Ryanair/Easyjet expansion Ltn - Merged.
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It may look like the knives are being sharpened, but the only route FR and EZY share out of LTN is the Barcelona route (albeit EZY serves El Prat, FR Reus and Girona).
It's already a shambles with stands at the moment in LTN, look at the amount of BizzJets currently fly out of here.
And with the taxiways as they are, you need the a/c landing at least on a 6NM final to let another 737 onto the runway backtrack and take-off. It's far from ideal.
TBI should get their fingers out of their arses and do something, but it seems government is not playing ball either.
MOL isn't thick, a lot of what this guy does or seems to do, seems really far fetched. He didn't make money out of the blue, this guy knows what he's doing. This winter will see a lot of things happening in aviation, and it ain't pretty.
It's already a shambles with stands at the moment in LTN, look at the amount of BizzJets currently fly out of here.
And with the taxiways as they are, you need the a/c landing at least on a 6NM final to let another 737 onto the runway backtrack and take-off. It's far from ideal.
TBI should get their fingers out of their arses and do something, but it seems government is not playing ball either.
MOL isn't thick, a lot of what this guy does or seems to do, seems really far fetched. He didn't make money out of the blue, this guy knows what he's doing. This winter will see a lot of things happening in aviation, and it ain't pretty.
They used the earth that was dug out from under the new terminal and the east apron to build up the land to the north of the runway for the new taxiway. The bottom line is that they run out of soil and to import it was too expensive.
The lack of a full length taxiway isn’t having that much impact as the runway has handled over 30 movements an hour when required.
The lack of a full length taxiway isn’t having that much impact as the runway has handled over 30 movements an hour when required.
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Quote: "It's already a shambles with stands at the moment in LTN, look at the amount of BizzJets currently fly out of here.
And with the taxiways as they are, you need the a/c landing at least on a 6NM final to let another 737 onto the runway backtrack and take-off. It's far from ideal."
Shaka Zulu may be right about the six mile spacing necessary to accommodate departures at Luton, but until the departure routes out of Luton are afforded the same ATC handling and priority as routes out of Gatwick, Heathrow and (most of) Stansted, a one-and-half minute movement rate afforded by a full-length parallel taxiway is unachievable.
This requires a fundamental re-design of the airspace and route structure - something that the 'experts' at the CAA couldn't probably manage in less than five years. After all, it would take the neddies twelve months just to convene a meeting to discuss the issue.
NATS and its controllers do the best they can with airspace that's a total can of worms, long overdue for revision.
The six mile spacing at Luton compares very favourably with the spacing at Gatwick (also a single runway operation) and the fact that it works most times is a credit to the aircraft crews and to the NATS controllers at Luton and at West Drayton.
Stand allocation at Luton isn't a 'shambles' - it's simply a case of running at capacity because of various increases in business. Heathrow on a far larger and grander scale is just the same - look at how many times it has a 'Full House' situation because they've run out of stands for arrivals.
If the business is there, you can bet that TBI will pour concrete and if the vultures in Luton Council see all these extra pound notes winging their way, rest assured there won't be any formal opposition to another few parking spots, especially if Ryanair's expansion creates some additional employment in that run down toilet town...
And with the taxiways as they are, you need the a/c landing at least on a 6NM final to let another 737 onto the runway backtrack and take-off. It's far from ideal."
Shaka Zulu may be right about the six mile spacing necessary to accommodate departures at Luton, but until the departure routes out of Luton are afforded the same ATC handling and priority as routes out of Gatwick, Heathrow and (most of) Stansted, a one-and-half minute movement rate afforded by a full-length parallel taxiway is unachievable.
This requires a fundamental re-design of the airspace and route structure - something that the 'experts' at the CAA couldn't probably manage in less than five years. After all, it would take the neddies twelve months just to convene a meeting to discuss the issue.
NATS and its controllers do the best they can with airspace that's a total can of worms, long overdue for revision.
The six mile spacing at Luton compares very favourably with the spacing at Gatwick (also a single runway operation) and the fact that it works most times is a credit to the aircraft crews and to the NATS controllers at Luton and at West Drayton.
Stand allocation at Luton isn't a 'shambles' - it's simply a case of running at capacity because of various increases in business. Heathrow on a far larger and grander scale is just the same - look at how many times it has a 'Full House' situation because they've run out of stands for arrivals.
If the business is there, you can bet that TBI will pour concrete and if the vultures in Luton Council see all these extra pound notes winging their way, rest assured there won't be any formal opposition to another few parking spots, especially if Ryanair's expansion creates some additional employment in that run down toilet town...
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I agree with the other problems LTN airport have with SID/STARS accross the London TMA, point taken.
But if there is no will to move forward, maybe even with some bold/brash forward thinking I can't see why LTN should not be able to get more flights in and out of here especially during peak times.
It's just so apparent that the initial plans for the terminal were cancelled. Upstairs Departures to Jetways, Downstairs Arrivals.
Maybe LTN has grown enough now and maybe via optimizing capacity it will be able to handle more pax but sometimes I hope somebody else than BAA does something a little bit earlier than normal. So capacity is there when you need it. Frustrating.
See how MOL fairs then ey
But if there is no will to move forward, maybe even with some bold/brash forward thinking I can't see why LTN should not be able to get more flights in and out of here especially during peak times.
It's just so apparent that the initial plans for the terminal were cancelled. Upstairs Departures to Jetways, Downstairs Arrivals.
Maybe LTN has grown enough now and maybe via optimizing capacity it will be able to handle more pax but sometimes I hope somebody else than BAA does something a little bit earlier than normal. So capacity is there when you need it. Frustrating.
See how MOL fairs then ey
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'Watch this space. The wimnter of 2004/5 will provide bankrupticies among the low cost airlines. Ryanair is starting to look very vulnerable.'
Colgate...you are so funny, it borders on hilarious, have you any idea of the size of FR's reserves. Ryanair have a history of moving flights when full charges apply. Airports should know that by now! They are so greedy to take in the business in the first instance, they never look down the road, they once the routes are successful they gamble on the airline not moving. I am not a fan of FR, but in this case I say hats off. I would caution LTN to structure a water tight long-term deal with no ambiguity. BAA deserve a kck on the teeth, they expect business to fall in front of them, treat it like dirt, and wonder then why they complain.
Colgate...you are so funny, it borders on hilarious, have you any idea of the size of FR's reserves. Ryanair have a history of moving flights when full charges apply. Airports should know that by now! They are so greedy to take in the business in the first instance, they never look down the road, they once the routes are successful they gamble on the airline not moving. I am not a fan of FR, but in this case I say hats off. I would caution LTN to structure a water tight long-term deal with no ambiguity. BAA deserve a kck on the teeth, they expect business to fall in front of them, treat it like dirt, and wonder then why they complain.
By the end of January there will be 32 Ryanair movements a day into and out of Luton. Ryanair aircraft have an average load factor of around 80%, which means around 150 passengers per flight, 4800 passengers per day or 1,747,200 per year. As Ryanair has around 600,000 passengers using Luton at the moment the 1,000,000 extra passengers is meant to equal 1000 jobs which is based on the work done by the Government's consultants
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It's a shame FR aren't going to move their Newquay Cornwall flights to LTN along with the other destinations. Much better connections to London from LTN than from that Essex airport. It makes a difference when the flight is only 60 minutes duration. Any chance, MOL??
The extra flights are good news for LTN but to be sure, MOL isn't doing it because of his love of Luton Airport. Remember the late 1980's, when LTN was their London base? IF BAA have a change of heart (ie become cheaper again or offer more incentives) then those flights could move back to STN.
On another theme, is it too much to ask the airport management to provide decent car parks (potholes everywhere), and to clean up the litter more efficiently/more frequently that is all too obvious outside the terminal, close to the fence? Baggage reclaim has always been a bit of a joke (cramped, not enough carousels). What can't UK airport designers/operators get it right? Buildings that resemble tin sheds, acres of ghastly carpets, poor signeage, in-your-face shopping ads, litter, badly designed car parking, poor access... ordo the great British flying public get the airports they deserve??
The extra flights are good news for LTN but to be sure, MOL isn't doing it because of his love of Luton Airport. Remember the late 1980's, when LTN was their London base? IF BAA have a change of heart (ie become cheaper again or offer more incentives) then those flights could move back to STN.
On another theme, is it too much to ask the airport management to provide decent car parks (potholes everywhere), and to clean up the litter more efficiently/more frequently that is all too obvious outside the terminal, close to the fence? Baggage reclaim has always been a bit of a joke (cramped, not enough carousels). What can't UK airport designers/operators get it right? Buildings that resemble tin sheds, acres of ghastly carpets, poor signeage, in-your-face shopping ads, litter, badly designed car parking, poor access... ordo the great British flying public get the airports they deserve??
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I still do not see how 1000 jobs will come from an extra 1,000,000 pax via RYR? Maybe 200 staff to fly and crew inc those already based and a few line maintenance staff, a few extra at check in, security, apron staff, a couple of extra re-fuellers?
The days of 1000 workers to 1,000,000 pax were in the times of high cost airlines. RYR will employ only the bear (Not me) minimum and so will their sub contractors.
Anyway, still blissfully good news for Luton. Who knows just how long it will last though.
The days of 1000 workers to 1,000,000 pax were in the times of high cost airlines. RYR will employ only the bear (Not me) minimum and so will their sub contractors.
Anyway, still blissfully good news for Luton. Who knows just how long it will last though.
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Classic case of MOL fudging the figures to make FR look good. Fact is, they ain't that good...... see other currently running threads.
FR would do well to look at LTN-PIK-LTN in competition with EZY and maybe get into Spain a bit more, maybe MJV !
With some STN routes looking like they will close when the -300's vanish, MOL will need to start new routes or increase frequency on others to compensate.
Anyway, FR will move back into STN when the dust settles. But then with all the shiny new -800's he can't afford arriving at a fast rate, where will he park them? Even STN is getting full....
FR would do well to look at LTN-PIK-LTN in competition with EZY and maybe get into Spain a bit more, maybe MJV !
With some STN routes looking like they will close when the -300's vanish, MOL will need to start new routes or increase frequency on others to compensate.
Anyway, FR will move back into STN when the dust settles. But then with all the shiny new -800's he can't afford arriving at a fast rate, where will he park them? Even STN is getting full....
With BAA spending money like water at Stansted the airport will soon be an expensive airport to operated from although the airport is ideal for Ryanair as it likes to operate from airports in the middle of nowhere and you can’t get a much more remote airport in southern England than Stansted.
On the other hand TBI are always short of money and like to spend next to nothing at Luton unless they really have to which is something Ryanair will like. The state of the short term car park is a classic example although I have heard that TBI are going to rent it out to Land Rover as an ideal testing ground for their vehicles.
On the other hand TBI are always short of money and like to spend next to nothing at Luton unless they really have to which is something Ryanair will like. The state of the short term car park is a classic example although I have heard that TBI are going to rent it out to Land Rover as an ideal testing ground for their vehicles.
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Agreed LTN Man. TBI & Ryanair are almost like one of a kind when it comes to spending money and in that they are well suited.
Luton will always have 'limited' use for Ryanair as against STN but MOL probably sees it as not such a bad thing to base the odd additional aircraft at LTN every few months and add a couple of routes every so often, as the occassional alternative to the high spending, money grabing, monopoly known as BAA.
Access is easier at LTN and some believe LTN may actually out-perform those routes that will be continued & run in parallel with those from STN. At the end of the day, easy do very well out of LTN & STN, so why shouldn't ryanair do the same and have a piece of the action.
Arn't NCP meant to be adding 2000 car parking spaces to cover the expected increase in pax. If so, where?. Needs a multi-storey somewhere.
Luton will always have 'limited' use for Ryanair as against STN but MOL probably sees it as not such a bad thing to base the odd additional aircraft at LTN every few months and add a couple of routes every so often, as the occassional alternative to the high spending, money grabing, monopoly known as BAA.
Access is easier at LTN and some believe LTN may actually out-perform those routes that will be continued & run in parallel with those from STN. At the end of the day, easy do very well out of LTN & STN, so why shouldn't ryanair do the same and have a piece of the action.
Arn't NCP meant to be adding 2000 car parking spaces to cover the expected increase in pax. If so, where?. Needs a multi-storey somewhere.
7,000,000 use LTN
According to the airport's website London Luton Airport has passed the 7 million barrier. It passed the 6 million barrier in October 2000, I guess this time next year 8 million will be passed.
I also see in the airports new passenger magazine that the first floor above the check-in area plus 2 new piers will be open for Christmas 2005.
I would have thought that TBI would like their 2 stands back that are being used by EasyTech for their tent.
I also see in the airports new passenger magazine that the first floor above the check-in area plus 2 new piers will be open for Christmas 2005.
I would have thought that TBI would like their 2 stands back that are being used by EasyTech for their tent.
Last edited by LTNman; 28th Jul 2004 at 11:33.
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Buster, bmibaby use the same rule of thumb as Ryanair - ie 1,000 jobs per 1,000,000 passengers:
"However, with the one million plus passengers we're projecting from Birmingham by 2005, Department for Transport figures suggest that the wider local impact of bmibaby in the West Midlands will be an additional 1,000 local jobs." quote from Tony Davis, MD of bmibaby.
The DfT in turn undoubtedly were influenced by consultants such as York Aviation
http://www.yorkaviation.co.uk
who recently produced this report for the ACI Europe:
http://www.eraa.org/socialecoimpact.pdf
It is debatable exactly how many regional jobs are created due to new services at an airport.
"However, with the one million plus passengers we're projecting from Birmingham by 2005, Department for Transport figures suggest that the wider local impact of bmibaby in the West Midlands will be an additional 1,000 local jobs." quote from Tony Davis, MD of bmibaby.
The DfT in turn undoubtedly were influenced by consultants such as York Aviation
http://www.yorkaviation.co.uk
who recently produced this report for the ACI Europe:
http://www.eraa.org/socialecoimpact.pdf
It is debatable exactly how many regional jobs are created due to new services at an airport.
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LTN Man
If, and it is a big if, Wizzair are still around and flying to LTN this time next year, 8m pax might be a little conservative. With a couple of things still 'brewing', a figure nearer 9m pax is quite possible.
If, and it is a big if, Wizzair are still around and flying to LTN this time next year, 8m pax might be a little conservative. With a couple of things still 'brewing', a figure nearer 9m pax is quite possible.
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The Baltic News Service reports easyJet is in talks with Tallinn Airport about starting services to the Estonian capital. However, the talks are believed to have stalled over the airline’s demand for lower charges.
Eduard Turr, the airport’s marketing director, told Estonian daily Postimees: ‘If we were to meet them halfway, we’d have to lower airport fees for all carriers.’ But he added that one option could be to offer easyJet ‘lower fees outside rush hours’.
According to the report, easyJet is also considering launching flights to Riga.
Eduard Turr, the airport’s marketing director, told Estonian daily Postimees: ‘If we were to meet them halfway, we’d have to lower airport fees for all carriers.’ But he added that one option could be to offer easyJet ‘lower fees outside rush hours’.
According to the report, easyJet is also considering launching flights to Riga.
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New Stands at Luton?
My diminutive spy tells me that some sort of meeting was held at Luton yesterday to discuss plans for building the very much needed new stands.
Anybody out there with some more definitive information?
Anybody out there with some more definitive information?