Flybe point to point
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: manchester
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flybe point to point
Flybe are now a strictly point to point airline which means.
No through check of luggage.
No onward boarding cards.
No major airline co operation.
No alliance with Air France.
No alliance with Continental or Delta from LGW.
So next it will be ,No lounge, No frequent flyer programme,No economy plus.
If Flybe are going to be serious about becoming a low fares airline they have to ditch their lounges,frequent traveller awards,paper tickets and economy plus product.and change their aircraft and move from Bhd to Bfs so as to be able to operate 24/7,to compete.As it is,in their current state I give them two years max at Bhd and then they will either move airports or pull out from Northern Ireland as Easyjet,Jet2 and Bmi baby pile more pressure on.
No through check of luggage.
No onward boarding cards.
No major airline co operation.
No alliance with Air France.
No alliance with Continental or Delta from LGW.
So next it will be ,No lounge, No frequent flyer programme,No economy plus.
If Flybe are going to be serious about becoming a low fares airline they have to ditch their lounges,frequent traveller awards,paper tickets and economy plus product.and change their aircraft and move from Bhd to Bfs so as to be able to operate 24/7,to compete.As it is,in their current state I give them two years max at Bhd and then they will either move airports or pull out from Northern Ireland as Easyjet,Jet2 and Bmi baby pile more pressure on.
Last edited by glynn-kayes; 9th Apr 2004 at 03:26.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: belfast
Posts: 669
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glynn, if you really feel so strongly about Flybe operations, then why don't you direct them to Mr French, I'm sure he would love to hear from you! Obviously he is just waiting for somebody "in the know" (even if now retired) to tell him how to run his airline. Just tell him he's doing everything wrong and how it should be done!
If you feel so strongly against Flybe, better to contact the airline than rant and rave on these forums.
If you feel so strongly against Flybe, better to contact the airline than rant and rave on these forums.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is an interesting development if true.I reluctantly use the docks(sorry,harbour) when I fly to the US simply because I can't be bothered to schlepp my bags through Gatwick from one terminal to the other.If FlyBe are going down that route I may as well give Easy my domestic business...at least the aircraft are newer...and NEVER Dash anythings......
Almcc
pots and kettles swim into my mind
Almcc
than rant and rave on these forums
pots and kettles swim into my mind
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glynn,
The bit I dont understand is how can a full service operator change in to a low cost operator, you can streamline and cut out all the full service extra's but surely its the overhead costs that are require to be reduced to compete with the lo-co's.
How does Flybe's operating costs compare with Jet2, Easy etc?
Look at the US airlines like Delta etc, they came up with Song (but didnt they try another approach that ended in failure prior to song?) to compete against the lo-co's, they can swap and change their fleet, improve their utilisation of said fleets but if the overhead costs are high then how can you really compete on a level playing field.
Without getting myself in to the BFS / BHD argument, but I just wonder if Flybe will become a niche operator serving the airports that have not attracted the Lo-co's for whatever reason and vacate the routes operated by the lo-co's.
I just cant see where Flybe's strategy is heading, anyone like to enlighten me?
ALLMMCC - Hijack? or is it just personal?
The bit I dont understand is how can a full service operator change in to a low cost operator, you can streamline and cut out all the full service extra's but surely its the overhead costs that are require to be reduced to compete with the lo-co's.
How does Flybe's operating costs compare with Jet2, Easy etc?
Look at the US airlines like Delta etc, they came up with Song (but didnt they try another approach that ended in failure prior to song?) to compete against the lo-co's, they can swap and change their fleet, improve their utilisation of said fleets but if the overhead costs are high then how can you really compete on a level playing field.
Without getting myself in to the BFS / BHD argument, but I just wonder if Flybe will become a niche operator serving the airports that have not attracted the Lo-co's for whatever reason and vacate the routes operated by the lo-co's.
I just cant see where Flybe's strategy is heading, anyone like to enlighten me?
ALLMMCC - Hijack? or is it just personal?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: belfast
Posts: 669
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eastern
Just to take you up on one point "at least they're (Easyjets) aircraft are newer" - none of Flybe's Dash 8s (including the 200/300s) are more than four years old - as for the 146s, admittedly most are a bit long in the tooth, then again most of Easyjets 733s of which they still have many (including the inherited Go ones) are of similar vintage and with considerably more airframe hours than the 146s of Flybe - food for thought before you rush to fly in a "newer" aircraft!
Just to take you up on one point "at least they're (Easyjets) aircraft are newer" - none of Flybe's Dash 8s (including the 200/300s) are more than four years old - as for the 146s, admittedly most are a bit long in the tooth, then again most of Easyjets 733s of which they still have many (including the inherited Go ones) are of similar vintage and with considerably more airframe hours than the 146s of Flybe - food for thought before you rush to fly in a "newer" aircraft!
Last edited by ALLMCC; 9th Apr 2004 at 10:07.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Coventry
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely, Flybe's niche, as Chillwinston is saying, is to operate routes where a 78 seater might be viable, but a 150 seat 737 wouldn't be. I would guess the whole operation at EXT, SOU & BHD comes under this banner, whereas at BHX, they have the flexibility to increase frequency - which is obviously v.important for key business routes like GLA/EDI.
AFAIK, their strategy is to move towards only 2 aircraft types - the Q400 & the 146. They have talked about the option of looking into 737's at a later date, but imho this would put them in the same league as all the others, and what would be their usp in that dog fight? A q400 has costs/seat/km v. similar to a 737, but half the risk exposure, so I would imagine there must be plenty of routes flybe could look at, and operate daily, which other locos could only consider on a very sporadic basis (what is the point in going somewhere only once or twice per week - like ww from MME - you might aswell just be a charter airline)
AFAIK, their strategy is to move towards only 2 aircraft types - the Q400 & the 146. They have talked about the option of looking into 737's at a later date, but imho this would put them in the same league as all the others, and what would be their usp in that dog fight? A q400 has costs/seat/km v. similar to a 737, but half the risk exposure, so I would imagine there must be plenty of routes flybe could look at, and operate daily, which other locos could only consider on a very sporadic basis (what is the point in going somewhere only once or twice per week - like ww from MME - you might aswell just be a charter airline)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: ENGLAND
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
glynn-kayes, where did you get all this information?
a) pax CAN through check, for example pax travelling EDI-BHX-JER can check-in themselves and their luggage at EDI for both flights.
b) do you know any other UK low-fares airlines with a major alliance???
c) There is no allicance with AF, but BE still operate the BHX-CDG route for AF. There is no place for an AF codeshare in a low fares airline.
The 'extras' such as the lounges, FF programme and Economy plus have been heavily invested in and will not dissappear any time soon. They are extremely well recieved by pax and set Flybe. above other low fares airlines and even some traditional airlines. The complimentary sandwiches on Flybe for Economy plus pax are far superior than many recieved on higher fares airlines.
As for paper tickets, the majority of Flybe tickets are E tickets these days, but paper tickets are still in circulation, mainly for staff passengers.
Change their a/c and move to BFS, without swearing you are a proper T**T GK! I am not even going to go into this topic, everyone out there knows WHY BE have stayed at BHD and WHY they operate smaller a/c.
The mere little insignificant fact that BE were on the brink 18months ago and are now making a profit should show you that they are doing things right, right for pax, right for the market and right for the employees.
I can only imagine you are either a disgruntled ex-employee or have been rejected by BE on one or more occassions, either way you are a very bitter man :o(
sad regards
Mike
a) pax CAN through check, for example pax travelling EDI-BHX-JER can check-in themselves and their luggage at EDI for both flights.
b) do you know any other UK low-fares airlines with a major alliance???
c) There is no allicance with AF, but BE still operate the BHX-CDG route for AF. There is no place for an AF codeshare in a low fares airline.
The 'extras' such as the lounges, FF programme and Economy plus have been heavily invested in and will not dissappear any time soon. They are extremely well recieved by pax and set Flybe. above other low fares airlines and even some traditional airlines. The complimentary sandwiches on Flybe for Economy plus pax are far superior than many recieved on higher fares airlines.
As for paper tickets, the majority of Flybe tickets are E tickets these days, but paper tickets are still in circulation, mainly for staff passengers.
Change their a/c and move to BFS, without swearing you are a proper T**T GK! I am not even going to go into this topic, everyone out there knows WHY BE have stayed at BHD and WHY they operate smaller a/c.
The mere little insignificant fact that BE were on the brink 18months ago and are now making a profit should show you that they are doing things right, right for pax, right for the market and right for the employees.
I can only imagine you are either a disgruntled ex-employee or have been rejected by BE on one or more occassions, either way you are a very bitter man :o(
sad regards
Mike
I hope I'm wrong MEFLYBE, but I think Glynn started this topic because Flybe operate from BHD and not BFS and therefore need to be castigated whenever possible.
As for Flybe, cracking little airline, shame about the number of delays they seem to suffer from BHX.
As for Flybe, cracking little airline, shame about the number of delays they seem to suffer from BHX.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: ENGLAND
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have 2 points:
A) IF Flybe are so bad, WHY do you want them up at BFS????
B) IF Flybe moved to BFS they wouldnt have a chance of survival in NI, they would be in direct competiton with easyJet on the majority of their mainland UK flights. BE has stuck with BHD because THAT is their main advantage over the carriers that use BFS. For pure reduction of stress, give me BHD over BFS anyday!
I am NOT saying BFS is a bad airport, just that convenience is more important to me than paying £20 or £30 less for my ticket.
Regards
Mike
A) IF Flybe are so bad, WHY do you want them up at BFS????
B) IF Flybe moved to BFS they wouldnt have a chance of survival in NI, they would be in direct competiton with easyJet on the majority of their mainland UK flights. BE has stuck with BHD because THAT is their main advantage over the carriers that use BFS. For pure reduction of stress, give me BHD over BFS anyday!
I am NOT saying BFS is a bad airport, just that convenience is more important to me than paying £20 or £30 less for my ticket.
Regards
Mike
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Comical old pal...I said I disliked flying in a DASH ANYTHING so your assertion that
would not even appear on my radar as far as a selling point is concerned. The 146 I find cramped and the locker space poor.Easyjet aircraft(and for some reason the ex Go machines ) SEEM to my mind offer a slightly higher level of comfort(still packed in tight though
.
Mike
Precisely Glynns' point...if FlyBe are(and this is NOT confirmed) no longer transferring baggage from their for example "Continental" coded BHD LGW flights to "proper" Continental flights at LGW then you may as well save the cash.On a personal note I seem to notice more delays/return to base with Dash aircraft than with ANY Boeing73xx
none of Flybe's Dash 8s (including the200/300s) are more than four years old
. Mike
convenience is more important to me than paying £20 or £30
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why is flybe. continuing to operate the expensive 100-seat BAe 146, when there are a number of more efficient 100-seaters in the market that are quite cheap to lease right now?
The Boeing 717 for example, has a similar capacity to the 146, seating 117Y if you wanted to have it at a 31" seat pitch, the aircraft has a more substantial range than the 146, and similar performance for operating from short runways (like SOU).
The Boeing 717 for example, has a similar capacity to the 146, seating 117Y if you wanted to have it at a 31" seat pitch, the aircraft has a more substantial range than the 146, and similar performance for operating from short runways (like SOU).
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lite,
The simple answer to the 146 debate is that lease rates for this aircraft are at rock bottom. You need only take a drive past Exeter Airport and you'll find at least 10 there awaiting new homes. Yes it may be more expensive to operate than 717's for example but the extra cost of leasing these aircraft far outways the savings in day to day operation. Flybe know the 146 inside out from the maintenance point of view and this is also very valuable to the airline.
Glynn,
Flybe are NOT solely a point to point airline in the same ilk as Easyjet, at least not yet!!! There is no question that it is far more efficient to operate without connecting passengers and this has been mooted in the past for Flybe. At present Flybe will still interline you with any of their partner airlines at LGW such as Virgin/Delta/Continental, but how much longer this will be for is debateable.
The franchise with Air France is still alive and Flybe will look to extend the current contract for the BHXCDG route when it comes up for renewal. Remember it is Flybe that own the rights to operate this route...NOT Air France.
My final point is that Flybe are not trying to be a low cost airline....THEY ARE A LOW COST AIRLINE!!! infact the 3rd largest in the UK....why not just accept this fact!. They have a larger advertising spend than both Easyjet and Ryanair in the national press and passengers numbers are emphasising this. Flybe are doing very well thank you!
The simple answer to the 146 debate is that lease rates for this aircraft are at rock bottom. You need only take a drive past Exeter Airport and you'll find at least 10 there awaiting new homes. Yes it may be more expensive to operate than 717's for example but the extra cost of leasing these aircraft far outways the savings in day to day operation. Flybe know the 146 inside out from the maintenance point of view and this is also very valuable to the airline.
Glynn,
Flybe are NOT solely a point to point airline in the same ilk as Easyjet, at least not yet!!! There is no question that it is far more efficient to operate without connecting passengers and this has been mooted in the past for Flybe. At present Flybe will still interline you with any of their partner airlines at LGW such as Virgin/Delta/Continental, but how much longer this will be for is debateable.
The franchise with Air France is still alive and Flybe will look to extend the current contract for the BHXCDG route when it comes up for renewal. Remember it is Flybe that own the rights to operate this route...NOT Air France.
My final point is that Flybe are not trying to be a low cost airline....THEY ARE A LOW COST AIRLINE!!! infact the 3rd largest in the UK....why not just accept this fact!. They have a larger advertising spend than both Easyjet and Ryanair in the national press and passengers numbers are emphasising this. Flybe are doing very well thank you!
