JET2 Where2 next??
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I just had a look at FLYBE,s loads over the last few days on the LBA-BHD route and they aint too impressive,most flights with 40-50 seats empty.I think JET2 are seriously hurting them on this one......................................................... .....................................
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Glynn, if its not a rude question, how do you have access to Flybe's load information? - do you have access to Jet2's? - if so, are they any better? - doubtful considering they're still actively flogging seats at £1 - anyway LBA is not a high yield route - certainly not high enough for 2 carriers!
Last edited by ALLMCC; 14th Jan 2004 at 00:12.
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ALLMCC I always have full access to FLYBE because,unlike yourself,I work in the industry and FLYBE are a full AMADEUS participant so that means each airline who subscribes to the system have access to each others seatmaps for interlining etc.At flight closeout any seats not taken are released back into the system so they will show as:a: meaning available.But with 3.95 million pax in 2003 at BIA versus 1.9 at BHD I would think that BHD has more :a: seats,dont you.I hope youre not confused by airline terminology,If you like i.ll draw it for you with crayons<coloured of course>..................................................... ......
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Glynn- Kayes
Thanks for your response although the sarcasm wasn't really necessary - the point I was trying to make was that on weekdays there are now technically over 1000 seats available between Belfast & Leeds - in other words supply vastly exceeds demand - as you say I don't work in the industry but someone who does (in the travel agency trade) tended to agree with me when I discussed with him - in the end there simply isn't enough demand to support 2 carriers in the long term.
Thanks for your response although the sarcasm wasn't really necessary - the point I was trying to make was that on weekdays there are now technically over 1000 seats available between Belfast & Leeds - in other words supply vastly exceeds demand - as you say I don't work in the industry but someone who does (in the travel agency trade) tended to agree with me when I discussed with him - in the end there simply isn't enough demand to support 2 carriers in the long term.
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ALLMCC, with respect;
1) you can't possibly know what the level of demand is between LBA and the Belfast airports unless you've access to some sort of expensive market research analysis. To say that "supply vastly exceeds demand" is a bit presumptious
2) in the long term, what makes you think the LBA - BHD/BFS market will be any different to the NCL-BHD/BFS or BRS-BHD/BFS markets? Both these airports seem to support links to both Belfast airports and have catchment areas that are quite similar to LBA
Maybe a sensible approach for someone who doesn't work in the industry is to reserve any sort of comment until the routes have had chance to settle down and we see a more normal trading pattern begin to emerge?
loco
1) you can't possibly know what the level of demand is between LBA and the Belfast airports unless you've access to some sort of expensive market research analysis. To say that "supply vastly exceeds demand" is a bit presumptious
2) in the long term, what makes you think the LBA - BHD/BFS market will be any different to the NCL-BHD/BFS or BRS-BHD/BFS markets? Both these airports seem to support links to both Belfast airports and have catchment areas that are quite similar to LBA
Maybe a sensible approach for someone who doesn't work in the industry is to reserve any sort of comment until the routes have had chance to settle down and we see a more normal trading pattern begin to emerge?
loco
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Going loco
Accept what you say - however, in his post Glynn Kayes quoted Flybe's poor loads and tactfully made no comment about Jet2's - where there are 2 carriers involved surely it is foolhardy to assume that one is seriously hurting the other without the benefit of figures to support this? - a classic case of misinformation!
In Jet2's initial blaze of publicity when the route commenced in November last, the "introductory" £1 fare was to last until the end of that month - we are now midway through January and the fare is still being offered - a sure sign that Jet 2 are far from making the killing they (and others) predicted - also their summer schedule shows no increase in frequency despite forecasts from some that it would double!
Perhaps it is too early to make a definitive judgement but I believe that in the long term Flybe will be the winners in this battle!
Accept what you say - however, in his post Glynn Kayes quoted Flybe's poor loads and tactfully made no comment about Jet2's - where there are 2 carriers involved surely it is foolhardy to assume that one is seriously hurting the other without the benefit of figures to support this? - a classic case of misinformation!
In Jet2's initial blaze of publicity when the route commenced in November last, the "introductory" £1 fare was to last until the end of that month - we are now midway through January and the fare is still being offered - a sure sign that Jet 2 are far from making the killing they (and others) predicted - also their summer schedule shows no increase in frequency despite forecasts from some that it would double!
Perhaps it is too early to make a definitive judgement but I believe that in the long term Flybe will be the winners in this battle!
Last edited by ALLMCC; 15th Jan 2004 at 21:44.
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ALLMCC
But isnt Flybe the established carrier, with I presume, an established customer base and Jet2 being the "new boy on the block", the introductory pricing is surely to generate traffic for future pax?
And I for one took advantage of the new service, 1st class from booking in to arrival and if they had'nt of been offering the offer then i'm sure I would of gone elsewhere, so its hats off to Jet2.
I wish both Jet2 & Flybe all the luck
But isnt Flybe the established carrier, with I presume, an established customer base and Jet2 being the "new boy on the block", the introductory pricing is surely to generate traffic for future pax?
And I for one took advantage of the new service, 1st class from booking in to arrival and if they had'nt of been offering the offer then i'm sure I would of gone elsewhere, so its hats off to Jet2.
I wish both Jet2 & Flybe all the luck
Join Date: Oct 2003
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ATTN KAT OO
Noticed your posts regarding Jet2 a/c on ground alot at LBA, you've obiousley passed the airport at the wrong times,
The following is an example of a typical Thursday schedule at LBA for Jet2:
0625 LBA-ALC returning at 1250
0650 LBA-GVA returning at 1130
0700 LBA-AMS returning at 1030
0715 LBA-BFS returning at 0935
0910 LBA-FAO returning at 1610
1200 LBA-PRG returning at 1655
1255 LBA-BCN returning at 1930
1330 LBA-AGP returning at 2010
1820 LBA-AMS returning at 2130
1830 LBA-BFS returning at 2050
That is a normal Thursday for Jet2 at LBA all their a/c that they have are all operating on Thurs and it's gonna get bussier come 28th March 2004.
Jet2's 6th a/c arrives at LBA early March04 G-CELD
CHEERS!!!
The following is an example of a typical Thursday schedule at LBA for Jet2:
0625 LBA-ALC returning at 1250
0650 LBA-GVA returning at 1130
0700 LBA-AMS returning at 1030
0715 LBA-BFS returning at 0935
0910 LBA-FAO returning at 1610
1200 LBA-PRG returning at 1655
1255 LBA-BCN returning at 1930
1330 LBA-AGP returning at 2010
1820 LBA-AMS returning at 2130
1830 LBA-BFS returning at 2050
That is a normal Thursday for Jet2 at LBA all their a/c that they have are all operating on Thurs and it's gonna get bussier come 28th March 2004.
Jet2's 6th a/c arrives at LBA early March04 G-CELD
CHEERS!!!
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I think we need to appreciate that Jet2 are trying to establish themselves on the LBABFS route and it is inevitable that loads on Flybe's flights will drop following the introduction of Jet2's new services.
Travellers are going to want to try the new service to establish it's benefits over Flybe's. I think that due to this it would be too early to start implying that Flybe loads have dropped off for any other reason than there being a 'new kid on the block'.
I think you also have to weigh in the fact that the majority of Flybe's passengers are not paying £1 for their fares. It is easy to fill an aircraft if you only charge £1 but you need to make it pay over a longer period.
I suggest we wait a few more months before we start to question who is getting the lion share of the business on this route.
Travellers are going to want to try the new service to establish it's benefits over Flybe's. I think that due to this it would be too early to start implying that Flybe loads have dropped off for any other reason than there being a 'new kid on the block'.
I think you also have to weigh in the fact that the majority of Flybe's passengers are not paying £1 for their fares. It is easy to fill an aircraft if you only charge £1 but you need to make it pay over a longer period.
I suggest we wait a few more months before we start to question who is getting the lion share of the business on this route.
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I agree, Flybe's figures have dropped of but only ever so slightly, there is still a big market for the traveler who want to go to Belfast to use the City airport (BHD) such as bussiness travelers, they don't want to the journey from Aldergrove (BFS) into the City,
Jet2 have not affected KLM AMS figures one bit, granted KLM are mostly connecting flts but still, it shows there is a number of people using that route,
I personally think some sort of German route would do quite well out of LBA, but someone mentioned earlier that noone can fly to FRA or MUC coz they're not in the Star Alliance, I'm not sure i can't really comment, but I do know that Jet2 applied for slots to go to FRA and the only they could get was going to make the flt arrive back at LBA at 0030am which obviously for a scheduled carrier is very late,
I'd like to see something like TXL, SXB, DUS, STR it's always possible, I really hope they do very well, coz they havn't half put LBA on the map.
BRGDS
CHEERS!!!!!
Jet2 have not affected KLM AMS figures one bit, granted KLM are mostly connecting flts but still, it shows there is a number of people using that route,
I personally think some sort of German route would do quite well out of LBA, but someone mentioned earlier that noone can fly to FRA or MUC coz they're not in the Star Alliance, I'm not sure i can't really comment, but I do know that Jet2 applied for slots to go to FRA and the only they could get was going to make the flt arrive back at LBA at 0030am which obviously for a scheduled carrier is very late,
I'd like to see something like TXL, SXB, DUS, STR it's always possible, I really hope they do very well, coz they havn't half put LBA on the map.
BRGDS
CHEERS!!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Speaking purely as a selfish individual I would like Jet2 to fly to Rome.Last time I flew there it was on a day trip.Much cheaper if it was £1 or taxes only.Then I could afford to buy an icecream at the Trevi Fountain.
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Rumours have to start somewhere otherwise there would be no need for this forum.I hope that it is true and that Jet2 can get the required slots.I think Rome would be a better prospect than Bergamo.
Fingers crossed.
Fingers crossed.
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YEAH
Milan Bergamo was a bit of a droop, they filled most of the flights really, but I suppose if they're giving the tickets away they won't make money,
I have to admit, it makes me giggle when Low cost airlines decide to operate to airports 2hrs out of city, such as Milan Bergamo, its about 1hr from Milan, also where ryanair go, Frakfurt HAHN, what a joke that one is, and this is no word of a lie, I flew with Ryanai to PARIS Beuvaise or how ever you spell it, it took me 3 and half hrs to get into the centre of Paris on public Transport,
You know why they do it, its because they probably land for free or at a great discount, but peaople still fly to these places, it hasn't really put too many off there is obviously still a market.
CHEERS!!!!!!!
I have to admit, it makes me giggle when Low cost airlines decide to operate to airports 2hrs out of city, such as Milan Bergamo, its about 1hr from Milan, also where ryanair go, Frakfurt HAHN, what a joke that one is, and this is no word of a lie, I flew with Ryanai to PARIS Beuvaise or how ever you spell it, it took me 3 and half hrs to get into the centre of Paris on public Transport,
You know why they do it, its because they probably land for free or at a great discount, but peaople still fly to these places, it hasn't really put too many off there is obviously still a market.
CHEERS!!!!!!!
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I wouldn't be too surprised if JET2 looked at Lisbon - due to two reasons, a good city break destination that is underserved by low cost carriers, or main line carriers from the north. In addition, there will be great demand this year due to the Euro 2004 football event.
Naples would also be a good choice if they were to look at Italy, further south than the usual Italian routes and would attract the Amalfi coast brigade.
Personally, I'm hoping for Frankfurt and Budapest - although the latter is fairly unlikely.
Naples would also be a good choice if they were to look at Italy, further south than the usual Italian routes and would attract the Amalfi coast brigade.
Personally, I'm hoping for Frankfurt and Budapest - although the latter is fairly unlikely.
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To the best of my knowledge, JET2 have already looked at Lisbon (not public though, obviously) I guess they'll have to anounce it shortly if they're thinking of the football. Wether or not Lisbon would work after the football, I'm not sure.
I do know that the airline is frantically looking for new destinations and i'm sure more will be anounced soon.
from YORKSHIRE
the place to be is the City of Leeds.
I do know that the airline is frantically looking for new destinations and i'm sure more will be anounced soon.
from YORKSHIRE
the place to be is the City of Leeds.