NOW or never
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I'm saying nothing...until the 27th.
Anyone think it might be a good idea to update the website to at least encourage people to re-visit to book seats when (or if) they come available.
Anyone think it might be a good idea to update the website to at least encourage people to re-visit to book seats when (or if) they come available.
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I was in the FLS hangar only a couple of nights ago and yes, there were 3 ex-Go 737's in there.
It resembled a Go graveyard, these fine beasts, still resplendent in full Go liveries, and all I must say in many, many parts on the hangar floor.
Didn't look as though they were going anywhere soon!
It resembled a Go graveyard, these fine beasts, still resplendent in full Go liveries, and all I must say in many, many parts on the hangar floor.
Didn't look as though they were going anywhere soon!
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jmc-man it could be that NOW plan to launch themselves through the national press once the AOC has been issued, that way, a huge amount of people will know about them all at once !!
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Tenminutes,
No, far more likely that they still don't have full financing, and that the balance of the financing is contingent on getting an AOC and the limited funds they have is focused on getting an aircraft to do their proving flight, and that they are in an ever decreasing circle of timing, funds, booking and start-up. So theres no money for website, publicity and all the other stuff at the moment.
Still....proving flight tomorrow, right?
No, far more likely that they still don't have full financing, and that the balance of the financing is contingent on getting an AOC and the limited funds they have is focused on getting an aircraft to do their proving flight, and that they are in an ever decreasing circle of timing, funds, booking and start-up. So theres no money for website, publicity and all the other stuff at the moment.
Still....proving flight tomorrow, right?
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Mr jmc man, since you seem to know about these things could you explain how the finance for an AOC should actually happen?
As I understand it, for an AOC you should have full finance in place for the first three months of operation without revenue.
I.e. Now Airlines could not get an AOC if the finance covered the proving flight only. Contingent finance would therefore not satisfy an AOC.
Elucidate, explain, expand and just please put some of us out of our misery.
As I understand it, for an AOC you should have full finance in place for the first three months of operation without revenue.
I.e. Now Airlines could not get an AOC if the finance covered the proving flight only. Contingent finance would therefore not satisfy an AOC.
Elucidate, explain, expand and just please put some of us out of our misery.
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Yep, happy to do so.
An AOC is a licence from the CAA to operate aircraft for the purposes of public transport undertaking. It should not be confused with an Operating Licence.
An AOC is issued by the CAA's Safety regulation Group. It certifies that you have the necessary resources and experience to operate aircraft for public transport.
An operating licence is issued by the CAA's Consumer Protection Group (CPG, formerly known as the ERG - Economic Regulation Group).
You can see the difference. One is to do with Safety, the other is to do with Finance.
It is possible to get an AOC prior to getting an Operating Licence, ( although , in the case of NOW, one would be meaningless without the other).
When approaching investors, it is normal for them to set a series of pre-conditions that must be met before they release their investing capital. These conditions are called conditions precedent. As an AOC is an essential part of being an airline, it might well be set as a condition prececent to the investment, namely that that the AOC must be issued before the investor's capital is released to secure the operating licence.
I might suggest that the founders of NOW might have raised , privately, just about sufficient capital to cover the cost of getting their AOC, which, if successful, will mean the remaining capital investment required is forthcoming ( we could be talking about the same day, by the way). If this is the case, it would explain why NOW are not in a position to announce routes, sell tickets, put up check-in desks, update websites, and all the other things that would normally be going on at this time.
When it comes to getting an Operating Licence, by the way, 757 rated , you need to show the CAA CPG that you have sufficient capital to operate for three months ( and they decide which are the three representative months) without income. So, they might well decide that the three representative months, in the case of NOW are the three months from when they have 3 aircraft on the books, rather than just one, or two. Of course, trying to apply the logic of saying that you wouldn't take delivery of number 3 if you had been stuck with 2 for three months with no revenue, doesn't wash in the hallow finance halls of the CPG.
I believe there is more details of the requirements for an AOC and an Operating Licence available on the CAA website, if any of you are particularly interested.
An AOC is a licence from the CAA to operate aircraft for the purposes of public transport undertaking. It should not be confused with an Operating Licence.
An AOC is issued by the CAA's Safety regulation Group. It certifies that you have the necessary resources and experience to operate aircraft for public transport.
An operating licence is issued by the CAA's Consumer Protection Group (CPG, formerly known as the ERG - Economic Regulation Group).
You can see the difference. One is to do with Safety, the other is to do with Finance.
It is possible to get an AOC prior to getting an Operating Licence, ( although , in the case of NOW, one would be meaningless without the other).
When approaching investors, it is normal for them to set a series of pre-conditions that must be met before they release their investing capital. These conditions are called conditions precedent. As an AOC is an essential part of being an airline, it might well be set as a condition prececent to the investment, namely that that the AOC must be issued before the investor's capital is released to secure the operating licence.
I might suggest that the founders of NOW might have raised , privately, just about sufficient capital to cover the cost of getting their AOC, which, if successful, will mean the remaining capital investment required is forthcoming ( we could be talking about the same day, by the way). If this is the case, it would explain why NOW are not in a position to announce routes, sell tickets, put up check-in desks, update websites, and all the other things that would normally be going on at this time.
When it comes to getting an Operating Licence, by the way, 757 rated , you need to show the CAA CPG that you have sufficient capital to operate for three months ( and they decide which are the three representative months) without income. So, they might well decide that the three representative months, in the case of NOW are the three months from when they have 3 aircraft on the books, rather than just one, or two. Of course, trying to apply the logic of saying that you wouldn't take delivery of number 3 if you had been stuck with 2 for three months with no revenue, doesn't wash in the hallow finance halls of the CPG.
I believe there is more details of the requirements for an AOC and an Operating Licence available on the CAA website, if any of you are particularly interested.
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jmc-man useful information thanks, and apparently, there is another website waiting in the wings with all the relevant information for when they are good and ready to launch. The current website is advertising for more staff so I suspect things are on track for NOW.
Today is the day of their CAA proving flight, so how about we wish them well for the future. The future by the way, is not necessarily orange or blue and white
Today is the day of their CAA proving flight, so how about we wish them well for the future. The future by the way, is not necessarily orange or blue and white
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11.30 today, Flight NWX701 to Bordeaux listed on Departures at LTN. Is this the proving flight?. Showing on arrivals at Bordeaux, 14.10 local. Departing back to LTN at 16.00.
Last edited by Powerjet1; 27th Oct 2003 at 13:21.
Good luck to all involved..... 
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Thank you for your explanation jmc man. I didn't appreciate the subtle difference in the finance for an AOC and an Operating Licence.
So, in other words, the grant of an AOC does not automatically mead they will get finance for an Operating Licence? I.e they might still have to rattle the tin to get the airline going albeit on a surer footing than previously.
Out of interest Flight International today had an advertisement for an airline requiring START-UP finance. The ad. specifies that an 'AOC application in place' and a requirement for $8m finance to launch the project. The airline mentions flights to N. America so I guess it is nothing to do with Now Airlines.
However, I have not seen such an ad before. I guess is is a sign of the times that finance is really hard to come by unless you really know what you are doing!
See what transpires after the proving flight.
So, in other words, the grant of an AOC does not automatically mead they will get finance for an Operating Licence? I.e they might still have to rattle the tin to get the airline going albeit on a surer footing than previously.
Out of interest Flight International today had an advertisement for an airline requiring START-UP finance. The ad. specifies that an 'AOC application in place' and a requirement for $8m finance to launch the project. The airline mentions flights to N. America so I guess it is nothing to do with Now Airlines.
However, I have not seen such an ad before. I guess is is a sign of the times that finance is really hard to come by unless you really know what you are doing!
See what transpires after the proving flight.
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757Rated, I suspect they may have somone willing to back them AFTER they have the AOC. The issues with the Operating Licence will depend on how much the CAA CPG deem is the correct amount of capital required, bearing in mind they are planning a start running into the three worst months of the year, namely January, February and March. Bearing mind the average yields available at that time of the year, they would need to be planning on losing in the region of £1M per month. I seem to recall GO's figure for year 1 was in the region of £12M loss, and that was starting in May!
I wish them well today. If the flight is airborne, then there is every chance the AOC is in the bag. the CAA are not prone to carrying out proving flight inspections without some certainty of passing.
With respect to the Ad in Flight it is either another attempt by Blue Fox to get going or this Venture .
I wish them well today. If the flight is airborne, then there is every chance the AOC is in the bag. the CAA are not prone to carrying out proving flight inspections without some certainty of passing.
With respect to the Ad in Flight it is either another attempt by Blue Fox to get going or this Venture .
I don't think the ad in Flight today is Blue Fox - it's not a European airline. I also read somewhere that Blue Fox has appointed a merchant bank to handle its investment, and if this was the case, one would not expect a merchant bank to quote a Flight International box number for replies.
Key points of the ad:
Start-up finance required
New UK-based scheduled European airline
Four key routes identified, single class cabin
Expansion routes to Europe and N America
AOC application in place
$8m is required to launch the project
I strongly suspect this is Now - who else can it be?
Key points of the ad:
Start-up finance required
New UK-based scheduled European airline
Four key routes identified, single class cabin
Expansion routes to Europe and N America
AOC application in place
$8m is required to launch the project
I strongly suspect this is Now - who else can it be?
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I wasn't aware that they were using Titan's aircraft. That would assume that they still don't have access to their own aircraft. The use of another airlines aircraft for the sole purposes of a proving flight is defin ately a first. One must assume that they modified all their manuals to reflect the layout of the Titan Aircraft, that the flight crew completed a Titan OPC to cover the legal (read lease company) requirements, and they still will not get an AOC until such time as they have an aircraft t o put on it. The Titan aircraft can't sit on two AOC's.
In this case, the issue of the AOC will still have to wait until they have their own aircraft.
Bizarre goings on indeed.
The ad could be for NOW, but it's not a very reassuring way to get money in this day and age. Having done a number of presentations to Venture Capital companies in my time, if they say NO, it's difficult as hell to find anyone else to say yes.
In this case, the issue of the AOC will still have to wait until they have their own aircraft.
Bizarre goings on indeed.
The ad could be for NOW, but it's not a very reassuring way to get money in this day and age. Having done a number of presentations to Venture Capital companies in my time, if they say NO, it's difficult as hell to find anyone else to say yes.
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Let me get this straight....
I'm all for welcoming new operators to the UK, it's good news for all of us involved but am I correct in thinking Now Airlines are today gaining their AOC (hopefully!) and only now sourcing the finance to operate (if indeed it is them)....and via the back pages of Flight!!!!!!!
These guys are nothing more than what the CAA term as a "Virtual Airline" i.e. Air Cordial at MAN or Air Foyle as it was at LTN....just an AOC and manuals - nothing more.
Very disapointing....I'm now hoping this advert is not them - some very good guys have moved from the security of EZY to join..
I'm all for welcoming new operators to the UK, it's good news for all of us involved but am I correct in thinking Now Airlines are today gaining their AOC (hopefully!) and only now sourcing the finance to operate (if indeed it is them)....and via the back pages of Flight!!!!!!!
These guys are nothing more than what the CAA term as a "Virtual Airline" i.e. Air Cordial at MAN or Air Foyle as it was at LTN....just an AOC and manuals - nothing more.
Very disapointing....I'm now hoping this advert is not them - some very good guys have moved from the security of EZY to join..