Doncaster/Finningley (Merged)
niknak
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More nonsense and bollox from ILS.
If a radar service isn't available, a procedural approach control service is provided at Doncaster/Finningly, regardless of the type of radar service in the FIR any particular airline would like to receive, the landing interval may increase, but no one is going to divert because of it.
By the way, Eastern's minimum requirement is a RIS, not RAS.
If a radar service isn't available, a procedural approach control service is provided at Doncaster/Finningly, regardless of the type of radar service in the FIR any particular airline would like to receive, the landing interval may increase, but no one is going to divert because of it.
By the way, Eastern's minimum requirement is a RIS, not RAS.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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ATC Routing of Inbound & Outbound A/C
Having been a long time visitor to Pprune, I thought it about time I got registered!
I have a question re DCA:
I am keen to understand the likley flight routings for IB & OB aircraft to/from DCA. I will try to explain with my somewhat limited/general understanding of ATC, however I understand that departing ad arriving a/c are usually vectored to the nearest reporting points in the area before hand off to area ATC/National ATC or indeed approach control.
In Doncaster/Sheffields case....
1. Would a southerly arrival routing Daventry to Trent beacons be asked to fly direct DCA on leaving Trent?
3. Would an easterly arr. routing under the control of London ATC to Ottringham and Goles, be allowed direct DCA from Goles?
4. Would a westerly/Northerly arrival routing Deans Cross to Pole Hill/Upton be allowed a Direct to 8 mile final from POL or Upton?
If not, what would be classed as a standard routing? (I understand SID's and STAR's are not yet in place)
and would any of the above become routine/business as usual?
Thanks in advance!
I have a question re DCA:
I am keen to understand the likley flight routings for IB & OB aircraft to/from DCA. I will try to explain with my somewhat limited/general understanding of ATC, however I understand that departing ad arriving a/c are usually vectored to the nearest reporting points in the area before hand off to area ATC/National ATC or indeed approach control.
In Doncaster/Sheffields case....
1. Would a southerly arrival routing Daventry to Trent beacons be asked to fly direct DCA on leaving Trent?
3. Would an easterly arr. routing under the control of London ATC to Ottringham and Goles, be allowed direct DCA from Goles?
4. Would a westerly/Northerly arrival routing Deans Cross to Pole Hill/Upton be allowed a Direct to 8 mile final from POL or Upton?
If not, what would be classed as a standard routing? (I understand SID's and STAR's are not yet in place)
and would any of the above become routine/business as usual?
Thanks in advance!
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Bigflesh,
I wish yo point out to you, that Doncaster Sheffield Airport ( FINNINGLEY ) is DSA not DCA.
However apart from the small error you have made, you seem to know what you are talking about, looking forward to constructive issues from you.
I wish yo point out to you, that Doncaster Sheffield Airport ( FINNINGLEY ) is DSA not DCA.
However apart from the small error you have made, you seem to know what you are talking about, looking forward to constructive issues from you.
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In Doncaster/Sheffields case....
1. Would a southerly arrival routing Daventry to Trent beacons be asked to fly direct DCA on leaving Trent?
Does this mean more for the nimbys round here to start complaining about from 28th April? After all, the planes will be blue and marked Thomsonfly all over them? Leicestershire CC are sticking their oar in on the CVT inquiry (despite just one complaint going to the inspectorate from within their boundaries). Will this have more people in these areas mistaking DSA traffic for CVT, just like they already mistake much of BHX traffic as going into CVT. I know the person who bought our old house in Leamington seems to think Emirates fly into CVT - I wish ;-)
BTW, how much shareholding in NEMA do LCC have?
And yes, DCA = Washington Reagan National, I think they'd have difficulty sending anything too far east due to local regs restricting destinations served!
1. Would a southerly arrival routing Daventry to Trent beacons be asked to fly direct DCA on leaving Trent?
Does this mean more for the nimbys round here to start complaining about from 28th April? After all, the planes will be blue and marked Thomsonfly all over them? Leicestershire CC are sticking their oar in on the CVT inquiry (despite just one complaint going to the inspectorate from within their boundaries). Will this have more people in these areas mistaking DSA traffic for CVT, just like they already mistake much of BHX traffic as going into CVT. I know the person who bought our old house in Leamington seems to think Emirates fly into CVT - I wish ;-)
BTW, how much shareholding in NEMA do LCC have?
And yes, DCA = Washington Reagan National, I think they'd have difficulty sending anything too far east due to local regs restricting destinations served!
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LCC have no stake in NEMA-we are a wholly owned subsidary of MAG group, though quite rightly I believe LCC should have a say in any inquiry over cov traffic-many of the complaints aimed at NEMA from south of leicester can be placed at the door of Cov inbounds-now being vectored over parts of SW leics that never had that level of traffic before
Join Date: Mar 2005
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MAN,LPL and LBA inbounds from AMS,etc fly over Doncaster routing via OTBED and GOLES,presumably DSA traffic from this direction will route similarly.Traffic from Spain etc into HUY comes in from the west,i believe from STOCK instead of from TNT,again will DSA traffic come in this way as a direct from TNT takes them outside controlled airspace does it not.Also will use be made of the GAMSTON VOR it's only just to the south.Will there be SIDs and STARs as noise abatement will be a big issue around the airport.Finally if the radar controller is situated at LPL,will there
be a transmitter at DSA to relay his instructions,ie will i be able to pick him up on my scanner ? We will of course get the answers to these questions and more when the flights actually start.
be a transmitter at DSA to relay his instructions,ie will i be able to pick him up on my scanner ? We will of course get the answers to these questions and more when the flights actually start.
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DonnyR,
Can you elaborate? I was wanting to book down to AGP on the first day.
AP,
"LCC have no stake in NEMA-we are a wholly owned subsidary of MAG group"
So no councils have any stake in NEMA now, except those in & around MAN which own MAG?
"though quite rightly I believe LCC should have a say in any inquiry"
Having a say is fine, if there are significant volumes of complaints from people living close by. So far, just one household has written in to the CVT IPF inquiry from Leicestershire. This is hardly a mandate to spend £000s of LCC tax payers' money on legal fees to represent this person.
Can you elaborate? I was wanting to book down to AGP on the first day.
AP,
"LCC have no stake in NEMA-we are a wholly owned subsidary of MAG group"
So no councils have any stake in NEMA now, except those in & around MAN which own MAG?
"though quite rightly I believe LCC should have a say in any inquiry"
Having a say is fine, if there are significant volumes of complaints from people living close by. So far, just one household has written in to the CVT IPF inquiry from Leicestershire. This is hardly a mandate to spend £000s of LCC tax payers' money on legal fees to represent this person.
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Inbound / Outbound routings are not yet finalised, they will be published shortly.
DSA is situated in Class G airspace with only an ATZ so all inbounds will have to leave CAS to get there. Also, no CAS = no SID's. There will be standard Airways Joining Agreements with Manchester ACC.
DONNYRADAR....
Ha ha ha, of course there will be - never fear your ears will hear.........
DSA is situated in Class G airspace with only an ATZ so all inbounds will have to leave CAS to get there. Also, no CAS = no SID's. There will be standard Airways Joining Agreements with Manchester ACC.
DONNYRADAR....
Finally if the radar controller is situated at LPL,will there
be a transmitter at DSA to relay his instructions,ie will i be able to pick him up on my scanner
be a transmitter at DSA to relay his instructions,ie will i be able to pick him up on my scanner
Ha ha ha, of course there will be - never fear your ears will hear.........
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Robin Hood flight
My memory may be failing me (I seem to get more senior moments these days!) was there not supposed to have been an inaugural flight 16 March 2005? Did I miss it?
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CVT Inquiry
One of the fundamentals that is lost in this argument is that...
Thomsonfly (Oooops sorry the owners of Coventry) broke planning. They did not have planning permission to operate for Commercial Fare Paying Passengers...but what the heck it's only planning law, so what!!!
Whether people want to use the airport or not is irrelevant, Planning Law should be adhered to or do we support the idea of our neighbour building something in their garden that annoys the hell out of us and devalues our property, but what the heck the neighbour is happy!!!
GRUNT
Thomsonfly (Oooops sorry the owners of Coventry) broke planning. They did not have planning permission to operate for Commercial Fare Paying Passengers...but what the heck it's only planning law, so what!!!
Whether people want to use the airport or not is irrelevant, Planning Law should be adhered to or do we support the idea of our neighbour building something in their garden that annoys the hell out of us and devalues our property, but what the heck the neighbour is happy!!!
GRUNT
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7006 fan - the 16th of March date was listed as the date the airport was commercially open/available from. Since the launch customer, Thomsonfly said they preferred the 28th of April to launch their flying programme that then became the official commercial opening date. I suspect the airport were relieved to have a few extra weeks as its enabled them to start with proving flights rather than commercial ones.
They have waited for several years through planning and the public inquiry so i suspect a few weeks is no big deal to them.
They have waited for several years through planning and the public inquiry so i suspect a few weeks is no big deal to them.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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The very first commercial flight to depart from DSA will be a Thomsonfly flight to PMI. It will depart at 0915 on Thursday 28 April 2005.
The very first commercial arrival will be that of Ryanair, inbound from DUB at around 1255.
Does anyone plan on going up to DSA on the morning of 28th April? It would be interesting to see how many non passengers turn up.
The very first charter flights depart on Sunday 01 May 2005, this will be with Thomson and to Palma at 0715.
The very first commercial arrival will be that of Ryanair, inbound from DUB at around 1255.
Does anyone plan on going up to DSA on the morning of 28th April? It would be interesting to see how many non passengers turn up.
The very first charter flights depart on Sunday 01 May 2005, this will be with Thomson and to Palma at 0715.
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doncaster finningley etc
7006,The admitted fiasco at Coventry,was,apparently due to a misunderstanding off planning law. A TEMPORARY terminal was constructed to allow flying at a LICENSED airport,whilst they awaited full planning for a permanent terminal. They then got into difficulty with a council which supported Birmingham Airport,and did not want Coventry to take business away. This is how I read the facts. I may be wrong,but our antiquated planning laws certainly need sorting out.
A previous correspondent,on the date of DSA opening is quite right. Original date for fare paying passengers was 16th.March,but it was a commercial decision by Thomsonfly to start from 28th.April. The campaign for the airport was started in Oct,1996 by mtself and others,who see no problem in waiting an extra six weeks. Incidentally,freight will be brought in before that date.
Further,I am pretty well informed of progress at the airport,and have heard nothing of any possible diversions from DSA.
A previous correspondent,on the date of DSA opening is quite right. Original date for fare paying passengers was 16th.March,but it was a commercial decision by Thomsonfly to start from 28th.April. The campaign for the airport was started in Oct,1996 by mtself and others,who see no problem in waiting an extra six weeks. Incidentally,freight will be brought in before that date.
Further,I am pretty well informed of progress at the airport,and have heard nothing of any possible diversions from DSA.
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Absolutely right Terry, DSA WILL open on time, and there are no diversions or cancellations planned.
Enough already about delayed opening... start getting excited with just over 5 weeks to go!!
Enough already about delayed opening... start getting excited with just over 5 weeks to go!!
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Terry,
"antiquated planning laws"?!?!
Given there was no national planning law until the 'Town and Country Planning Act 1947', I would not call it antiquated (it is younger than my brother and he is certainly no antique!!!), especially as the last major revision was 1990, plus an awsome number of Regulations and Orders have been issued following successful cases in the Courts.
At local and regional level the Local and Regional Plans tend to have more say in what and does not go on in the area.
Of course these RPG's and LPG's are now becoming integrated into RSS (Regional Spacial Strategy) on-going at present. RPG 12 was completed last year (Transport) but now has to be incorporated into RSS which then creates the framework for planning over the next 10/15 years. This is all new stuff and is where the decisions will be made as to what can and cannot happen regionally/locally. If it is against RSS, then it would require National Government to over-rule if it was considered in the National Interest.
Ergo CVT and DSA are both Regional issues, neither will be National Hub sites like LHR and to a lesser extent LGW, BHX and MAN. I would suggest an overhaul of the T&CPA 1990 is not necessary but provision within RSS is key. (that having been said DSA was subject to a Public Enquiry, which was a bit cute as it meant it was not considered as part of the Air Transport White Paper, it would have been interesting if it had have been, don't think CVT is subject to a PE as there is a breach of planning case currently being progressed, but there is no reason why a PE could not take place afterwards. It is certainly a 'material change of use' likely to cause considerable disruption to the local and wider community)
Just as an aside 'temporary' is defined in T&CPA, from memory it is something like:
"...a structure of a temporary nature... not being more than 3m in height...permitted to remain for up to 28 days...and capable of being dismantled/removed within x" Haven't go the Act in front of me so might be slightly awry on the numbers. Have not read it for 7 years! (No need)
Sorry about that, bit of a dry subject to say the least.
Cheers
"antiquated planning laws"?!?!
Given there was no national planning law until the 'Town and Country Planning Act 1947', I would not call it antiquated (it is younger than my brother and he is certainly no antique!!!), especially as the last major revision was 1990, plus an awsome number of Regulations and Orders have been issued following successful cases in the Courts.
At local and regional level the Local and Regional Plans tend to have more say in what and does not go on in the area.
Of course these RPG's and LPG's are now becoming integrated into RSS (Regional Spacial Strategy) on-going at present. RPG 12 was completed last year (Transport) but now has to be incorporated into RSS which then creates the framework for planning over the next 10/15 years. This is all new stuff and is where the decisions will be made as to what can and cannot happen regionally/locally. If it is against RSS, then it would require National Government to over-rule if it was considered in the National Interest.
Ergo CVT and DSA are both Regional issues, neither will be National Hub sites like LHR and to a lesser extent LGW, BHX and MAN. I would suggest an overhaul of the T&CPA 1990 is not necessary but provision within RSS is key. (that having been said DSA was subject to a Public Enquiry, which was a bit cute as it meant it was not considered as part of the Air Transport White Paper, it would have been interesting if it had have been, don't think CVT is subject to a PE as there is a breach of planning case currently being progressed, but there is no reason why a PE could not take place afterwards. It is certainly a 'material change of use' likely to cause considerable disruption to the local and wider community)
Just as an aside 'temporary' is defined in T&CPA, from memory it is something like:
"...a structure of a temporary nature... not being more than 3m in height...permitted to remain for up to 28 days...and capable of being dismantled/removed within x" Haven't go the Act in front of me so might be slightly awry on the numbers. Have not read it for 7 years! (No need)
Sorry about that, bit of a dry subject to say the least.
Cheers
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jetpipe john
Is it or is it not DSA ? Maybe that's what Peel would like, but I am not sure they can just pick any three letter code of their liking. The IATA database has the airport listed as DCS = Doncaster / Finningley, and it would appear that this has always been the civilian (IATA) code for this airport.
I believe DSA when I see it in the IATA database.
CG
Is it or is it not DSA ? Maybe that's what Peel would like, but I am not sure they can just pick any three letter code of their liking. The IATA database has the airport listed as DCS = Doncaster / Finningley, and it would appear that this has always been the civilian (IATA) code for this airport.
I believe DSA when I see it in the IATA database.
CG