RJ crash in Kigali?
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I believe similar incidents have occurred on this type, but not both engines simultaneously. I would suspect an AD coming soon if there isn't one already.
This aside from the very poor decision to taxy back onto stand with an engine at full thrust and white-hot brakes. 8000+ pounds of sea level thrust and you want to chock the airplane and see if it holds? Unbelievable and tragic.
This aside from the very poor decision to taxy back onto stand with an engine at full thrust and white-hot brakes. 8000+ pounds of sea level thrust and you want to chock the airplane and see if it holds? Unbelievable and tragic.
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fyresisok , that's pure speculation ! It doesn't say anywhere that the airplane taxied from the runway at full power . In fact , one of the press report said specifically that it taxied to the apron normally . I believe someone would have noticed if it tried to taxi with one Engine at 100 % and the other at idle . It looks like it happened on stand , with the airplane already chocked in . Somehow the left engine when to 100% N1 ( report says the A/C turned to the right before impacting ) , and probably took both pilots by surprise so they didn't have time to react and press the fire handle or maybe even brake . I guess No one would expect an engine to suddenly go to full power uncommanded when just about ready to shut down .
The Question is : Why did it do that ? Auto/Throttle malfunction (if equipped ) , FCU malfunction , EP or accidental application by the pilot (ie uniform sleeve caught on the PL ????) . Hopefully , one of the pilots will remember .
The Question is : Why did it do that ? Auto/Throttle malfunction (if equipped ) , FCU malfunction , EP or accidental application by the pilot (ie uniform sleeve caught on the PL ????) . Hopefully , one of the pilots will remember .
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gets it all the way to the stand, brakes already cooked with left or both engines still at full blast... the rest is history...
Last edited by outofhereoyibo; 14th Nov 2009 at 10:50.
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Hi.
Accident: Jetlink Air CRJ1 at Kigali on Nov 12th 2009, throttle jam, impacted terminal after return
Updated information from a pilot who knows Jetlink crews:
Engines went to full power, uncommanded on takeoff. After takeoff, they shut one down using the emer shutdown procedures (do not know what they are in CRJ). They landed with one engine at full power, and taxied back to parking.
The report above says just before chocked, the airplane started moving (hot brakes couldn't hold plane anymore???). The pilots tried to shut down the engine with emer procedures, but were unsuccessful. Crashed into building, and capt had broken leg, and FO broken ankle, so they are OK.
One pax was taken to the hospital, and died when ambulance crashed. Heard in Kigali that ambulance killed two bystanders.
Kudos to fire crews who put out fire, otherwise would have been a number of casualties.
cliff
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Accident: Jetlink Air CRJ1 at Kigali on Nov 12th 2009, throttle jam, impacted terminal after return
Updated information from a pilot who knows Jetlink crews:
Engines went to full power, uncommanded on takeoff. After takeoff, they shut one down using the emer shutdown procedures (do not know what they are in CRJ). They landed with one engine at full power, and taxied back to parking.
The report above says just before chocked, the airplane started moving (hot brakes couldn't hold plane anymore???). The pilots tried to shut down the engine with emer procedures, but were unsuccessful. Crashed into building, and capt had broken leg, and FO broken ankle, so they are OK.
One pax was taken to the hospital, and died when ambulance crashed. Heard in Kigali that ambulance killed two bystanders.
Kudos to fire crews who put out fire, otherwise would have been a number of casualties.
cliff
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The only way to shut down the engine is to push the ENG. FIRE push button which closes the fuel SOV if you loose throttle control. NO auto throttle on this aircraft. ON the -700 and 900 you have fuel SOV Push buttons you can
use without having to use the ENG. fire button..
use without having to use the ENG. fire button..
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One pax was taken to the hospital, and died when ambulance crashed. Heard in Kigali that ambulance killed two bystanders.
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Engines went to full power, uncommanded on takeoff.
This is electrically activated.
When it senses a lack of thrust on the opposite engine (don't remember the parameters), that's when APR is supposed to kick in.
Fuel controller on CRJ-100, -200 is a cable that could jam, but having two do that at once seems unlikely. I'm guessing APR.
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I thought this happened on the ground. APR will not activate with weight on wheel input (shutdown at the gate). Interesting theory though.
I have heard of the cable to the TL disconnecting. At an inappropriate power setting this could be very interesting.
As for a landing with one shutdown and one at full thrust, I don't think so. Interesting, but I don't think so. If it's true, it's ***kin' amazing.
Willie
I have heard of the cable to the TL disconnecting. At an inappropriate power setting this could be very interesting.
As for a landing with one shutdown and one at full thrust, I don't think so. Interesting, but I don't think so. If it's true, it's ***kin' amazing.
Willie
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APR will not activate with weight on wheel input (shutdown at the gate). Interesting theory though.
My point, of course, is that there was a failure, so clearly, should my theory hold any water, whatever activation parameter(s) would have failed.
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Tony,
To be honest...
I don't believe APR had anything to do with this.
If the crew made it to stand (as reported) with one engine at a fairly high power setting whilst the other remained at or near idle, it begs the question, which engine was most likely to have been shutdown first? My guess is, based purely upon the result, the one with the working thrust lever (doh), which IMHO would seem most probable as the other was jammed or not working properly and to this point in time it hasn't been confirmed that the problem engine had been shutdown. In any event, as some have suggested, why had they not pushed the FIRE push switch on the glareshield (at some point) prior to landing, or prior to entering the apron area? Because of their being WOW, airspeed likely at or near zero, no APR activation would result due to incorrect logic.
Willie
To be honest...
I don't believe APR had anything to do with this.
If the crew made it to stand (as reported) with one engine at a fairly high power setting whilst the other remained at or near idle, it begs the question, which engine was most likely to have been shutdown first? My guess is, based purely upon the result, the one with the working thrust lever (doh), which IMHO would seem most probable as the other was jammed or not working properly and to this point in time it hasn't been confirmed that the problem engine had been shutdown. In any event, as some have suggested, why had they not pushed the FIRE push switch on the glareshield (at some point) prior to landing, or prior to entering the apron area? Because of their being WOW, airspeed likely at or near zero, no APR activation would result due to incorrect logic.
Willie
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Hi.
Update...
Saw the plane yesterday. It is quite destroyed. It resting on the center wing box, as that has completely detached where the front of the box connects to the fuselage.
Heard that Jetlink lost their contract with RwandAir. Heard from two JetLink FAs that the pilots were sacked soon after the accident.
Kenya Airways had a plane full of pax on the ramp at the time. When this accident started, they were worried the JetLink plane would taxi into them, so they deployed their escape slides. Their PAX exited normally, but the plane then had to fly back to NBO empty, to get new slides.
cliff
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Update...
Saw the plane yesterday. It is quite destroyed. It resting on the center wing box, as that has completely detached where the front of the box connects to the fuselage.
Heard that Jetlink lost their contract with RwandAir. Heard from two JetLink FAs that the pilots were sacked soon after the accident.
Kenya Airways had a plane full of pax on the ramp at the time. When this accident started, they were worried the JetLink plane would taxi into them, so they deployed their escape slides. Their PAX exited normally, but the plane then had to fly back to NBO empty, to get new slides.
cliff
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Heard that Jetlink lost their contract with RwandAir. Heard from two JetLink FAs that the pilots were sacked soon after the accident.
Will RwandAir start flying their own airplanes? They are a virtual airline in every sense of the word - they use Jetlink for some CRJs, and another Kenyan operator for their Dash 8s - nothing of their own I believe.
As recently as 2007 they had a 737, and in 2006 they had an MD80. Its high time they got back into their own equipment.
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Banning of aircraft
Its seams that every time there is an incident the CAA in Rwanda bans aircrafts. Heard that B727-100/200,B737-200,MD80 and now CRJs are banned in Rwanda. At this rate soon mybe only the B787 can operate into Kigali.
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Hi!
RwandAir is schd to get 2 737-800s, and later 2 CRJs of their own.
I don't think CRJs are banned, but last time I went in there there were no CRJs, but it was late and not much traffic.
cliff
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RwandAir is schd to get 2 737-800s, and later 2 CRJs of their own.
I don't think CRJs are banned, but last time I went in there there were no CRJs, but it was late and not much traffic.
cliff
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Will RwandAir start flying their own airplanes? They are a virtual airline in every sense of the word - they use Jetlink for some CRJs, and another Kenyan operator for their Dash 8s - nothing of their own I believe.
Now the airline will hire rwandan pilots.
RwandAir is schd to get 2 737-800s, and later 2 CRJs of their own.
Last edited by 9XR-SC; 27th Nov 2009 at 23:12.
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Any plans for Kigali to upgrade its pax terminal? Its massively over-cramped, especially if you happen to be taking a flight at ~ the same time as the Brussels A330 that comes in 4x/week.
Rwanda really does seem to have a vision for the country - I hope it carries over to aviation. They could use something more like EBB.
Rwanda really does seem to have a vision for the country - I hope it carries over to aviation. They could use something more like EBB.
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