LEEDS
I've heard that the much talked-about apron extension is to happen some time in 2005 and will basically signal the end of runway 09/27. Don't know how many additional stands will be created but I would cautiously estimate about six. I expect there will be a lot more pax buses to and from the terminal airside when these stand are in full use. Wonder who will get parked on them ? Jet2....No, BMI...No, MyTravel...Who ? Dunno, just idle speculation but somehow I can't see them being the most popular parking spots from the point of view of the airlines.
Apparently, improvements to the runway are also afoot. I don't think physically more concrete is on the cards just yet but rather moving the thresholds closer to the actual runway ends to increase the LDAs and make the CAT III ILS more user-friendly.
Apparently, improvements to the runway are also afoot. I don't think physically more concrete is on the cards just yet but rather moving the thresholds closer to the actual runway ends to increase the LDAs and make the CAT III ILS more user-friendly.
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Mooncrest, forgive me but the runway work you mention would require substantial work. In order to move the 32 threshold back, which incidentaly is a CAA enforced displacement, would require the establishment of a RESA.
Whilst a RESA does not have to be concrete it would involve the building up of land at the start of 32 where once an unfortunate L1011 sat. Basically you would need what is currently at the start of 14 a soft undershoot/overrun area.
It would be better if going this far to lay some concrete as it could then be used as a starter run for 32 departures but again there would still need to be a soft overrun for 14 landings. I'm not sure if there is room for this. The lighting and CAT3 would be out of action during this work which would mean timing would be important.
Ultimately this work could allow for a 2000m LDA on 32 and IF some concrete were laid almost the same on 14 whose threshold can't be moved back due to the chevin. As an added bonus 14 departures could have a TORA or around 2500m and a TODA of 3500m or so if concrete were laid.
As for the apron extension the sooner the better it will be needed next summer as all stands will be full on current plans!
Whilst a RESA does not have to be concrete it would involve the building up of land at the start of 32 where once an unfortunate L1011 sat. Basically you would need what is currently at the start of 14 a soft undershoot/overrun area.
It would be better if going this far to lay some concrete as it could then be used as a starter run for 32 departures but again there would still need to be a soft overrun for 14 landings. I'm not sure if there is room for this. The lighting and CAT3 would be out of action during this work which would mean timing would be important.
Ultimately this work could allow for a 2000m LDA on 32 and IF some concrete were laid almost the same on 14 whose threshold can't be moved back due to the chevin. As an added bonus 14 departures could have a TORA or around 2500m and a TODA of 3500m or so if concrete were laid.
As for the apron extension the sooner the better it will be needed next summer as all stands will be full on current plans!
It now looks like the "based" unit from AEU has more flights between Friday morning and Tuesday late evening arrival back into LBA - IBZ/MAH on Friday - room for an overnight service, ALC and LPA on Saturdays (a gap for something exists Saturday early am dept ex LBA), AGP Sun (with another gap), REU on Monday - with a W into somewhere else and PMI on a Tuesday with a W into somewhere.
Hooded, thanks for the info and consider yourself forgiven ! I s'pose these are all problems associated with having an airport on a hilltop with the unavoidable sloping ground on all sides. I wonder if it is feasible to physically raise the ground level around the runway and apron with landfill to try to alleviate these difficulties. I've seen vast amounts of rock and earth being shifted about in Iceland in order to dig a tunnel. I expect the overriding factor would be cost, not to mention whether the neighbouring land could be purchased by the airport operators.
Flybe.com, I know the runway takes quite a pounding these days but surely it's not all down to Jet2. Granted this company contributes a substantial amount of movements but BMI make themselves known also. Mind, the runway was laid some forty years ago (the extension twenty years) and there must be a limit to the number of times it can be recut and regrooved. Plus the snow sweeping and ploughing takes its toll as well. It will have to be fully resurfaced one day but when
LGWAlan. Nice to have Astraeus along for a full season instead of the odd charter and glad to see they're a bit busier than had been known earlier. Do you know what aircraft they'll be using ?
Flybe.com, I know the runway takes quite a pounding these days but surely it's not all down to Jet2. Granted this company contributes a substantial amount of movements but BMI make themselves known also. Mind, the runway was laid some forty years ago (the extension twenty years) and there must be a limit to the number of times it can be recut and regrooved. Plus the snow sweeping and ploughing takes its toll as well. It will have to be fully resurfaced one day but when
LGWAlan. Nice to have Astraeus along for a full season instead of the odd charter and glad to see they're a bit busier than had been known earlier. Do you know what aircraft they'll be using ?
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I heard BAL will be doing their usual 767 for may-june in S05. If you look at this fact and what they have been doing for the past couple of years it tells a story in its-self:
Charter firms like BAL/TUI CAN fill programmes from LBA with no problem otherwise a 767 would not be feasible. They are just using the airport to the best of their advantages. They do not particularly want to use the airport because come high season they pull the 767 for MAN or LGW etc, better loads from major bases etc..
MYT seem to have come up with sub-chartering policy, yes fair enough to them but I for one are not in favour and I know people prefer to fly with brands - i mean who the hell(apart from us enthusiasts) ever heard of LTE, or Volare ?? The customer lives in a name-tag world and thats what they want.
Jet2 seem to do a god job and BMI too, I have no problem where they are concerned.
But as for leeds exepnasion, I say the charter companies have no want to use LBA and will not. It is becoming more likely that charter traffic will fade. I know the population of the leeds area but this WILL NOT change the minds of the charter companies. Beleive me FC and TC will not even entertain us.
I am an avid fan of lba but I just wanted to make my thoughts known.
Cheers
Charter firms like BAL/TUI CAN fill programmes from LBA with no problem otherwise a 767 would not be feasible. They are just using the airport to the best of their advantages. They do not particularly want to use the airport because come high season they pull the 767 for MAN or LGW etc, better loads from major bases etc..
MYT seem to have come up with sub-chartering policy, yes fair enough to them but I for one are not in favour and I know people prefer to fly with brands - i mean who the hell(apart from us enthusiasts) ever heard of LTE, or Volare ?? The customer lives in a name-tag world and thats what they want.
Jet2 seem to do a god job and BMI too, I have no problem where they are concerned.
But as for leeds exepnasion, I say the charter companies have no want to use LBA and will not. It is becoming more likely that charter traffic will fade. I know the population of the leeds area but this WILL NOT change the minds of the charter companies. Beleive me FC and TC will not even entertain us.
I am an avid fan of lba but I just wanted to make my thoughts known.
Cheers
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LBA charters
Airlines which do not react to growth like that at LBA will see their own forthcoming downfalls. Thomsons fail miserably to have any sort of decent program from LBA. Loco Jet2.com moves in and does a great job where Thomsons fail. The same will continue, LBAs growth will continue. The new boys will exploit the market and succeed at the expence of the main charter airlines failings.
It is not the length of the runway that makes people choose to fly from a particular airport. It is its local geographic location to two major populations of Leeds and Bradford. period
It is not the length of the runway that makes people choose to fly from a particular airport. It is its local geographic location to two major populations of Leeds and Bradford. period
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You are right about the runway length matter leodis, people are not interested in it, they are interested in flying from their local area (and so am I). The runway length will not interest any charter companies either - it is plainly the airport and its location or probably some other political reason as to why they do not want to use it to full potential.
The airport desperately needs to generate growth and has suceeded in part through Jet2 coming on board. What amazes me is other 'local' airports like bristol, newcastle east midlands seems to do a darn sight better than us on the charter side of things.
Who or what is holding LBA back ? There are now 22 pages of reasons and reasoning regarding this subject, probably hundreds of letters to MP's, to the airport authorities and travel agent requests but it all falls on deaf ears.
We can all come on here and moan and groan about it but isnt it time we got to the root cause ??
The airport desperately needs to generate growth and has suceeded in part through Jet2 coming on board. What amazes me is other 'local' airports like bristol, newcastle east midlands seems to do a darn sight better than us on the charter side of things.
Who or what is holding LBA back ? There are now 22 pages of reasons and reasoning regarding this subject, probably hundreds of letters to MP's, to the airport authorities and travel agent requests but it all falls on deaf ears.
We can all come on here and moan and groan about it but isnt it time we got to the root cause ??
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So is Luton, Stansted and Heathrow not near to gatwick ?
So is Newcastle not near to glasgow ?
So is Manchester not near to Birmingham ?
I know what you are saying graham, but I think this type of argument is wearing a bit thin.
If you were an american or aussie you would think a 500 mile drive to an airport was local.
So is Newcastle not near to glasgow ?
So is Manchester not near to Birmingham ?
I know what you are saying graham, but I think this type of argument is wearing a bit thin.
If you were an american or aussie you would think a 500 mile drive to an airport was local.
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AEU Busy on Monday's!
The AEU based 733 next summer is kept very busy on Monday's. Leaves LBA at 0530 and returns at 2355 after operating LBA-REU-MME-REU-BFS-REU-LBA! Still can't find any flights for her on Wed and Thu though...anyone know any different?
Happy New Year too you all aswell!
Happy New Year too you all aswell!
I flew from LBA top CHG a couple of weeks ago. Living in East Yorkshire, the place is a nightmare to get to, with the last few miles on small town/village type roads. (don't mention the 13 speed camera's in the last 2-3 miles)
In the time it takes me to drive from the M62 to the airport, I can nearly be at Manchester. Infact if I take the M18/M1, I can nearly be at East Midlands in the time it takes me to do the last 10 miles upto LBA.
The problem with LBA always has been, and always will be the transport links. Unless that is fixed, then the place will never grow.
And then the ATZ goes live next week at Finningley, but that's another story........
In the time it takes me to drive from the M62 to the airport, I can nearly be at Manchester. Infact if I take the M18/M1, I can nearly be at East Midlands in the time it takes me to do the last 10 miles upto LBA.
The problem with LBA always has been, and always will be the transport links. Unless that is fixed, then the place will never grow.
And then the ATZ goes live next week at Finningley, but that's another story........
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MikeeB,
I agree entirely with your comments; road links to LBA are hopeless. It must rank as one of the worst major airports in the UK for road access. Who had the bright idea of siting it at Yeadon? Must be about as far as possible from the motorway network which of course runs around the South/East of Leeds.
I agree entirely with your comments; road links to LBA are hopeless. It must rank as one of the worst major airports in the UK for road access. Who had the bright idea of siting it at Yeadon? Must be about as far as possible from the motorway network which of course runs around the South/East of Leeds.
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Obviously surface links to LBA are less than ideal...however to say that unless these are resolved the place will never grow seems to defy the last 2 years of spectacular growth. More than 2.6 Million passengers used LBA during 2004 and with the increases from LS, WOW & BEE this is set to continue. However work to improve the local road network is needed.
As has been said before, if you live south or east of Leeds then Yeadon isn't very convenient, however live to the north or just west (in the vicinity of Baildon & Shipley for example) then it isn't too bad. The very fact that the airport doesn't rely on a sole Motorway access can be a bonus...you've only got to look at the delights that the M1 & M62 have got to offer to realise this. Additionally the vast number of backroads that feed the airport means that the locals (and they are the bulk of pax flying) can often find a secondary route if their first is blocked.
MikeeB's comments wrt to LBA access versus MAN / EMA and the arrival of DSA on the scene are of interest.
My take is that if you live south or east of LBA then DSA is probably going to be of use, however you are likely to have been a MAN or EMA passenger anyway becuase of the motorway links. Live in the immediate area of LBA and if you cannot fly from Yeadon you are not likely to fly from DSA either since Manchester is likely to be just as easy to get to with its better range of flights.
As has been said before, if you live south or east of Leeds then Yeadon isn't very convenient, however live to the north or just west (in the vicinity of Baildon & Shipley for example) then it isn't too bad. The very fact that the airport doesn't rely on a sole Motorway access can be a bonus...you've only got to look at the delights that the M1 & M62 have got to offer to realise this. Additionally the vast number of backroads that feed the airport means that the locals (and they are the bulk of pax flying) can often find a secondary route if their first is blocked.
MikeeB's comments wrt to LBA access versus MAN / EMA and the arrival of DSA on the scene are of interest.
My take is that if you live south or east of LBA then DSA is probably going to be of use, however you are likely to have been a MAN or EMA passenger anyway becuase of the motorway links. Live in the immediate area of LBA and if you cannot fly from Yeadon you are not likely to fly from DSA either since Manchester is likely to be just as easy to get to with its better range of flights.
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Road and transport links
Firstly.....
DC10FAN.....your certainly no LBA supporter, why you bother going on this thread beats me, no disrespect intended, so please don't take this the wrong way.
MikeeB.........your comments have been mentioned before, valid though they are, like 14 Loop said, Leeds Bradford International Airport has still handled upwards of 2.6 million passengers, certainly nothing to be sniffed at. Other airports around the UK that have poor road links also do well, such as Bristol. The long term strategy of the airport authority and the councils of Leeds and Bradford include improving the roads to the airport. A public consultation has already started with the Leeds Highways Department and copies are available on the LCC website, so please take a look and post back here what you think.
Other talked about issues such as hill FOG, runway length and apron stands are all currently under consideration and through careful planning can all be resolved. The fact remains, if the airport were to be sold, with the prospect of handling 3 million passengers in 2005, it would be snapped up rather quickly I would expect!
DC10FAN.....your certainly no LBA supporter, why you bother going on this thread beats me, no disrespect intended, so please don't take this the wrong way.
MikeeB.........your comments have been mentioned before, valid though they are, like 14 Loop said, Leeds Bradford International Airport has still handled upwards of 2.6 million passengers, certainly nothing to be sniffed at. Other airports around the UK that have poor road links also do well, such as Bristol. The long term strategy of the airport authority and the councils of Leeds and Bradford include improving the roads to the airport. A public consultation has already started with the Leeds Highways Department and copies are available on the LCC website, so please take a look and post back here what you think.
Other talked about issues such as hill FOG, runway length and apron stands are all currently under consideration and through careful planning can all be resolved. The fact remains, if the airport were to be sold, with the prospect of handling 3 million passengers in 2005, it would be snapped up rather quickly I would expect!
Last edited by Leodis; 2nd Jan 2005 at 16:25.
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Are people missing the point here?
I usually fly just once a year (summer vacation) and living just 15 mins drive from LBA, it is obviously the number 1 choice for myself and family for our journey to Alicante.
However, in this competitive market, I'm always going to take the cheapest option - in the last 3 years we flew from MAN, EMA, and finally last year LBA (we left it very late and only paid around £50 extra on a total party fare of well over £1000). We've booked already for next year and Doncaster won the day, with a saving of nearly £200 compared to the cheapest flights available from Leeds.
Pax are prepared to travel an hour or so each way to their departure airport. As long as Leeds has a restricted choice compared to say, Manchester, it will surely suffer.
I usually fly just once a year (summer vacation) and living just 15 mins drive from LBA, it is obviously the number 1 choice for myself and family for our journey to Alicante.
However, in this competitive market, I'm always going to take the cheapest option - in the last 3 years we flew from MAN, EMA, and finally last year LBA (we left it very late and only paid around £50 extra on a total party fare of well over £1000). We've booked already for next year and Doncaster won the day, with a saving of nearly £200 compared to the cheapest flights available from Leeds.
Pax are prepared to travel an hour or so each way to their departure airport. As long as Leeds has a restricted choice compared to say, Manchester, it will surely suffer.
Not Manchester
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DC10FAN.....your certainly no LBA fan
Either the approach roads are as DC10FAN describes them or they are not. What does being a "fan" have to do with anything?
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timmcat
Airlines sell seat on aircraft at a high price when there is a large demand. Seats are only sold cheap when there is little demand!!
LBA must be seen as DSAs biggest threat given the amount of threadbashing of LBA by DSA thread posters.
DSA will be a lovely little airport (with a long runway) when it opens and it will serve Sheffield and the greater part of South Yorkshire very well, but there are THREE airports within our region serving 5 million people and I for one wish them all success for 2005 and the coming years ahead.
Nearly every major city in Europe has a major airport. Sheffield has never had a viable airport untill now. Leeds has only just started to take off over the last few years. The problems largely down to availability of night time flying, not its road network. Hull has quite a small population so prospects there have never been that good, but there is still scope for more flights.
The people of Yorkshire as a whole have a real prospect of being able to fly from our THREE local airports with all the latest developments in Yorkshire. Lets not undermine the potential of either one of our local airports.
Most airports have various different problems:-
Manchester - from a passenger prospective is too big and difficult to navigate. The mostly off site car parking is difficult to find. Motorways leading to it are expected to reach capacity within the next 15 - 20 years or so.
Leeds - difficult to get to, hill fog, runway not into wind, runway not long enough
DSA - low level fog, runway not into wind, not close enough to the centre of Sheffield to establish good european business flights.
Humberside - to far from the main population areas.
So basically it is in our interests to support any development at any of our regions airports.
LBA must be seen as DSAs biggest threat given the amount of threadbashing of LBA by DSA thread posters.
DSA will be a lovely little airport (with a long runway) when it opens and it will serve Sheffield and the greater part of South Yorkshire very well, but there are THREE airports within our region serving 5 million people and I for one wish them all success for 2005 and the coming years ahead.
Nearly every major city in Europe has a major airport. Sheffield has never had a viable airport untill now. Leeds has only just started to take off over the last few years. The problems largely down to availability of night time flying, not its road network. Hull has quite a small population so prospects there have never been that good, but there is still scope for more flights.
The people of Yorkshire as a whole have a real prospect of being able to fly from our THREE local airports with all the latest developments in Yorkshire. Lets not undermine the potential of either one of our local airports.
Most airports have various different problems:-
Manchester - from a passenger prospective is too big and difficult to navigate. The mostly off site car parking is difficult to find. Motorways leading to it are expected to reach capacity within the next 15 - 20 years or so.
Leeds - difficult to get to, hill fog, runway not into wind, runway not long enough
DSA - low level fog, runway not into wind, not close enough to the centre of Sheffield to establish good european business flights.
Humberside - to far from the main population areas.
So basically it is in our interests to support any development at any of our regions airports.
Last edited by Leodis; 2nd Jan 2005 at 16:27.