FTC Africa
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It's good to get feedback like this about some of these places, particularly as it costs such a lot of money...and you want to make the right choice..... I'm looking at doing my PPL in Port Elizabeth and I've seen from earlier threads that the Algoa Flight Centre is good, but then there is also the Airline Pilot Training Centre. Can anyone shed any good/bad light on either of these??
Join Date: Sep 2002
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haven't really been following this lately, but by reading Vortex's rant, seems to me he has a few personal issues that are further clouding his professional judgement.
This begs the question for me: what constitutes the chip on his shoulder? Perhaps he can enlighten us as to what his actual circumstance is, without resorting to regurgitating old rumours?
I for one, listen to substatiated objective criticisms. I know this is a rumour network, but let's not take the mickey, shall we? Else, how will we believe anything we read on this site?
This begs the question for me: what constitutes the chip on his shoulder? Perhaps he can enlighten us as to what his actual circumstance is, without resorting to regurgitating old rumours?
I for one, listen to substatiated objective criticisms. I know this is a rumour network, but let's not take the mickey, shall we? Else, how will we believe anything we read on this site?
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Centre I can only assume you are either blind or completely ignorant. Have you read all of this post? Do you have the faintest idea what you are on about? THere are past pupils telling you what the place is like and you think you know better!!!!
Look at the wanabees forum and search on the topic of FTC. And this time actually read it before you start muttering. They are a disgrace and I would implore anyone to not go near them. It is all true...rats, no security, broken/few planes, unfinished courses, few JAR instructors.
I can only hope this isn't oscar re surfacing and thinking we are as stupid as he does his customers. If so pack it in now. You do NOT want to get started on another thread. You will lose even more credibility. There is now a fair number of disgruntled ex FTC students. I for one would be willing to look into a campaign to get the JAA approval removed. Do you know they want £1000 to sit JAA exams over there??!!
Would it be possible to move this to wanabees. I feel it has a lot of relevance to that forum?
Look at the wanabees forum and search on the topic of FTC. And this time actually read it before you start muttering. They are a disgrace and I would implore anyone to not go near them. It is all true...rats, no security, broken/few planes, unfinished courses, few JAR instructors.
I can only hope this isn't oscar re surfacing and thinking we are as stupid as he does his customers. If so pack it in now. You do NOT want to get started on another thread. You will lose even more credibility. There is now a fair number of disgruntled ex FTC students. I for one would be willing to look into a campaign to get the JAA approval removed. Do you know they want £1000 to sit JAA exams over there??!!
Would it be possible to move this to wanabees. I feel it has a lot of relevance to that forum?
Join Date: May 2003
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I am new to this site and already sense that everyone seems to have their won agendas.
I have spoken to the UK CAA about FTC in SA. The UK CAA vet all FTC exams so the standard is right up there. The JAR school even use FTC exams.
Also the UK CAA go out for regular inspections and have recently given FTC the ATPL JAR approval. They gave this approval because FTC's planes, instructors, ground courses are all good enough for JAR.
So my advice to everyone is if they want to know something about a school, find out the best way and get hold of objective advice. Pity that pprune doesn't seem to offer any...
I have spoken to the UK CAA about FTC in SA. The UK CAA vet all FTC exams so the standard is right up there. The JAR school even use FTC exams.
Also the UK CAA go out for regular inspections and have recently given FTC the ATPL JAR approval. They gave this approval because FTC's planes, instructors, ground courses are all good enough for JAR.
So my advice to everyone is if they want to know something about a school, find out the best way and get hold of objective advice. Pity that pprune doesn't seem to offer any...
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Wake up & see the con
g-baby it is obvious to all that you are a close friend of the gang or even one of the gang.
FTC is not worth the trip.
They have a limited number of average quality aeroplanes and too many victims needing to use them.
I witnessed the pre-CAA check farce, they were getting everything ready just before the visit. Not necessary if they were professional and honest.
The ATPL groundschool lost lessons due to the need of the instructor to do other duties, help get the paperwork and other areas, 'up to CAA scratch', prior to a visit.
The CAA only visit once a year for a short period of time & require FTC to pay for them, so there are no spot checks & the gang can cover up on each inspection.
One of the directors allegedly has friends in the CAA and it was felt amongst all there that a visit could be easily manipulated.
CAA do a spot check & really find out what they are like, or even better give the second SA approval to 43school, so we can all go to a good school, but still in SA.
FTC is not worth the trip.
They have a limited number of average quality aeroplanes and too many victims needing to use them.
I witnessed the pre-CAA check farce, they were getting everything ready just before the visit. Not necessary if they were professional and honest.
The ATPL groundschool lost lessons due to the need of the instructor to do other duties, help get the paperwork and other areas, 'up to CAA scratch', prior to a visit.
The CAA only visit once a year for a short period of time & require FTC to pay for them, so there are no spot checks & the gang can cover up on each inspection.
One of the directors allegedly has friends in the CAA and it was felt amongst all there that a visit could be easily manipulated.
CAA do a spot check & really find out what they are like, or even better give the second SA approval to 43school, so we can all go to a good school, but still in SA.
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I agree with "Flying Boat". As someone who as both flown in SA and worked under contant "review", I can appreciate how it's necessary to get ready for those "royal" visits. And why should FTC or any other organisation be different, UK, US or otherwise?
I look at it like this. If a school is certified and properly registered for a particular type of flight training, then that is just the starting point. Much more reamins to be done in terms of making it a successful and reputable business. We all look to the CAA as the almighty power whos very wish is our command. But where are they when you're constantly kept from soloing or flight testing due to maintenance issues? Where are they when your instructor is unable to fly due to some daft internal politics? Where are they when there are discrepensies on your account? I say issues rather than problems, since the latter would require CAA attention, the former is an operational concern. Customer service is essentialy what keeps organisations in business, believe it or not!
So when we hear of the likes of FTC and its shortcomings, it is likely to be something that would affect you as a customer first and pilot second. Don't be frightened to think in terms of value for money and to be critical of what you are getting out of it. Therefore, take the advice of customers, past and present, first, then the CAA second. And yes, it is important to have forums like these in PPRUNE so that people can share their experiences.
So, if the experiences in here are anything to go by, stay clear of FTC!
I look at it like this. If a school is certified and properly registered for a particular type of flight training, then that is just the starting point. Much more reamins to be done in terms of making it a successful and reputable business. We all look to the CAA as the almighty power whos very wish is our command. But where are they when you're constantly kept from soloing or flight testing due to maintenance issues? Where are they when your instructor is unable to fly due to some daft internal politics? Where are they when there are discrepensies on your account? I say issues rather than problems, since the latter would require CAA attention, the former is an operational concern. Customer service is essentialy what keeps organisations in business, believe it or not!
So when we hear of the likes of FTC and its shortcomings, it is likely to be something that would affect you as a customer first and pilot second. Don't be frightened to think in terms of value for money and to be critical of what you are getting out of it. Therefore, take the advice of customers, past and present, first, then the CAA second. And yes, it is important to have forums like these in PPRUNE so that people can share their experiences.
So, if the experiences in here are anything to go by, stay clear of FTC!
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Not very well said df1, or is that daft one?
One gets objective and correct information from the CAA. One does not get correct information from pprune.
Most people have their own agendas for posting on pprune. Many people reading pprune don't realise this and cannot give comments rightful weighting.
We all should know that many of the postings come from flying schools trying to snub the competition. This and many other reasons for people posting create a subjective and harmful environment.
Even some of the well intentioned posting are factually incorrect! So, daft one, to choose pprune as your source of information is indeed, daft.
For objectivity go to the CAA! For misinformation come to pprune.
I have gone back in the forums to read the posting by Flying Boat. You certainly have a chip on your shoulder!!
I am disheartened that what has/had the potential to become an excellent forum has been hijacked by people such as yourself...
Your original gripe about a couple of things has now turned in a crusade. From accusing FTC of a few things you are now saying that everything they do is bad!! I see a gaping hole where there should be rationality!! I can't wait to go through all the rest of your forum's and see what other gems you have given...
The problem with lying, Flying Boat, is that you have to do it very, very well or not at all. Hiding behind a forum, has made you overly verbous but not clever...Don't mistake the two...
One gets objective and correct information from the CAA. One does not get correct information from pprune.
Most people have their own agendas for posting on pprune. Many people reading pprune don't realise this and cannot give comments rightful weighting.
We all should know that many of the postings come from flying schools trying to snub the competition. This and many other reasons for people posting create a subjective and harmful environment.
Even some of the well intentioned posting are factually incorrect! So, daft one, to choose pprune as your source of information is indeed, daft.
For objectivity go to the CAA! For misinformation come to pprune.
I have gone back in the forums to read the posting by Flying Boat. You certainly have a chip on your shoulder!!
I am disheartened that what has/had the potential to become an excellent forum has been hijacked by people such as yourself...
Your original gripe about a couple of things has now turned in a crusade. From accusing FTC of a few things you are now saying that everything they do is bad!! I see a gaping hole where there should be rationality!! I can't wait to go through all the rest of your forum's and see what other gems you have given...
The problem with lying, Flying Boat, is that you have to do it very, very well or not at all. Hiding behind a forum, has made you overly verbous but not clever...Don't mistake the two...
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Not lying just warning prospective victims to beware, if you really read my postings you will see that I have not hijacked this forum and I have said to others it is eventually up to them to decide.
Your accusations of lying show all reading that you are a member of the FTC gang.
I still say the flying side of FTC was your better side and it was others that mentioned the problems of the flying, I then added my views.
It is not a crusade (not a politically correct term to use today), just observations.
When I first posted I said give you 2 years to improve, info from other postings hint that it may need 3.
Go & have a ciggy & calm down.
Improve & I'll shut up.
............................................................ ...........................................
I can't be bothered to carry on with this old arguement being revisited over & over again, I am now going to read with interest but only reply if absolutely necessary. I've now got better things to do than play Cowboys & Indians with FTC.
g-babe, u & oscar quit & I will, unless I hear of new horrors.
Your accusations of lying show all reading that you are a member of the FTC gang.
I still say the flying side of FTC was your better side and it was others that mentioned the problems of the flying, I then added my views.
It is not a crusade (not a politically correct term to use today), just observations.
When I first posted I said give you 2 years to improve, info from other postings hint that it may need 3.
Go & have a ciggy & calm down.
Improve & I'll shut up.
............................................................ ...........................................
I can't be bothered to carry on with this old arguement being revisited over & over again, I am now going to read with interest but only reply if absolutely necessary. I've now got better things to do than play Cowboys & Indians with FTC.
g-babe, u & oscar quit & I will, unless I hear of new horrors.
Last edited by Flying Boat; 20th May 2003 at 22:14.
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The argument, Flying Boat, is not about FTC, it is about objectivity and lack of it on your part.
I am not FTC, I don't smoke and I am perfectly calm about this. I have noticed that your ablitity to recall events seems to have fallen behind even your sense of logic. Please be more objective about things in future.
You see, Flying Boat, you may be a irrational, petty, generally unpleasant person. Throwing accusations around anonymously doesn't mean anything to me because I can't put them in context - I don't know the person saying them.
My point is help me and others by getting less personal about things.
I am not FTC, I don't smoke and I am perfectly calm about this. I have noticed that your ablitity to recall events seems to have fallen behind even your sense of logic. Please be more objective about things in future.
You see, Flying Boat, you may be a irrational, petty, generally unpleasant person. Throwing accusations around anonymously doesn't mean anything to me because I can't put them in context - I don't know the person saying them.
My point is help me and others by getting less personal about things.
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G baby
I see the rationale of your argument, unfortunately it really does fall down here. There are a lot of ex FTC customers out there who are not happy with their experience. THey may not all log on here, however those that do I believe are providing accurate, fair advice. FB was mucked around to a disgraceful extent, is it possible to share it here FB?
The point is that had I known about them I would not have gone and wasted thousands of pounds on what really is run like a nursery school, not a commercial flight training centre.The only reason I and many stay is that we have just flown for 12 hours. Believe me I saw some turn round and go back same day.
These forums are here to provide information to others in our situation, ie pursuing a career of our dreams at enormous expense. They are here to help and guide each other through the minefield that is aviation. I will therefore not apologise for speaking the truth about them. If these postings stop one person from going through what we all did then I feel the time is worth it. Remember we are all busy. If it wasn't something we feel adamant about we would have given up months ago. I hope other forum ites will back me up on this.
cheers
SK8
I see the rationale of your argument, unfortunately it really does fall down here. There are a lot of ex FTC customers out there who are not happy with their experience. THey may not all log on here, however those that do I believe are providing accurate, fair advice. FB was mucked around to a disgraceful extent, is it possible to share it here FB?
The point is that had I known about them I would not have gone and wasted thousands of pounds on what really is run like a nursery school, not a commercial flight training centre.The only reason I and many stay is that we have just flown for 12 hours. Believe me I saw some turn round and go back same day.
These forums are here to provide information to others in our situation, ie pursuing a career of our dreams at enormous expense. They are here to help and guide each other through the minefield that is aviation. I will therefore not apologise for speaking the truth about them. If these postings stop one person from going through what we all did then I feel the time is worth it. Remember we are all busy. If it wasn't something we feel adamant about we would have given up months ago. I hope other forum ites will back me up on this.
cheers
SK8
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g-babe & oscar
I do think that you are involved with FTC as you register then only post on this one issue and you talk very unlike any PPL I have ever met. Would it not be a better idea to admit your identity and then you denials might be taken more seriously.
I do think that you are involved with FTC as you register then only post on this one issue and you talk very unlike any PPL I have ever met. Would it not be a better idea to admit your identity and then you denials might be taken more seriously.
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This is one thread I have followed with some interest if only because it must be one of the longest on record. Any comments PPRUNE!
There is clearly a nucleus of contributors here who have been to FTC and experienced a level of customer service that they feel is short of their expectations. Add to that a variety of difficulties that any flight school can suffer and what you end up with is a PR nightmare for the school and a disgruntled student.
Much of what has been written here is fact though sadly expressed sometimes too emotionally. That is not the fault of the writer concerned. When one is aggrieved at poor service, emotions can often hinder what one has to say and that's ok, because we are human.
It may serve to help potential students of FTC to separate the training at FTC from the customer service. Rememeber that the UK CAA essentially does not concern itself with the latter. It's primary responsibilty is to ensure that standards and safety requirements are upheld. If the training is let down by poor service and other matters relating to accomadation that does not fall within the remit of the two responsibilites just mentioned, then that is not of any issue to the UK CAA.
Clearly, FTC has vast, vast work to do to repair the damge done by lack lustre service and all the other problems that you the reader have already read about. If it does not do this very soon then let's be clear about this; its future hangs in the balance.
I worked in customer service for many years and I one thing I learnt from that was this; people are suprisingly accomadating when problems occur as long as you tell them straight away. Moreover, do not waffle and try to cover up or side track your customers, they are not children. Finally, offer a real solutuon to the situation promptly and carry it out. This is not rocket science, its what your customers want and have a right to expect. Especially if they've come 6000 miles to part with their hard earned cash.
Folks, keep to the facts so that those reading this can know the truth. If you have had a bad experience that try to tell it warts and all and (knowing that you feel bad and that's ok) try to keep polite.
There is clearly a nucleus of contributors here who have been to FTC and experienced a level of customer service that they feel is short of their expectations. Add to that a variety of difficulties that any flight school can suffer and what you end up with is a PR nightmare for the school and a disgruntled student.
Much of what has been written here is fact though sadly expressed sometimes too emotionally. That is not the fault of the writer concerned. When one is aggrieved at poor service, emotions can often hinder what one has to say and that's ok, because we are human.
It may serve to help potential students of FTC to separate the training at FTC from the customer service. Rememeber that the UK CAA essentially does not concern itself with the latter. It's primary responsibilty is to ensure that standards and safety requirements are upheld. If the training is let down by poor service and other matters relating to accomadation that does not fall within the remit of the two responsibilites just mentioned, then that is not of any issue to the UK CAA.
Clearly, FTC has vast, vast work to do to repair the damge done by lack lustre service and all the other problems that you the reader have already read about. If it does not do this very soon then let's be clear about this; its future hangs in the balance.
I worked in customer service for many years and I one thing I learnt from that was this; people are suprisingly accomadating when problems occur as long as you tell them straight away. Moreover, do not waffle and try to cover up or side track your customers, they are not children. Finally, offer a real solutuon to the situation promptly and carry it out. This is not rocket science, its what your customers want and have a right to expect. Especially if they've come 6000 miles to part with their hard earned cash.
Folks, keep to the facts so that those reading this can know the truth. If you have had a bad experience that try to tell it warts and all and (knowing that you feel bad and that's ok) try to keep polite.
