Subsidised Competition

[V1 Rotate]

Having investigated the possibility of having to compete against subsidised first world operators, I was amazed to find an article in the February edition of " Business and Commercial Aviation" all about such a group. The article is about an organisation calling themselves PACTEC who are associated with " Airserve". In the article they make no secret of the fact that they are heavily subsidised and how they operate in the 3rd. World. They say that they are subsidised by USAID and most horrifying of all - All their training is provided free by Flight Safety !
How can African operators compete against this ?
I have personally just made enquiries about going to Flight Safety; with my first officer included it will cost us nearly $30,000.00
I wonder if this kind of competition complies to the various trade treaties to which the US are signatory.
Could African operators go and set up subsidised operations in the US ?
With our own DIY let downs? I very much doubt it.
How many of our fellow pilots are today without work because of this type of unfair competetion ?

V1 Rotate

[B Sousa]

I went to the website www.pactec.org and found it very interesting. Its listed as a non-profit humanitarian organization and registered in the State of California. Nice website that really says nothing..........Sort of smells like one of those Government backed places, as it gives no indication as to where they gather the money...
If they have nice shiny airplanes and all the boys and girls go to FSI, you can bet that they are not living on donations alone.
If you cant beat them, join them, maybe they are hiring.There is a contact email....
Any Thoughts??

[4HolerPoler]

Great post V1-R.

This thread has the potential to throw light on a number of current and recently discussed issues. Enlightened and substantiated input is encouraged. Keep the rhetoric to a minimum and we will have an interesting subject.

4HP

[B Sousa]

The issue here seems to be competition. Are they really operating that many aircraft and do they take away a good amount of business?? Comments.

[Tokoloshe]

Competition

The more aircraft in one area, the smaller one's share of the pie inevitably becomes. It does seem a bit unfair with all the talk in that article re. the subsidised equipment and training. This all the more relevant especially with the recent tussle between Balmoral and AA over the contracts in AFG/PAKI.
The article imho also seems to make out as if they are some sort of pioneers flying in that area under those conditions. Lots of past colleagues will attest that in the pre "Bossman & Spartan" days things were not so rosy. The airstrip at Bamyan was half the length it is now. I wonder if a real-life engine failure out of there would be anything like the FSI deal?? (Those that have been there will know......)
In their defence though, I must admit that when they first started with a C210 flying amongst those rocks, I would not have put folding money on their chances.
At the end of the day I think that the subsidies only end up hurting the pilots that fly for the opposition as the first thing that gets chopped is their salaries in the long run.....

just my two cents worth....

[BadAndy]

PATEC is not one of those "US Gov't" organizations. They are another humaniterian organization similar to AirServ (who is also loosely affiliated with Mission Aviation Fellowship). They have contracts with USAID (among other places) to do the human... stuff. It's all for tax purposes and for political reasons in some of the countries they operate in (it's easier to get permits for a secular NGO than for a Christian relief agency, etc...). I've taken some time and looked into them for quite a while, and they seem to be a straight-forward relief company. They aren't some sinister US "company".

[B Sousa]

BadAndy writes:"They have contracts with USAID"

I think if you check Air America had contracts with USAID in SEA back years ago.........
Maybe wrong, but Maybe right also........

[BadAndy]

I think if you check Air America had contracts with USAID in SEA back years ago.........

Depending on which Air America you mean, that is partly true... Air America in modern times wasn't actually one company, but a group of several companies with CIA contracts. That's why I say partly true. Southern Air Transport was one of those companies. They did a lot of interesting work. But, towards the end, as the US Gov't contracts ran out, they picked up other legit humanitarian contracts from both USAID and the Un to try and stay afloat. Unfortunately it didn't work, and they ultimately folded. So, getting back to your quote, you're right some AA companies did USAID work, that doesn't make the USAID work any part of the CIA conspiracy stuff. Here's a link to USAID... http://www.usaid.gov/regions/afr/


Back to the point of the thread, susidization, the US Gov't isn't subsidizing PACTEC. They just have lower costs than certain local organizations because the crews fly for a little less, the insurance is much cheaper, and because they look at what they are doing as humaniterian rather than a money-making venture. This helps them keep costs down...

[lostcomm]

Well since the USA is providing the aid I think it is logical that they want their companys to benefit from that.I dont think that it is so strange. If some African goverments would be providing the aid I think they would have hired their own companys to deliver it.I don`t know, maybe I`m wrong.

[B Sousa]

LostComm writes:If some African goverments would be providing the aid.

I think if you check with the latest of those in Power in Africa they are too busy lining their own pockets. South Africa included.

[policepilot]

Having seen Air Servs operation 1st hand, they are doing a sterling job. As quoted earlier, if you can't beat them join them. Check out their website. They all know that without government aid, they'd be out of business.

The alternate transport is sitting with soldiers, drums of fuel, bags of coltan and a few pigs and chickens in the back of an Antanov. So you can see the need for a dedicated humanitarian flying organisation.
With the situation in Iraq, a lot of money is being diverted there, so maybe now is the time to get your Otter or Caravan into Africa.

Apart from Air-Serv, the only aircraft one sees in the bundu have UN ensignia on or are Russian. One can't help but feel that this is one method the American government uses to be able to establish itself in a region, although for a 'good course'. The end result perhaps is that the locals become even more dependant on them.

Gunship, haven't seen your comments on this. We wait with anticipation.

[lostcomm]

"The end result perhaps is that the locals become even more dependant on them. "

You think that this is possible.I don`t know.Its just if that food doesn`t get there I think some people would die.And since it is US aid the companys are american. This companys don`t even pay taxes in the US since they are humanitarian.

Oh yeah, the US will realy use humanitarian organizations to establish it self in the region. I think they have one more efficient agency to do that. And this one doesn`t fly MSF around.A little less paranoia wouldn`t hurt.

[B Sousa]

LostComm Writes:"This companys don`t even pay taxes in the US since they are humanitarian.

Oh yeah, the US will realy use humanitarian organizations to establish it self in the region. I think they have one more efficient agency to do that. And this one doesn`t fly MSF around.A little less paranoia wouldn`t hurt."

I fail to see your point. Churches dont pay taxes in the U.S. either, so what.
And whats the sense beating around the bush, What agency is more efficient and what would be there purpose in establishing the U.S. in parts of Africa??

[crack up]

Skylink-Canada
Zemex-Switzerland
Schriner-Holland
to name a few
V1 Rotate, you got alot competition.

[gravitysux]

Lets not forget!!

Whos money is lining the said "Powers pockets" and for what??
Gold, Diamonds, Coltan, infomation(intelligence) and last but NOT LEAST OIL!!!!
Whos guns are being used for the wars and whos paying for them??

Its our money; our TAX money!!!....so before we go slandering the African powers.....

Rant over: goes off to throw himself at the ground and hopes he'll miss....

[4granted]

So what!

Hey Gravity

Chill dude!
Does it really matter if Airserve gets a bit of a hand from some Goverment or MAF or MSF or whoever. At least thery're there doing somthing!

If Humanitairian Aviation wasnt there with aid , who would be???
Just glad they are.
I have been happy to fly for them in the past and hope to fly for them in the future...

Hey and dont hurt yourself jumping in to the ground like that.

4g
p.s.
policepilot in your new defender....gota miss Goma though???? Beats the hell out of Manchesture???

[B Sousa]

Gravitysux writes:Its our money; our TAX money!!!....so before we go slandering the African powers.....

Sorry to get you going but since your so secretive, who is OURS??
Are you in the States the UK or SA??
As to slandering the African Powers, I wouldnt think of slandering the likes of Mr Robert Mugabe, etc, etc.....Im sure hes looking out for his people........

Get a Life dude.......

[policepilot]

Hey 4G, so you worked it out. ILS into Manchester, or the kamakazi 1 alpha into Shabunda. Please choose. I do miss the bush. Expect email soon.

About the comment earlier, was a long day in office and typed what I thought. Apart from the burocracy(sp) the people in those parts are more than relieved to see an Air-Serv plane come in to land. At least no troops hopping out to 'protect' them.

Air Serv (and I'm sure that at some stage one of them will enter this thread) came into being because the various humanitarian agencies felt the need to distance themselves from the other aircraft operators who flew guns in the morning and aid in the afternoon. Hence a pure humanitarian company.
I don't know what the profit margins are etc for humanitarian outfits, but I'm sure its no where near as lucrative as getting a UN contract.
It's a tough job, but someones got to do it.

[gravitysux]

I didnt mean to offend:

I just wanted to make it clear that all the money lining these said "politicians" pockets comes from somewhere??

Mr Mugabe, Mr Dos Santos, Mr Bongo, Mr Ngesso, Mr Kabila (JR. and SNR(rip)), Mr Mobutu(rip), Mr Patase, Mr Geye(rip), Mr Taylor, Mr Gabgo etc etc etc all have their "string pullers" if I cant put it that way.
We all know who said string pullers are so lets leave it at that shall we.
Im of Euro origin ie WHITE. OK: therefore I am a representative of all and any of the above string pullers...
Ive seen war in Angola (first hand) and that cheque was being picked up by????
Ive Flown Presidents and Presidents whores, suitecases with money and suitecases with other things. Ive been bombed by Sukhois and been welcomed by Hinds(friendly). These flights have 99.9% of the time been paid for by some Dipolomatic "slushfund" from some Western country for some favour they want or have got or..you get the idea. These where not fun flights for a vacation (although Nice Cote Azur was nice that time a couple of summer's ago,) but investment flights in the greater Africa. (Mugabe's just been to Paris..mmmm)

So maybe I do go on a bit but hipocracy stinks. Ask Rumsfeld what he was doing in Iraq 10-15 years ago.Yup somthing to do with Chemicals.... It stinks and the its very conveniant to blame it on corruption etc.
Hey mate it suites us. Fly that smoking Gravy plane!

Thanks for the second rant:

Now wheres that hole in the ground I was trying to avoid earlier...

[contraxdog]

Airserv Rule OK

Why dont we look at it like this.
Airserv flies all around the African bush pioneering (Ha ha African pilots have been doing that for many a decade before and will continue to do so after I believe.) aviation in Africa. They do a thankless job for a thankless people, in a continent that still has to discover the meaning of it. They get paid peanuts because they believe in what they are doing, and they believe Africa needs saving, and they will do it, and it will make them feel good about themselves, because they feel guilty about being born into plenty whereas others havent.

Whether we believe the afore mentioned crap or not, at least Airserv gives work to brothers and sisters in aviation, and it gives them the chance to learn to fly in an enviroment that flying was invented for.
I believe they are here for the flying, because that is why they are here. Not because they want to become rich, or because they are good, or because they are samaritans. Once they get the hours or and the break they are outa there. Good for them.
Good on you Airserv, take the load off, hire more pilots, with American taxpayers money, with Church money, with CIA,FBI USAid, OXFAM etc., with any bloody money that gets donated. Do all the flying nobody wants to pay for. Fly plenty!!! Buy more Aircraft.
go gO GO!
AS long as you Hire more pilots!!!
Hire all the available pilots.

The time has come,
the walrus said,
to speak of many things,
of pirate ships,
and sealing wax,
and cabbages and kings.......