot on circseam, Eastern have got HUY by the balls, they operate from there as their base cos it costs them between nothing and nowt to do so.
Politically it would be inconcieveable for the HUY management to tell Eastern to go elsewhere, equally it would cost Eastern nothing to pull the ABZ flight from HUY and move elsewhere, because they know that no one else would commit themselves to the expense that they do not endure, of taking it on.
Kenfoggo - if you take a close look at the routes Eastern operate, you will note that almost without exception they are those which can only be served by the rail network in terms of a day return journey, even then the first class return rail fare is just below the Eastern return air fare, and the air fare permits you to do a days work and return home by 7pm, which for the most part the railways can't do.
Eastern have weathered the best and worst of the UK economy over the last 5 years, I believe that they are here to stay, and will almost certainly stay at HUY, but when Finningly is up and running, they will virtually be the King of the Hill.
Politically it would be inconcieveable for the HUY management to tell Eastern to go elsewhere, equally it would cost Eastern nothing to pull the ABZ flight from HUY and move elsewhere, because they know that no one else would commit themselves to the expense that they do not endure, of taking it on.
Kenfoggo - if you take a close look at the routes Eastern operate, you will note that almost without exception they are those which can only be served by the rail network in terms of a day return journey, even then the first class return rail fare is just below the Eastern return air fare, and the air fare permits you to do a days work and return home by 7pm, which for the most part the railways can't do.
Eastern have weathered the best and worst of the UK economy over the last 5 years, I believe that they are here to stay, and will almost certainly stay at HUY, but when Finningly is up and running, they will virtually be the King of the Hill.
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NikNak, Yes I have looked at the schedules Eastern fly. I may also have used them from time to time. I also wonder what kind of passengers use these services. For example, Manchester to Stansted three times daily at 295 GBP return. Not VFR traffic. Not interlining traffic. Only leaves business travel.
I wish them well, I hope for their employees sake they DO have their business model well and truely tied down.
If you are who I suspect you are you will know very well how the managing personel operate. You have obviously moved on to different and hopefully better things since Eastern Mark One twenty odd years ago. That was half a lifetime away, but I would wager money that if you were to put your head round the door of the Marrowbone and Cleaver on any Friday lunchtime, you will see the same people holding court at the bar, different hangers on in attendance but the same or similar old stories being told, alledgedly.
Having said that they rule HUY, I say, so what? No money there and too small a catchment area. The real money comes not in operating an airline but in the deals that surround it's operation and you have to be in the game to play. I'm sure a man at a bar told me that once .
rgds
I wish them well, I hope for their employees sake they DO have their business model well and truely tied down.
If you are who I suspect you are you will know very well how the managing personel operate. You have obviously moved on to different and hopefully better things since Eastern Mark One twenty odd years ago. That was half a lifetime away, but I would wager money that if you were to put your head round the door of the Marrowbone and Cleaver on any Friday lunchtime, you will see the same people holding court at the bar, different hangers on in attendance but the same or similar old stories being told, alledgedly.
Having said that they rule HUY, I say, so what? No money there and too small a catchment area. The real money comes not in operating an airline but in the deals that surround it's operation and you have to be in the game to play. I'm sure a man at a bar told me that once .
rgds
Last edited by kenfoggo; 1st Oct 2004 at 08:56.
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Eastern's relationship with HUY is best described as symbiotic, but they are by no means the only Operators about.
The situation may indeed change with the advent of Maid Marion International, as NikNak is always keen to point out. (His Local Authority pension was preserved or transferred many years ago so lobbing brickbats from the sidelines is risk free for him)
Let none of us forget the enmity between the two major players in the Airport stakes; minor pieces can be of major value at times.
Time, as they say, will tell.
The situation may indeed change with the advent of Maid Marion International, as NikNak is always keen to point out. (His Local Authority pension was preserved or transferred many years ago so lobbing brickbats from the sidelines is risk free for him)
Let none of us forget the enmity between the two major players in the Airport stakes; minor pieces can be of major value at times.
Time, as they say, will tell.
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Eastern & HUY
Eastern, have alot of history of been based at HUY, Eastern Mk I days saw them even operate the airports refueling farm, operated from the then 2 hangers and handled for other operators. Maybe Eaqstern Mk II doesnt have that same strangle hold on the airports economy but they are the dominant player at the airport.
As for attracting new airlines and subsequent new routes, I can only assume the airports owners are activley seeking the illusive operators but I think more can be done and due to the compexity of the ownership (believe North Lincs Council still have kept their share) I just hope that HUY can be a profitable enterprise for all concerned.
Jenkins - Why invest in a/c when you already have an a/c that probably costs very little to be leased (thanks to BA), operating economies of operating such a substantial fleet, i.e. spares and pilot training must also aid Eastern in their costs. Maybe someone could enlighten us to the direct operating costs of the J41 against the types you have mentioned.
As for attracting new airlines and subsequent new routes, I can only assume the airports owners are activley seeking the illusive operators but I think more can be done and due to the compexity of the ownership (believe North Lincs Council still have kept their share) I just hope that HUY can be a profitable enterprise for all concerned.
Jenkins - Why invest in a/c when you already have an a/c that probably costs very little to be leased (thanks to BA), operating economies of operating such a substantial fleet, i.e. spares and pilot training must also aid Eastern in their costs. Maybe someone could enlighten us to the direct operating costs of the J41 against the types you have mentioned.
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Just heard Eastern won this years European Regional Airline Associations Silver Airline of the Year award.
They won it last year too and as the judging takes into account all aspects of an airlines business including strategy and financial performance this would seem to suggest they are doing things well.
They won it last year too and as the judging takes into account all aspects of an airlines business including strategy and financial performance this would seem to suggest they are doing things well.
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Punditgreen, not sure that I understand the last bit of your post about hostility between HUY players. Do you mean there is friction between Manchester Airports Group and the Council? Or between competing airlines at HUY?
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Mike - May be not for long, I keep hearing the same rumour from numerous people that Flybe may become a direct competitor on routes currently served by both Bmi regional and Eastern.
Would the current operators match Flybe's pricing or just try to catch the business end of the market.
Would the current operators match Flybe's pricing or just try to catch the business end of the market.
