Nigerian Govt Slashes British Airways's flights to Lagos
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With respect to the high fares charged by British Airways and the associated regional imbalance, the airline made an offer of a 20% reduction in the lowest Business class fare between Nigeria and the UK.
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With respect to the high fares charged by British Airways and the associated regional imbalance, the airline made an offer of a 20% reduction in the lowest Business class fare between Nigeria and the UK.
The Nigerian side considered this as insufficient, the Nigerian government is still very concerned about the regional price disparity. We still strongly believe that this regional imbalance should be dismantled. In otherwords, BA should offer the same or similar fares from Nigeria to the UK as is the case in any other Equidistant destination within West Africa.
The Nigerian side considered this as insufficient, the Nigerian government is still very concerned about the regional price disparity. We still strongly believe that this regional imbalance should be dismantled. In otherwords, BA should offer the same or similar fares from Nigeria to the UK as is the case in any other Equidistant destination within West Africa.
Why still adopt this archaic political approach to pricing? Cost of operation in West Africa is not the same as in Europe. Levels of demand in either regions are not the same. Levels of investment are never the same. Neither is per capita income. All these factors affect level of demand and supply, hence pricing.
Wake up Madam Minister to modern economics and not politics of equal measuring. You will kill aviation in Nigeria if you push too hard when these (UK) government people, fooling you now, decide to call your bluff.
Let the market play its role. Make your airlines try to maintain safety and management standards. You will be surprised how well they can do.
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Utter rubbish salesconsult,
With the current outcome the minister is still on track for now...
You must be kidding if you remotely assume that the simplistics of demand, supply, price and income are responsible for the performance of the airlines/ industry. And it's not just infrastructure and a robust yield management either. I'm sure you are aware that it is being skewed by a lot more than direct economic factors. A little research and it will becomes obvious that "latent" direct and indirect aids, grants, subsidies and other protectionist policies that are firmly entrenched in both the UK and USA aviation systems do not allow "purely" market forces to dictate industry outcomes. You probably know why these two took over 7 years to complete their negotiations after BermudaII of 1978.
African countries ( note: not the carriers) just did'nt have the balls, and the right strategy ( hence "blindfolded whimps") to take the foreign competition with equal gusto.
Arik and Air Nigeria appear to be still groping in the dark, but by jove we hope to see them get their act together and kick***! And the only sensible thing the Nigerian government should do is enable them do it rather than cave in to any "forked tongue" entreaties Cameron has concocted on behalf of the empire.
With the current outcome the minister is still on track for now...
You must be kidding if you remotely assume that the simplistics of demand, supply, price and income are responsible for the performance of the airlines/ industry. And it's not just infrastructure and a robust yield management either. I'm sure you are aware that it is being skewed by a lot more than direct economic factors. A little research and it will becomes obvious that "latent" direct and indirect aids, grants, subsidies and other protectionist policies that are firmly entrenched in both the UK and USA aviation systems do not allow "purely" market forces to dictate industry outcomes. You probably know why these two took over 7 years to complete their negotiations after BermudaII of 1978.
African countries ( note: not the carriers) just did'nt have the balls, and the right strategy ( hence "blindfolded whimps") to take the foreign competition with equal gusto.
Arik and Air Nigeria appear to be still groping in the dark, but by jove we hope to see them get their act together and kick***! And the only sensible thing the Nigerian government should do is enable them do it rather than cave in to any "forked tongue" entreaties Cameron has concocted on behalf of the empire.
Last edited by DRPAM007; 16th Nov 2011 at 21:41.
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DRPAM007 you are right and so is SalesCnsult.
On the economics UK and US governments (and others) support their carriers. Yes! However these airlines still compete in the market place and I cannot remember when last any of these governments intervened by pegging fares to what obtains in some other regions. IT IS NEVER THE WAY TO GO.
This Minister has shown some mettle - but my only hope is that it for real. I think SalesConsult is saying that she must know when to draw a line for now and not trust those in the UK delegation. The fares pegging to West Africa regional level will not work and I agree that UK will call Nigeria's bluff on that eventually - watch this space.
If the minister has succeeded in getting ARIK into Heathrow - then what does ARIK do with the gold they struck? Eat it, spend it, sell it or trade with it? The minister has no control. What she can do is to ensure that ARIK and others improve on their management and safety and stop turning blind eye to rubbish operation.
Good management and safe flying environment is all that a Nigerian Carrier requires to compete with whoever.
On the economics UK and US governments (and others) support their carriers. Yes! However these airlines still compete in the market place and I cannot remember when last any of these governments intervened by pegging fares to what obtains in some other regions. IT IS NEVER THE WAY TO GO.
This Minister has shown some mettle - but my only hope is that it for real. I think SalesConsult is saying that she must know when to draw a line for now and not trust those in the UK delegation. The fares pegging to West Africa regional level will not work and I agree that UK will call Nigeria's bluff on that eventually - watch this space.
If the minister has succeeded in getting ARIK into Heathrow - then what does ARIK do with the gold they struck? Eat it, spend it, sell it or trade with it? The minister has no control. What she can do is to ensure that ARIK and others improve on their management and safety and stop turning blind eye to rubbish operation.
Good management and safe flying environment is all that a Nigerian Carrier requires to compete with whoever.
Last edited by ReadyAir; 16th Nov 2011 at 13:26.
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So Minister
why not focus some of that energy of sorting out the shambles that is nigerian aviation, poor management, poor infrastucture, Govt and agencies that see airlines as a way of milking as much money out the system as possible without putting anything back.
Highest aviation fuel in world, cheaper for Arik to fill up at LHR than LOS, duty on aircraft parts etc etc
As for Arik and its new routes, this will mean that instead of 15 pax per day, they will carry 10 per day
why not focus some of that energy of sorting out the shambles that is nigerian aviation, poor management, poor infrastucture, Govt and agencies that see airlines as a way of milking as much money out the system as possible without putting anything back.
Highest aviation fuel in world, cheaper for Arik to fill up at LHR than LOS, duty on aircraft parts etc etc
As for Arik and its new routes, this will mean that instead of 15 pax per day, they will carry 10 per day
So there is a threat to charge BA similar amounts for slots at Lagos as Arik is charged at LHR. This is similar to trying to charge the same for gold coloured tinfoil as is charged for a real gold bar!! For those who have trouble identifying which is which in the analogy above I will give you a clue, the gold bar airport with all the operational and commercial facilities for its passengers is not Murtallah Mohammed.
DRPAM007 your conspiracy theories are hopelessly off the mark. No one forces the Naija people to travel on the foreign airlines when there is a Nigerian airline also on the route, but they do so out of preference and they do so by their thousands. The British Government does not run BA, it was privatised many many years ago.
The most stupid part of the dear Princesses summation is that Nigerian passengers should choose carefully by price. They already do, and they judge it is worth paying the higher fares of the European airlines than to fly on a Nigerian carrier. If the Nigerian people only wanted the low fares then they would be filling Arik and leaving BA with spare capacity, yet Arik flies with low loads.
The Nigerian Government is not fighting with a strong hand of cards. If it kicks BA off the route the passengers will route via Paris, Amsterdam or Frankfurt.
The Princess also mentions that Arik has bought slots for its Abuja to LHR service at commercial rates.......................... so what is the fight about they now know how to get slots!!
DRPAM007 your conspiracy theories are hopelessly off the mark. No one forces the Naija people to travel on the foreign airlines when there is a Nigerian airline also on the route, but they do so out of preference and they do so by their thousands. The British Government does not run BA, it was privatised many many years ago.
The most stupid part of the dear Princesses summation is that Nigerian passengers should choose carefully by price. They already do, and they judge it is worth paying the higher fares of the European airlines than to fly on a Nigerian carrier. If the Nigerian people only wanted the low fares then they would be filling Arik and leaving BA with spare capacity, yet Arik flies with low loads.
The Nigerian Government is not fighting with a strong hand of cards. If it kicks BA off the route the passengers will route via Paris, Amsterdam or Frankfurt.
The Princess also mentions that Arik has bought slots for its Abuja to LHR service at commercial rates.......................... so what is the fight about they now know how to get slots!!
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Worst Case Commercial Outcome for Arik is...
1) Getting slots at LHR at 'commercial rates' so they now HAVE to operate a loss making service with an uncompetitive product with no hope of a return on investment. Just to please the FG and the Princess.
2) BA targetting the only 'Premium Paying Pax' Arik currently have, which is the Nigerian independent trader / businessman who will only pay the entry level Business Class Fare. 20% Discount is on it's way!
As the saying goes...
''be careful what you wish for''
2) BA targetting the only 'Premium Paying Pax' Arik currently have, which is the Nigerian independent trader / businessman who will only pay the entry level Business Class Fare. 20% Discount is on it's way!
As the saying goes...
''be careful what you wish for''
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Wow!
I love it! There was loud moaning about how many people prefer BA over Arik, and the solution is for BA to cut Business Class fares by 20%? Hello? That is predatory pricing, what one airline does to another to drive it out of a market!
If you made BA raise their fares by 20%, that would make sense as a way to make Arik more competitive, by making BA less attractive. How to make Arik more competitive on its own? Hmm, let me get back to you on that one....
Err, how about doing what Concord did, way back when, painting an aircraft in a United Airlines color scheme? (Man, I could be a marketing consultant!) No?
If you made BA raise their fares by 20%, that would make sense as a way to make Arik more competitive, by making BA less attractive. How to make Arik more competitive on its own? Hmm, let me get back to you on that one....
Err, how about doing what Concord did, way back when, painting an aircraft in a United Airlines color scheme? (Man, I could be a marketing consultant!) No?
Business as Usual....
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DRPAM007,
I think the minister just set arik up for failure and has helped BA increase it's market share.
I totally agree with chuks, BA will not only take arik's pax but the cheap fare seekers who patronize RAM, Afriqiyah and all the other bottom feeders. BA will make up for the loss of revenue by the increase in patronage. Will arik fare any better? let's just say this is their shining hour to prove the critics wrong
I think the minister just set arik up for failure and has helped BA increase it's market share.
I totally agree with chuks, BA will not only take arik's pax but the cheap fare seekers who patronize RAM, Afriqiyah and all the other bottom feeders. BA will make up for the loss of revenue by the increase in patronage. Will arik fare any better? let's just say this is their shining hour to prove the critics wrong
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@chuks: Nigerian FG did not force BA to lower fares, BA proposed it themselves as an option so as to prevent their slots from being cut to 3.
Most bilaterals and other air aggreements between the EU/US and African countries are skewed heavily in favor of the western countries. You sign an agreement with African country A, then EU regulatory board bans that country's airlines from flying to EU country E due to safety. WHen the issue is brought up between country A & E, E says, EU regulatory board banned you not us. Similar is the case with Nigeria / UK. You have a bilateral, but now a private entity is jeopardizing that. Perhaps the bilaterals should be more detailed to include which airports etc.
Anyway, the beneficiary will always clamour to maintain the status quo.
Most bilaterals and other air aggreements between the EU/US and African countries are skewed heavily in favor of the western countries. You sign an agreement with African country A, then EU regulatory board bans that country's airlines from flying to EU country E due to safety. WHen the issue is brought up between country A & E, E says, EU regulatory board banned you not us. Similar is the case with Nigeria / UK. You have a bilateral, but now a private entity is jeopardizing that. Perhaps the bilaterals should be more detailed to include which airports etc.
Anyway, the beneficiary will always clamour to maintain the status quo.
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I see this report for unfair trade practices. You can't make it up !
Nigeria fines British Airways, Virgin Atlantic - KTAR.com
Tell them to get stuffed, pull the route and ban Arik from UK, make all the pax travel via anywhere in Europe.
Is the FG having a go at Virgin beacuse it pulled plug on its deal with Virgin Nigeria.
Nigeria fines British Airways, Virgin Atlantic - KTAR.com
Tell them to get stuffed, pull the route and ban Arik from UK, make all the pax travel via anywhere in Europe.
Is the FG having a go at Virgin beacuse it pulled plug on its deal with Virgin Nigeria.
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Nigeria fines British Airways, Virgin Atlantic - KTAR.com
It may be that taking action now is political, rules are rules. All governments play politics with timing and opportunities. This is a good example of what Princess should be focusing on and not playing petty politics that will lead no where.
Whatever proceeds realised from the fine should be used to ensure a safe flying environment and promote good aviation and airline management in Nigeria.
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Count on it!
Any monies flowing to the Nigerian Government are quite sure to be applied to the general welfare of all citizens of Nigeria since graft and corruption there are strictly outlawed. For instance, everyone knows what their Statute 419 forbids; is there any other country in the world where the exact statute outlawing fraud is so widely known? No!
As the cuckoo clock is to Switzerland, so is the outlawing of fraud to Nigeria and I am ready to fight anyone making any slurs against the rightness and probity of the Nigerian authorities. (Not very hard shall I fight them, so that by 'fight' I might mean, 'Buy them a beer,' but you choose your form of combat and I shall choose mine. Beers at 20 paces, Go!)
As the cuckoo clock is to Switzerland, so is the outlawing of fraud to Nigeria and I am ready to fight anyone making any slurs against the rightness and probity of the Nigerian authorities. (Not very hard shall I fight them, so that by 'fight' I might mean, 'Buy them a beer,' but you choose your form of combat and I shall choose mine. Beers at 20 paces, Go!)
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Come on guys, you're not all blind to the big picture. Fact is Africa is not ready for the large scale deregulation and privatisation that the west of foisting on it. Main crux ( among others) : Physical and social infrastructural frameworks are not established. Current path calling for DFI will see Africa economically being sold to the Chinese and the ex-colonists (using Africa looted cash stashed in their banks). More dire for sub- saharan than the hamites, with the exception of South Africa.
Solution:A strong co-ordinated AU, but what they heck! all hands are on deck to see that does not happen, but...
I've always maintained we dont need to re-invent the wheel, just watch the competiton and copy 70% of what they did 30 years ago ( fly America policy, Chatper 11, cabotage and ownership gates) and 30% of what they're doing now ( WAAS, GNSS, ADS-B, blablabla).
The minister may be new and naive, but not for long. If the other African countries are going to sit on their hands or go cowering in their shells,I'm glad Nigeria is not.
I really dont care if Air Nigeria, Arik and all other African carriers are run by crooks and imbeciles. I want to see our Crooks and imbeciles win against the opposing crooks and imbeciles! Simples....
Solution:A strong co-ordinated AU, but what they heck! all hands are on deck to see that does not happen, but...
I've always maintained we dont need to re-invent the wheel, just watch the competiton and copy 70% of what they did 30 years ago ( fly America policy, Chatper 11, cabotage and ownership gates) and 30% of what they're doing now ( WAAS, GNSS, ADS-B, blablabla).
The minister may be new and naive, but not for long. If the other African countries are going to sit on their hands or go cowering in their shells,I'm glad Nigeria is not.
I really dont care if Air Nigeria, Arik and all other African carriers are run by crooks and imbeciles. I want to see our Crooks and imbeciles win against the opposing crooks and imbeciles! Simples....
Last edited by DRPAM007; 18th Nov 2011 at 11:32.
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Hear, hear!
Well, Doctor, I think we can still claim white superiority when it comes to crooked imbecility, at least on the sheer scale of things, although Africa is catching up fast. Julius Malema rocks!
I look back fondly on the year when Sani Abacha decided he needed the oil dollars far more than the Nigerian economy did for boring old stuff to keep local industry creaking along, but in sheer dollar terms my government wastes far, far more than that Nigerian government (one sawed-off, murderous little loon in Michael Jackson signature model sunglasses) could even dream of stealing.
Do you suppose it might be a good idea to just drop the idea of LOS-LHR if the numbers aren't looking good and figure out a way to provide basic air services within Nigeria itself? That's not so glamorous, but it's a lot more important to be able to reach safely someplace inside the country without risking death by luxury bus than it is to get to London; there already are numerous ways to reach London, but how about, for example, Sokoto? I think we both can imagine a way to do that using small turboprop airliners, but it wouldn't be glamorous and there just wouldn't be those big numbers to tack 10% onto so that I just do not see that happening.
Another one, as long as we are dreaming, is something like Australia's Flying Doctor Service to bring health care to isolated communities. That would be a pretty neat thing to do in aviation terms but, again, no big bucks are in it.
Instead it has been a series of semi-serious attempts at setting up Nigerian airlines to compete in a sector they are both unnecessary and incompetent to serve, as proved by the fact that they have all failed or are failing, when that cannot all be down to the wicked colonial masters sticking pins in little wax models of airliners in some London boardroom, can it?
I look back fondly on the year when Sani Abacha decided he needed the oil dollars far more than the Nigerian economy did for boring old stuff to keep local industry creaking along, but in sheer dollar terms my government wastes far, far more than that Nigerian government (one sawed-off, murderous little loon in Michael Jackson signature model sunglasses) could even dream of stealing.
Do you suppose it might be a good idea to just drop the idea of LOS-LHR if the numbers aren't looking good and figure out a way to provide basic air services within Nigeria itself? That's not so glamorous, but it's a lot more important to be able to reach safely someplace inside the country without risking death by luxury bus than it is to get to London; there already are numerous ways to reach London, but how about, for example, Sokoto? I think we both can imagine a way to do that using small turboprop airliners, but it wouldn't be glamorous and there just wouldn't be those big numbers to tack 10% onto so that I just do not see that happening.
Another one, as long as we are dreaming, is something like Australia's Flying Doctor Service to bring health care to isolated communities. That would be a pretty neat thing to do in aviation terms but, again, no big bucks are in it.
Instead it has been a series of semi-serious attempts at setting up Nigerian airlines to compete in a sector they are both unnecessary and incompetent to serve, as proved by the fact that they have all failed or are failing, when that cannot all be down to the wicked colonial masters sticking pins in little wax models of airliners in some London boardroom, can it?
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Nigeria has to have a prestige route air service to London to suit the political and financial elite, it has nothing to do with the normal economics that normal people would consider in setting up and operating a carrier. The so-called 'leaders' of the country don't give a toss about the suffering and the misery within Nigeria and are not interested in alleviating it.
This is the free democratic post-colonial Africa that all the posturing prats like Peter Hain wanted. Isn't it wonderful!
This is the free democratic post-colonial Africa that all the posturing prats like Peter Hain wanted. Isn't it wonderful!
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Nicely said chuks, we might just get our juju and sharmen to practice their mind control acts on these colonialist.
However, you have to wonder why the United kingdom ( and Uncle Sam) still pay their local airlines to fly uneconomical routes e.g. from Dublin to Knock, Galway, Kerry, Sligo, Donegal and City of Derry, locally in the name of PSO (public servie obligation) essential service programmes. had to get congress to pass the "fly America act", as well as defend why the pump cash in Boeing and Northrop grumman in the name of R&D.
Sometimes, it's the arrogance that they can skew the model when it suits them that makes this just laughable. Still the under-dogs need to hone their act up to perfection or it may be a long cold winter of discontent.
However, you have to wonder why the United kingdom ( and Uncle Sam) still pay their local airlines to fly uneconomical routes e.g. from Dublin to Knock, Galway, Kerry, Sligo, Donegal and City of Derry, locally in the name of PSO (public servie obligation) essential service programmes. had to get congress to pass the "fly America act", as well as defend why the pump cash in Boeing and Northrop grumman in the name of R&D.
Sometimes, it's the arrogance that they can skew the model when it suits them that makes this just laughable. Still the under-dogs need to hone their act up to perfection or it may be a long cold winter of discontent.