bmibaby/AIr Wales make agreement
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bmibaby/AIr Wales make agreement
bmibaby and Air Wales launch new marketing agreement
bmibaby - the award winning airline with tiny fares, and Air Wales - Wales’ national Airline, have formed an agreement to operate flight routes between Cardiff and Glasgow (Prestwick), and Cardiff and Cork.
The agreement, which comes into effect on 28 March 2004, will see Air Wales aircraft operating the flights using their fleet of luxury 48 seater ATRs with bmibaby marketing and selling the flights online at bmibaby.com and via their reservations centre (0870 264 2229).
The deal signals good news for passengers who will continue to benefit from low fares on both routes (internet fares start from just £24.94 one way including all taxes and charges), in addition to an increase in the frequency of services and convenient departure times for business travellers.
The arrangement was made to enable an increase in frequency of the existing flight services which could be facilitated by using the smaller, 48 seater Aircraft that Air Wales currently operates. The move also means that both airlines will be able to increase their services from Cardiff Airport in the future, including the introduction by bmibaby of a third daily service between Cardiff and Edinburgh.
Tony Davis, managing director of bmibaby, said:
“The agreement between bmibaby and Air Wales will enable passengers to benefit from even more services between Cardiff and both Glasgow and Cork. bmibaby is providing marketing and sales support for these routes and Air Wales are providing the operational support in terms of staffing and aircraft.
“In addition to this agreement bmibaby will be able to add a third daily service between Cardiff and Edinburgh to accommodate the overwhelming demand for seats, using one of our Boeing 737 aircraft.
“bmibaby is committed to the development of our successful base in Cardiff and this agreement with Air Wales, which is a first for a UK low cost airline, will further strengthen our position.”
Roy Thomas, Chief Executive of Air Wales, commented:
“This is great news for business and leisure commuters as it will enable us to operate even more regular low cost flights between Cardiff, Cork and Glasgow. It’s an agreement which will ensure that the travelling public gets the best service possible – an ethos which both Airlines are committed to.
“The move will also allow us to further concentrate on developing our portfolio from Cardiff and Swansea. We are currently awaiting the arrival of a 5th ATR aircraft to add to our growing fleet, and we will soon be announcing our new summer schedules which will feature even more low cost and convenient services than ever before.
“We’re delighted to have entered into this arrangement with bmibaby and are confident that it will add value to the service that Air Wales offers to all of its customers.”
Seats on the routes go on sale today, for more information, log on to bmibaby.com.
bmibaby - the award winning airline with tiny fares, and Air Wales - Wales’ national Airline, have formed an agreement to operate flight routes between Cardiff and Glasgow (Prestwick), and Cardiff and Cork.
The agreement, which comes into effect on 28 March 2004, will see Air Wales aircraft operating the flights using their fleet of luxury 48 seater ATRs with bmibaby marketing and selling the flights online at bmibaby.com and via their reservations centre (0870 264 2229).
The deal signals good news for passengers who will continue to benefit from low fares on both routes (internet fares start from just £24.94 one way including all taxes and charges), in addition to an increase in the frequency of services and convenient departure times for business travellers.
The arrangement was made to enable an increase in frequency of the existing flight services which could be facilitated by using the smaller, 48 seater Aircraft that Air Wales currently operates. The move also means that both airlines will be able to increase their services from Cardiff Airport in the future, including the introduction by bmibaby of a third daily service between Cardiff and Edinburgh.
Tony Davis, managing director of bmibaby, said:
“The agreement between bmibaby and Air Wales will enable passengers to benefit from even more services between Cardiff and both Glasgow and Cork. bmibaby is providing marketing and sales support for these routes and Air Wales are providing the operational support in terms of staffing and aircraft.
“In addition to this agreement bmibaby will be able to add a third daily service between Cardiff and Edinburgh to accommodate the overwhelming demand for seats, using one of our Boeing 737 aircraft.
“bmibaby is committed to the development of our successful base in Cardiff and this agreement with Air Wales, which is a first for a UK low cost airline, will further strengthen our position.”
Roy Thomas, Chief Executive of Air Wales, commented:
“This is great news for business and leisure commuters as it will enable us to operate even more regular low cost flights between Cardiff, Cork and Glasgow. It’s an agreement which will ensure that the travelling public gets the best service possible – an ethos which both Airlines are committed to.
“The move will also allow us to further concentrate on developing our portfolio from Cardiff and Swansea. We are currently awaiting the arrival of a 5th ATR aircraft to add to our growing fleet, and we will soon be announcing our new summer schedules which will feature even more low cost and convenient services than ever before.
“We’re delighted to have entered into this arrangement with bmibaby and are confident that it will add value to the service that Air Wales offers to all of its customers.”
Seats on the routes go on sale today, for more information, log on to bmibaby.com.
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I think its a sign that bmibaby isn't doing too well from CWL. These routes are currently operated by a 737, by "downgrading" to an ATR just shows that bmibaby couldn't make any money and there is not enough passengers from these routes. In fact many routes from CWL are not performing well in comparison to EMA and MAN. Apart from the extra daily Edinburgh, i doubt CWL will see new routes and the a/c that was used will probably be used to operate a route from MAN, EMA or possibly even LGW.
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I know I promised I would no longer post on these forums however couldn't resist commenting on this one - how long before Belfast is added to this arrangement? - has always been a poor performer - even after Air Wales vacated the BHD - CWL loads didn't improve significantly.
Also begs the question, will Air Wales be able to cope with these additional routes even with the forthcoming additional ATR42?
Also begs the question, will Air Wales be able to cope with these additional routes even with the forthcoming additional ATR42?
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This is good news for Air Wales and should be a good move for Bmi. It would work out more profitable for Bmi to use a smaller a/c if they cannot sustain a 737 but I doubt the fares will be as low as they make out due to the fact it is much harder to sell lower prices on a 48 seater and make it profitable.
Will Air Wales be painting the ATR into BMI colours? and will they use the baby callsign?
I can see both airlines making a profit from this well done Bmi and Air wales.
Will Air Wales be painting the ATR into BMI colours? and will they use the baby callsign?
I can see both airlines making a profit from this well done Bmi and Air wales.
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Sorry I don't agree, give it 6 months and this agreement will end.
It doesn't fit in with the low cost set up. Two opertaors mean half profits. There will be an erosion of Baby's image using other airlines and aircraft - no continuity. If routes are under perfoming, then like FR they should be scrapped. No, I think this spells disaster and at Cardiffs expense.
It doesn't fit in with the low cost set up. Two opertaors mean half profits. There will be an erosion of Baby's image using other airlines and aircraft - no continuity. If routes are under perfoming, then like FR they should be scrapped. No, I think this spells disaster and at Cardiffs expense.
Does this make Baby the first low cost in Europe to have a commuter carrier as well ? In the US Air Tran (the old ValuJet)have an arrangement with Air Wisconsin for CRJs. But if Baby want a smaller aircraft (bear in mind they started off at Cardiff with BMI F100s on some routes) why didn't they go to BMI again for some Embraers ?
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What a load of pessimistic sh*te uttered by those who I assume have no idea of the operation at Cardiff.
This is a deal which compliments both airlines. The Spanish routes flown by Baby are always full, as are the likes of Prague etc, Routes to Prestwick, Cork and Jersey are much better served by the ATR 42 ( and rumour has it ATR72s may be on the way)
Prior to Baby and Air Wales serving Cardiff, British Regional operated EMB145s out of there, can you tell me why it is seen as a down turn for an aircraft offering more seats than were previously offered to be operating the routes.
Small regional aircraft such as the ATR42 also allow for a greater flexibility of routes, places such as Plymouth and lets hope Guernsey can also be added to the route structure.
Cardiff is a small regional airport, the likely hood of it ever becoming one of the "big boys" is remote , so when two airlines whose type of operation compliment each other decide upon a scheme of co-operation it can only be seen as a bonus.
.
This is a deal which compliments both airlines. The Spanish routes flown by Baby are always full, as are the likes of Prague etc, Routes to Prestwick, Cork and Jersey are much better served by the ATR 42 ( and rumour has it ATR72s may be on the way)
Prior to Baby and Air Wales serving Cardiff, British Regional operated EMB145s out of there, can you tell me why it is seen as a down turn for an aircraft offering more seats than were previously offered to be operating the routes.
Small regional aircraft such as the ATR42 also allow for a greater flexibility of routes, places such as Plymouth and lets hope Guernsey can also be added to the route structure.
Cardiff is a small regional airport, the likely hood of it ever becoming one of the "big boys" is remote , so when two airlines whose type of operation compliment each other decide upon a scheme of co-operation it can only be seen as a bonus.
.
Posted by Eira:
I presume this is a reference to the Baby press release that referred to a "luxury 48 seater ATR " !!!
What a load of sh*te uttered by those who I assume have no idea of the operation at Cardiff.
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I am confused about the new arrangements. I have checked bmibaby’s summer online timetable (commencing end of March) and the following weekday flights are listed:
Prague - 3 rotations per week; Paris Cdg - 1 rotation per day: Alicante - 1 rotation per day; Malaga - 1 rotation per day; Palma - 2 rotations per week; Belfast Int - 1 rotation per day; Edinburgh - 3 rotations per day; Glasgow Prestwick - 1 rotation per day; Cork - 2 rotations per week.
These destinations also have flights on Saturdays or Sundays or both, and there are also weekend rotations to Toulouse (Sats) and to Jersey (Suns).
None of the flights are being advertised as flown by Air Wales and, Edinburgh apart, the routes have either the same or fewer rotations compared to last summer. It may be that the Air Wales flights are yet to be slotted into baby’s web timetable. If so, I find it strange that the public announcement should be made before the timetable is brought up to date. Or am I missing something?
There is nothing on the Air Wales website about the new arrangements, neither are any flights shown to Glasgow Prestwick on their site.
For some reason baby have changed from the twenty-four hour clock to am and pm on their web timetable which is unwieldy on the page and, even more confusingly, have adopted the US method of showing dates so that, for example, 9/8/04 is 8 September 2004.
This is an interesting initiative and it will be fascinating to see whether it succeeds.
Prague - 3 rotations per week; Paris Cdg - 1 rotation per day: Alicante - 1 rotation per day; Malaga - 1 rotation per day; Palma - 2 rotations per week; Belfast Int - 1 rotation per day; Edinburgh - 3 rotations per day; Glasgow Prestwick - 1 rotation per day; Cork - 2 rotations per week.
These destinations also have flights on Saturdays or Sundays or both, and there are also weekend rotations to Toulouse (Sats) and to Jersey (Suns).
None of the flights are being advertised as flown by Air Wales and, Edinburgh apart, the routes have either the same or fewer rotations compared to last summer. It may be that the Air Wales flights are yet to be slotted into baby’s web timetable. If so, I find it strange that the public announcement should be made before the timetable is brought up to date. Or am I missing something?
There is nothing on the Air Wales website about the new arrangements, neither are any flights shown to Glasgow Prestwick on their site.
For some reason baby have changed from the twenty-four hour clock to am and pm on their web timetable which is unwieldy on the page and, even more confusingly, have adopted the US method of showing dates so that, for example, 9/8/04 is 8 September 2004.
This is an interesting initiative and it will be fascinating to see whether it succeeds.
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What a load of pessimistic sh*te uttered by those who I assume have no idea of the operation at Cardiff.
Ill ask MOL if he would be interested in a similar set up. Any guesses what his reply would be ? Going by Buzz -its not cooperate- but buy up and wipe out.
We'll see how long this arrangement lasts in this planned form.
Give it 6 months.
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If you look at the booking on bmibaby website and select Cork or Glasgow from 28th of March onwards it says operated by Air Wales.
Why is it when ever Air Wales is mentioned everybody says 6 months? How long they been going for?
Good luck anyway be intresting to see how it develops.
Why is it when ever Air Wales is mentioned everybody says 6 months? How long they been going for?
Good luck anyway be intresting to see how it develops.
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Comical Ali sorry! allmcc wrote
Knew you couldn't resist...nice to see you back
Let the baiting commence. As an aside I had to pick folk up from the Bmi ex Cardiff this afternoon ..looked fullish to me...a lot more than ever would have fitted into a "luxurious Atr 42"
know I promised I would no longer post on these forums however couldn't resist commenting on this one
Knew you couldn't resist...nice to see you back
Let the baiting commence. As an aside I had to pick folk up from the Bmi ex Cardiff this afternoon ..looked fullish to me...a lot more than ever would have fitted into a "luxurious Atr 42"
Brunel to Concorde
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Thank you Hulk.
I have played around with the baby booking site and, as you say, they do show the PIK and ORK flights as being operated by Air Wales. In fact, there appear to be two daily PIK rotations on weekdays and one daily (with two on Mondays and Fridays) weekday ORK rotations. I did not check weekends.
Strange that the baby web timetable shows only one daily PIK rotation on weekdays and only two ORK weekly rotations on weekdays.
The baby booking site also shows the flights as having WW flight numbers. I wonder if they will code-share and carry 6G as well.
I have played around with the baby booking site and, as you say, they do show the PIK and ORK flights as being operated by Air Wales. In fact, there appear to be two daily PIK rotations on weekdays and one daily (with two on Mondays and Fridays) weekday ORK rotations. I did not check weekends.
Strange that the baby web timetable shows only one daily PIK rotation on weekdays and only two ORK weekly rotations on weekdays.
The baby booking site also shows the flights as having WW flight numbers. I wonder if they will code-share and carry 6G as well.
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MV
This sounds more like a franchise arrangement than a code-share - ie the flights will only have WW codes - bit like when BA used Maersk UK they were only BA flight numbers not VB.
Still can't see the commercial sense in continuing with a route which doesn't generate sufficient traffic for your own fleet, easyJet or Ryanair would have just ditched the route.
This sounds more like a franchise arrangement than a code-share - ie the flights will only have WW codes - bit like when BA used Maersk UK they were only BA flight numbers not VB.
Still can't see the commercial sense in continuing with a route which doesn't generate sufficient traffic for your own fleet, easyJet or Ryanair would have just ditched the route.
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Nice to see you back onboard ALLMCC, self emposed exile was a bit extereme but obviously your resistance is weak, lol!
Can understand the benefits for airlines to interline but cast your memories back to the same arrangement BMI had with Eastern and remember how long that lasted and now are competing on the same routes.
Hope it all works out for Roy, at least he has put his money where his mouth is but I just cant see this arrangement working out in the long term.
Chillwinston
Can understand the benefits for airlines to interline but cast your memories back to the same arrangement BMI had with Eastern and remember how long that lasted and now are competing on the same routes.
Hope it all works out for Roy, at least he has put his money where his mouth is but I just cant see this arrangement working out in the long term.
Chillwinston
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Ryanair were right not to compete with BMIbaby when they started flying to Dublin in the same way they competed against Go.
O'Leary must have realised back then that BMI didn't have a clue what they were up to, and would end up shutting their experiment.
A 'low cost carrier' Codesharing with an ATR operator on routes that don't allow interlining (in the way Air Tran Air Wisconsin do at ATL) from a marginal airport in Wales shows signs of desperation at WW.
So, will they survive next winter before LH and SK decide to pull the plug on Bishops knee jerk reaction to Go at EMA?
Reminds me of Buzz planning to go into the mobile phone industry!
O'Leary must have realised back then that BMI didn't have a clue what they were up to, and would end up shutting their experiment.
A 'low cost carrier' Codesharing with an ATR operator on routes that don't allow interlining (in the way Air Tran Air Wisconsin do at ATL) from a marginal airport in Wales shows signs of desperation at WW.
So, will they survive next winter before LH and SK decide to pull the plug on Bishops knee jerk reaction to Go at EMA?
Reminds me of Buzz planning to go into the mobile phone industry!
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I understand an Air Wales ATR42 will be painted in BMI Baby colours for this operation. The Prestwick route was due to be reduced to one flight daily from 28th March. It has now been reinstated to the current 2 flights on weekdays with one on weekends. I have used this flight quite freqently over the past 12 months. The one round trip I made between Cardiff and Glasgow only had about 30 passengers on each sector. Of the many return flights I have made to Prestwick, only the flights on Friday evenings, Saturday mornings and Sunday evenings have had a decent load factor of about 75-80%. The passenger load on other flights has always been between 40 to 60 - less than 50%. BMI Baby's response was to reduce the flight to once daily but that would have lost any day return traffic. The Air Wales operation should just about provide the right capacity for the route providing fares do not rise too dramatically as a result. Looking at the CAA statistics, traffic on the route has remained fairly constant since moving from Glasgow to Prestwick. BMI Baby had realised the route was underperforming and the move would have reduced costs although it has not as yet shown much gain in traffic.
BMI Baby have not yet updated their schedules on the web-site but anyone requesting a booking are given the correct schedules.
BMI Baby have not yet updated their schedules on the web-site but anyone requesting a booking are given the correct schedules.
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Scottish Flyer,
I think the point you make is a good one. The reduction to one flight per day would have lost those wanting to make a daytrip, and the ATR might be the right size for the route, particularly bearing in mind your personal observations of loads.
Obviously price will be a factor but baby's marketing and ease of booking should be better than Air Wales's.
I now wonder whether the baby CWL-JER, which has been reduced to Sundays only, will now re-appear as a daily flight on Air Wales equipment. Air Wales's owner has said they are to announce their summer schedules soon. The flight could also take in Guernsey I suppose.
I think the point you make is a good one. The reduction to one flight per day would have lost those wanting to make a daytrip, and the ATR might be the right size for the route, particularly bearing in mind your personal observations of loads.
Obviously price will be a factor but baby's marketing and ease of booking should be better than Air Wales's.
I now wonder whether the baby CWL-JER, which has been reduced to Sundays only, will now re-appear as a daily flight on Air Wales equipment. Air Wales's owner has said they are to announce their summer schedules soon. The flight could also take in Guernsey I suppose.
Of course the problem load wise is that Yes an ATR will be better suited during the quiet days when a 737 was loosing money on a 50% load. But equally they will be turning people away on the busy days when a 737 would be packing 'em in.
And besides. Pax don't like turboprops - not even nice shiny new ones. You book BMIBaby and you expect a jet. Stupid as it is but Joe Average Pax will feel cheated on an ATR...
It would be great to see Baby thrive at Cardiff but the place has got a bit of a reputation as an airline graveyard. Plenty of people, just no money.
Cheers
WWW
And besides. Pax don't like turboprops - not even nice shiny new ones. You book BMIBaby and you expect a jet. Stupid as it is but Joe Average Pax will feel cheated on an ATR...
It would be great to see Baby thrive at Cardiff but the place has got a bit of a reputation as an airline graveyard. Plenty of people, just no money.
Cheers
WWW