Chaos At VLM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The icy wasteland
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chaos At VLM
Has anybody been hearing the rumour that VLM are delaying the start of the new route from Liverpool to LCY?
According to the VLM website this is due to start on 23rd Feb, but the word is it may well get a delay due to crew shortages and lack of organisation.
Apparently the whole situation is becoming chaos, with talks of lack of management focus, low moral and serious pay issues.
There seems to be a lot of flights being cancelled across the network and especially from Manchester recently, is it worth joining them these days or are we better off in sunny Spain?
According to the VLM website this is due to start on 23rd Feb, but the word is it may well get a delay due to crew shortages and lack of organisation.
Apparently the whole situation is becoming chaos, with talks of lack of management focus, low moral and serious pay issues.
There seems to be a lot of flights being cancelled across the network and especially from Manchester recently, is it worth joining them these days or are we better off in sunny Spain?
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: belfast
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tak,
Chaos isn,t the word.. There,s a time bomb waiting to go off!
The airline has degenerated from one of the most professional Turboprop operators to a penny pinching sack of S**t.
A lot of the UK based crews are about to jump ship simply because they're sick of being lied to and treated like idiots by the management.
All that will be left to cover the Manchester and Liverpool routes will be a bunch of low hours new starters and a few contractors.
Unfortunately the distribution of wealth and perks has not been fair in the UK and very soon the sh*t is going to hit the fan.
There's a few guys that have tried to raise the profile of the problem but the management is bone headed and thick skinned,
morale is at an all time low.
I doubt the new route will start on time.
Chaos isn,t the word.. There,s a time bomb waiting to go off!
The airline has degenerated from one of the most professional Turboprop operators to a penny pinching sack of S**t.
A lot of the UK based crews are about to jump ship simply because they're sick of being lied to and treated like idiots by the management.
All that will be left to cover the Manchester and Liverpool routes will be a bunch of low hours new starters and a few contractors.
Unfortunately the distribution of wealth and perks has not been fair in the UK and very soon the sh*t is going to hit the fan.
There's a few guys that have tried to raise the profile of the problem but the management is bone headed and thick skinned,
morale is at an all time low.
I doubt the new route will start on time.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MY HOUSE
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Beavor,
Its a shame to be hearing all this stuff, a couple of the best guys I knew went to that outfit, maybe I'll get the low down later.
This sounds like another case of a non-uk carrier abusing the system and the crews.
I feel sorry for the regular guys, I know of at least one contractor thats been with VLM for 5 years!! whats that all about? no wonder there's no money for the other crew.
Word in AMS is that the pilots company wide are planning action.
Maybe the Liverpool people can put a stop to this before the route even starts!
If VLM think naming a a/c "City of Liverpool " is going to stop any action they must be effin mad boy.
This type of crap effects flight safety!!!
Its a shame to be hearing all this stuff, a couple of the best guys I knew went to that outfit, maybe I'll get the low down later.
This sounds like another case of a non-uk carrier abusing the system and the crews.
I feel sorry for the regular guys, I know of at least one contractor thats been with VLM for 5 years!! whats that all about? no wonder there's no money for the other crew.
Word in AMS is that the pilots company wide are planning action.
Maybe the Liverpool people can put a stop to this before the route even starts!
If VLM think naming a a/c "City of Liverpool " is going to stop any action they must be effin mad boy.
This type of crap effects flight safety!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The icy wasteland
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tak,
Calming down here guys!
We had a delegation from VLM the other month, one tall guy, a perma tanned guy and a short guy looking like Hitler, all a bit creepy, looking to do a deal on borrowing some crews when we lay them off.
Sounds like a lot of trouble cooking up here, I know we were approached by an agency looking for more F50 rated and current as the company was looking to save money on contractor costs.
Given the state of the industry I cant blame the guys for taking the jobs but it may be difficult for them when they get to the UK if they are earning more than the locals.
If it helps the arguement, the deal was about 50K euro for captains all in and 35K euro for FO, no travel home or hotac, but at least it's keeping working.
Keep me posted.
Calming down here guys!
We had a delegation from VLM the other month, one tall guy, a perma tanned guy and a short guy looking like Hitler, all a bit creepy, looking to do a deal on borrowing some crews when we lay them off.
Sounds like a lot of trouble cooking up here, I know we were approached by an agency looking for more F50 rated and current as the company was looking to save money on contractor costs.
Given the state of the industry I cant blame the guys for taking the jobs but it may be difficult for them when they get to the UK if they are earning more than the locals.
If it helps the arguement, the deal was about 50K euro for captains all in and 35K euro for FO, no travel home or hotac, but at least it's keeping working.
Keep me posted.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apparently the Manchester base is about to implode.
When will these foriegn carriers learn that they cannot ride roughshod over British crews and get away with it.
Its bad enough the airlines giving British based jobs to non-nationals, everyone excepts that a shortage of Type rated pilots can result in this happening, but these crews were UNEMPLOYED too! If They come to the UK, tow the line! don't screw up the bases!
It happened at Ryanair, it's happening now at easyjet and MyTravel and by all accounts at VLM too, eventually things settled down but not until half the crews had left and bad feeling was rife.
The employed Manchester cockpit and cabin crews, of all nationalities should stand as one unit against these oppressive regimes.
As for using contract Pilots for 5 years, are you kidding! whos getting a back-hander for that?
There can be no justification for the huge pay differentials that occur, don't you have equal rights laws?????
PS. They say the Emerald isles are worth a visit in May!!
When will these foriegn carriers learn that they cannot ride roughshod over British crews and get away with it.
Its bad enough the airlines giving British based jobs to non-nationals, everyone excepts that a shortage of Type rated pilots can result in this happening, but these crews were UNEMPLOYED too! If They come to the UK, tow the line! don't screw up the bases!
It happened at Ryanair, it's happening now at easyjet and MyTravel and by all accounts at VLM too, eventually things settled down but not until half the crews had left and bad feeling was rife.
The employed Manchester cockpit and cabin crews, of all nationalities should stand as one unit against these oppressive regimes.
As for using contract Pilots for 5 years, are you kidding! whos getting a back-hander for that?
There can be no justification for the huge pay differentials that occur, don't you have equal rights laws?????
PS. They say the Emerald isles are worth a visit in May!!
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 652
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its true when the ex Newair crews started there was a few problems, mainly due to changes in lifestyle and expectations.
Things have settled down a bit since then but the management in Antwerp recognised there was a need for a pay structure and did nothing about it........other than blow a load of hot air to try and calm things down.
Now with the start of the LPL route they are in a state of panic and are trying to keep the contract training captains sweet, rather than satisfy the regular crews.
Do you know of any other company where all the UK training captains are not employees?
These are not bad people to work with, quite the opposite infact, but the management must realise that stealing from the poor to pay the rich wont work.
It is unfortunate that such a short sighted approach is being taken to the problems, flights will end up being cancelled and this will not only cost the company revenue but reputation at a time when negative publicity could do a lot of damage.
If BA put an RJ on the Man-LCY route, it would all but finish the VLM operation out of Manchester.
Things have settled down a bit since then but the management in Antwerp recognised there was a need for a pay structure and did nothing about it........other than blow a load of hot air to try and calm things down.
Now with the start of the LPL route they are in a state of panic and are trying to keep the contract training captains sweet, rather than satisfy the regular crews.
Do you know of any other company where all the UK training captains are not employees?
These are not bad people to work with, quite the opposite infact, but the management must realise that stealing from the poor to pay the rich wont work.
It is unfortunate that such a short sighted approach is being taken to the problems, flights will end up being cancelled and this will not only cost the company revenue but reputation at a time when negative publicity could do a lot of damage.
If BA put an RJ on the Man-LCY route, it would all but finish the VLM operation out of Manchester.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: LGW
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First of all I feel that I have to comment on the fact that a large number of the posts above seem rather xenophobic anti-foreign rants.
I'm sure that all is not well between crew and management, but everybody should remember that this is an airline that has experienced massive scheduled service growth over the last year - and that it was almost to be expected.
As for the post stating that BA could oust VLM just by putting an Avro on LCY-MAN, that is total rubbish. VLM have beaten BA / Cityflyer / Citiexpress off many of the main routes they now operate, simply because their levels of service, reliability and punctuality are consistantly higher than those of the competition. And BA would certainly not be able to match VLM's 8x daily frequency.
I'm sure VLM are not perfect - but certainly a lot better run than many other airlines I know.
I'm sure that all is not well between crew and management, but everybody should remember that this is an airline that has experienced massive scheduled service growth over the last year - and that it was almost to be expected.
As for the post stating that BA could oust VLM just by putting an Avro on LCY-MAN, that is total rubbish. VLM have beaten BA / Cityflyer / Citiexpress off many of the main routes they now operate, simply because their levels of service, reliability and punctuality are consistantly higher than those of the competition. And BA would certainly not be able to match VLM's 8x daily frequency.
I'm sure VLM are not perfect - but certainly a lot better run than many other airlines I know.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: South of the River
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the opinion of a very humble City Controller:
If every BA was a VLM the world would be a much happier, less stressful place.
VLM is City's favourite airline (ask anyone in the Tower - you would get 100% unanimity on this point), long may they continue!
Whatever they get paid, it probably isn't enough for their splendid display of airmanship, day in day out.
Keep it up VLM!
If every BA was a VLM the world would be a much happier, less stressful place.
VLM is City's favourite airline (ask anyone in the Tower - you would get 100% unanimity on this point), long may they continue!
Whatever they get paid, it probably isn't enough for their splendid display of airmanship, day in day out.
Keep it up VLM!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VLM to Add More Routes from Liverpool?
BBC are reporting the following:
VLM pledges more routes
The Belgian airline VLM says it's hoping to add more routes from Liverpool John Lennon Airport.
The company which is starting a link to London City Airport at the end of this month says it has been encouraged by the number of advance bookings.
The airline has been unveiling its new livery and is naming one of its aircraft after the city of Liverpool.
VLM UK manager Titus Johnson says they are now keen to develop more services out of Liverpool.
VLM pledges more routes
The Belgian airline VLM says it's hoping to add more routes from Liverpool John Lennon Airport.
The company which is starting a link to London City Airport at the end of this month says it has been encouraged by the number of advance bookings.
The airline has been unveiling its new livery and is naming one of its aircraft after the city of Liverpool.
VLM UK manager Titus Johnson says they are now keen to develop more services out of Liverpool.
The story of the 'City Of Liverpool'-twins
'City Of Liverpool' was late coming out of C-check,
so 'City Of Rotterdam' was temporarily renamed 'City Of Liverpool'.
When the 'real Liverpool' was finished, they rushed to the party only to figure out there was a '(twin) brother' already there.
'City Of Liverpool' was late coming out of C-check,
so 'City Of Rotterdam' was temporarily renamed 'City Of Liverpool'.
When the 'real Liverpool' was finished, they rushed to the party only to figure out there was a '(twin) brother' already there.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Manchester
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Breaking clouds 'When the 'real Liverpool' was finished, they rushed to the party only to figure out there was a '(twin) brother' already there'.
Oh dear, what spin!
The reality was that VLM knew what they were doing, what a surprise. They had been advised there might have been a delay on the new liveried aircraft registration for UK use from the Belgian authorities, so given it was a big PR event in the region they actually had a contingency plan which was to have a second aircraft on standby for the event, Given the registration came through in time for the photoshoot, its given someone the unique opportunity to photo two aircraft named City of Liverpool lined up together - has anyone got the shot? Good contingency planning rather than the surprise made out by Breaking Clouds
Oh dear, what spin!
The reality was that VLM knew what they were doing, what a surprise. They had been advised there might have been a delay on the new liveried aircraft registration for UK use from the Belgian authorities, so given it was a big PR event in the region they actually had a contingency plan which was to have a second aircraft on standby for the event, Given the registration came through in time for the photoshoot, its given someone the unique opportunity to photo two aircraft named City of Liverpool lined up together - has anyone got the shot? Good contingency planning rather than the surprise made out by Breaking Clouds
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: belfast
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And the real good news is that the route will start on time...
Apparently on "d" day, there will be two sets of everything just incase of any balls ups. A recent management brief let it out that they will have two complete crews, cabin,a spare aircraft and even a complete set of actors playing the part of pax just incase any of the real ones get mugged on the way to the aircraft!
The a/c will leave on schedule, even if it has to be pushed into a hangar and hidden, then three hours later rolled out to the chearing masses where the drugged up pax will be allowed off.
Seriously, the company is type rating a few new guys and they have plenty of other type rated people coming forward now the pay issues have been solved.
Basically,VLM has now overtaken Air Wales on the salary scales and a local source reported being on "jet salaries"
Good luck to them, nice to see they are doing well enough to splash some money about locally.
Stand by for more beavor..
Apparently on "d" day, there will be two sets of everything just incase of any balls ups. A recent management brief let it out that they will have two complete crews, cabin,a spare aircraft and even a complete set of actors playing the part of pax just incase any of the real ones get mugged on the way to the aircraft!
The a/c will leave on schedule, even if it has to be pushed into a hangar and hidden, then three hours later rolled out to the chearing masses where the drugged up pax will be allowed off.
Seriously, the company is type rating a few new guys and they have plenty of other type rated people coming forward now the pay issues have been solved.
Basically,VLM has now overtaken Air Wales on the salary scales and a local source reported being on "jet salaries"
Good luck to them, nice to see they are doing well enough to splash some money about locally.
Stand by for more beavor..
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not being involved with the airline I cannot comment about any internal issues however from my perspective as a passenger I have found VLM to be an outstanding little airline. I have recently flown LCY-MAN and LCY-RTM and both times been very impressed by the service and professionalism of the crew.
Looking forward to many more flights with VLM.
Looking forward to many more flights with VLM.
