B1900 landing on the road at Windhoek
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Elize van Niekerk and Gawie Visser were very keen to lie and point fingers. It was everybody elses fault until they painted themselves into a corner with their own pathetic story. Now suddenly everyone else mustn't sling mud?
The Nam DCA certainly is keen on getting to the bottom of this one. With these things the wheel turns slowly but in the end it will be actioned. It has to be, you can't go around running 8 ton turboprops out of fuel and then pretend it was no big deal.
Their poor knowledge of the regulations meant they didn't know how much fuel they actually needed. They have no idea about planning minima for destination and alternates. Never even heard of a requirement for a second alternate. Clueless as to the functioning of the fuel gauging and low fuel light system.
Bay Air will be lucky to get out of this one with an AOC.
The Nam DCA certainly is keen on getting to the bottom of this one. With these things the wheel turns slowly but in the end it will be actioned. It has to be, you can't go around running 8 ton turboprops out of fuel and then pretend it was no big deal.
Their poor knowledge of the regulations meant they didn't know how much fuel they actually needed. They have no idea about planning minima for destination and alternates. Never even heard of a requirement for a second alternate. Clueless as to the functioning of the fuel gauging and low fuel light system.
Bay Air will be lucky to get out of this one with an AOC.
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You view would be different if they had lied/denied about being at the a different level or position, yet were at the same level or position in a conflicting direction to you and a very near miss occurred or you guys collided.
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Nou Hoe Nou????
HIRE A 1900 CAPTAIN WHILE THEY STILL KNOW EVERYTHING.... i like that very much, pseudo profesionals dispensing advice on pprune but cant read so good on what powersetting the aircraft should be flown, how we BAD BAD dictators in management should run our company's, and pay them professional salaries, can you possibly show your UNIVERSITY DEGREE? like the beencounter screwing you out of your hard earned peanuts....or are you too busy paying for my benz and house in harties?
? how does R 18'000'000.00 yes kids 18 MILLION RAND aeroplane (that is what a 1900 costs,R200'000.00 per month) end up on a public road with 15 pax not sueing for attempted murder? the crew blaming aircraft systems not working, but poor aircraft took 5 litres more to fill than manufacturer claims max usable....the low fuel lights do infact work,put fuel, start engines, fly plane off road, FAAAAA
k,who would have thought that possible with both engines being "troublesome"?????? 
the NAV equipment blamed for the go-around certified in perfect working order on Windhoek frequencies......running out of excuses here....
The crew REFUSED to make SEPERATE statements, still no report / affidavid on what really happened...owner getting pissed....insurance company insisting heads roll for this one...
? how does R 18'000'000.00 yes kids 18 MILLION RAND aeroplane (that is what a 1900 costs,R200'000.00 per month) end up on a public road with 15 pax not sueing for attempted murder? the crew blaming aircraft systems not working, but poor aircraft took 5 litres more to fill than manufacturer claims max usable....the low fuel lights do infact work,put fuel, start engines, fly plane off road, FAAAAA
k,who would have thought that possible with both engines being "troublesome"?????? the NAV equipment blamed for the go-around certified in perfect working order on Windhoek frequencies......running out of excuses here....
The crew REFUSED to make SEPERATE statements, still no report / affidavid on what really happened...owner getting pissed....insurance company insisting heads roll for this one...
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Never been one to patronise then witbeen?
As much as I think they screwed the pooch big time here, your attitude is worse.
Thank god I dont work for you - anymore....
Quick one : what if you have a university degree? Does that make you a better pilot? Besides who says you need one to fly? Never seen it in the POH before. Then again according to you, thats prob because I have never read it, having been a lowly 1900 Capt and all.
That said, being in "management"", you probably havent read a POH (pilot's operating handbook) either.
As much as I think they screwed the pooch big time here, your attitude is worse.
Thank god I dont work for you - anymore....
Quick one : what if you have a university degree? Does that make you a better pilot? Besides who says you need one to fly? Never seen it in the POH before. Then again according to you, thats prob because I have never read it, having been a lowly 1900 Capt and all.
That said, being in "management"", you probably havent read a POH (pilot's operating handbook) either.
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Ohhh you guys do crack me up.
Very silly to run out of fuel if in fact this is true. What happened to a proper preflight. And people wonder why we have so many accidents
Very silly to run out of fuel if in fact this is true. What happened to a proper preflight. And people wonder why we have so many accidents
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Isn't it funny that there seems to be a cover up and Miles van der Molen is involved here as he is the man at Cemair running the show...coincidence??
witbeen: These guys stuffed up big style, but one shouldn't shout the odds unless your own house is clean. With regards to the POH, didn't you crack up a D228 in the DRC a while back while executing a 'check hierdie move' short field landing on a 1000m strip? Apprently you were showing the new guys how the ' groot wit baas' does things. Bet that wasn't in the POH...
witbeen: These guys stuffed up big style, but one shouldn't shout the odds unless your own house is clean. With regards to the POH, didn't you crack up a D228 in the DRC a while back while executing a 'check hierdie move' short field landing on a 1000m strip? Apprently you were showing the new guys how the ' groot wit baas' does things. Bet that wasn't in the POH...
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Township Dog
I refer to the posts stating "The B1900 is owned by Cemair at Lanseria and was on a AI lease to Bay Air" and "Bay Air will be lucky to get out of this one with an AOC". Maybe if you had the ability to read the entire thread, from start to finish, you would realise that you are barking up the wrong tree.
Cemair and Miles have nothing to do with the cover up, their only involvement is the fact that they own the aircraft which it has subsequently been established was in perfect working order. Crew, who are employed by BayAir are the ones covering up.
I refer to the posts stating "The B1900 is owned by Cemair at Lanseria and was on a AI lease to Bay Air" and "Bay Air will be lucky to get out of this one with an AOC". Maybe if you had the ability to read the entire thread, from start to finish, you would realise that you are barking up the wrong tree.
Cemair and Miles have nothing to do with the cover up, their only involvement is the fact that they own the aircraft which it has subsequently been established was in perfect working order. Crew, who are employed by BayAir are the ones covering up.
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Fatflaps: maybe if you had the ability to understand the irony and possible coincidence you would see where i'm coming from. I don't deny that the crew stuffed up and are covering up their mistakes but I do find it funny that this man is somehow involved in the greater scheme of the operation of the aircraft. It would also be in hs favour if CAA didnt look his way however small hs involvement in the a/c is. Afterall he doesn't have the cleanest record in history. Not so long ago a caravan that he was operating had a simlar low fuel event. I'm not creating conspiricy theories here but it is funny...
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Township Dog - before this degenerates into a mudslinging contest, firstly I know exactly where it is you are coming from - ironically enough.
However I can't say I find anything about this incident amusing or even partially funny. It was reckless and life endangering and there is nothing remotely funny about that. To add to that, the fact that there is now deceit and lies speaks volumes about the crew's ethics and moral principles.
The fact remains, the crew took off with 1200 lbs, with no weather check and they failed to call in an emergency and then they lied about it - disgusting and disgraceful.
However I can't say I find anything about this incident amusing or even partially funny. It was reckless and life endangering and there is nothing remotely funny about that. To add to that, the fact that there is now deceit and lies speaks volumes about the crew's ethics and moral principles.
The fact remains, the crew took off with 1200 lbs, with no weather check and they failed to call in an emergency and then they lied about it - disgusting and disgraceful.
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Flaps: agreed, sorry i may have been misleading by using the word 'funny'..i meant weird/strange.
Hopefully the Nam CAA will get to the bottom of this and those accountable will be brought to book
Hopefully the Nam CAA will get to the bottom of this and those accountable will be brought to book
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Sorry to dissapoint T.D., the guy who actually cracked said 228 is today a well respected Saab 340 Captain in west africa, Gabon if i'm not mistaken, so my house is still order, but you are again off the topic, slinging mud, the question remains how did the 1900 end up on a public road???????????
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I beg to differ, the SAAB guy was under instruction from you and you were showing him 'how it's done' That I believe is why Dirk and co asked you to leave A.A.S and you started at Miles/Cemair.
Thats from the horses mouth of both SAAB man and the other FO including James the engineer who were there. Not slinging mud, simply highlighting the age old glass houses and stones fabel in regards to your earlier (mudslinging?) comments about the POH...
Enough said though...this is about them covering up the low fuel state they were in. Aplogies to all for digressing.
Thats from the horses mouth of both SAAB man and the other FO including James the engineer who were there. Not slinging mud, simply highlighting the age old glass houses and stones fabel in regards to your earlier (mudslinging?) comments about the POH...
Enough said though...this is about them covering up the low fuel state they were in. Aplogies to all for digressing.
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Hell no, it was just getting interesting. Doesn't it just suck when facts get in the way of good ol' pprune slander? I happen to know James well and would be delighted to hear his views on your little fantasy.
I wanna see da township dog gettin' a beatin'.
I wanna see da township dog gettin' a beatin'.
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Well now this is getting intriguing....Township Dawg - you seem to know an awful lot about a whole lot of things - albeit not an accurate lot.
I'm sensing though a little bit of a disgruntlement and some deep seated issues coming through from your side. About those people in glass houses throwing stones, two things to remember, firstly when you start make sure you yourself are out of the glass house and second, check that you are aiming at the correct person - you may end up throwing like a girl
I'm sensing though a little bit of a disgruntlement and some deep seated issues coming through from your side. About those people in glass houses throwing stones, two things to remember, firstly when you start make sure you yourself are out of the glass house and second, check that you are aiming at the correct person - you may end up throwing like a girl
Last edited by FatFlaps; 26th Mar 2008 at 12:19.
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Whiner i assure you when you talk to James and ask him about the torque links and other structural repairs he made he'll verify the facts. Ask him about the panels replaced on the right side and the quick spray job done.
Just to make sure we're talking about the same James, it's the guy from Malawi.
I don't know why you think this is not accurate as apart from James the guys who were there were the t-bone/witbeen R vd M and M du P aka SAAB man. Now guess how I know that, maybe just maybe I'm one of them and was there when the stall warning went off and we hit the ground with enough force to break the torque links and ripple the skin.
Maybe I was there when the parts borrowed from P.A's D228 spares were brought up and put on by our friend James. Maybe thats how I knw all of this. But then again maybe not ...
Just to make sure we're talking about the same James, it's the guy from Malawi.
I don't know why you think this is not accurate as apart from James the guys who were there were the t-bone/witbeen R vd M and M du P aka SAAB man. Now guess how I know that, maybe just maybe I'm one of them and was there when the stall warning went off and we hit the ground with enough force to break the torque links and ripple the skin.
Maybe I was there when the parts borrowed from P.A's D228 spares were brought up and put on by our friend James. Maybe thats how I knw all of this. But then again maybe not ...
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Like I said, check the facts with James, or Saab man or R vd M, or perhaps they're there in front of you on the pprune thread written by someone in the cockpit.
This is way off topic now, pm me if you would like to debate this further but those are facts. All I was initially trying to do was highlight the point of people affiliated/used to be affiliated-(not sure what the "witbeen" is up 2 now) to Cemair shouting about POH's when they're not exactly 'mr procedure' and more of a 'ou maat in Wes Afrika ons het so gemaak, nou moenie worrie...watch net...' then promptly bust a good aerie through this attitude. Just like the guy and gal in the 1900 almost did. Thats all.
Dog
This is way off topic now, pm me if you would like to debate this further but those are facts. All I was initially trying to do was highlight the point of people affiliated/used to be affiliated-(not sure what the "witbeen" is up 2 now) to Cemair shouting about POH's when they're not exactly 'mr procedure' and more of a 'ou maat in Wes Afrika ons het so gemaak, nou moenie worrie...watch net...' then promptly bust a good aerie through this attitude. Just like the guy and gal in the 1900 almost did. Thats all.
Dog
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where you get the van ran out of fuel.
Township Puppy.
..
You sure know how to start an avalanche of sh1t....but do you know how to stop it.
..
The Caravan that you claim that ran out of fuel, in fact never happened.
The low fuel light came on in the turn.
The clever pilots over-flew their 1st fuel stop and pushed on to another airfield...(now whose fault is that....the companies...I think not...PILOT ERROR).
They landed with 50 mins in the tanks....now in my books, (and the books I borrowed), that is not running out of fuel.
Now if in fact it was the companies fault, why were the pilot's licences suspended whilst they had to write airlaw and do a flight test.
Why did the same pilots screw up on a couple of other things....Oh I forgot....blame the company...
Nay china, on this you had a clear cut call...PILOT ERROR...these van pilots created a thing called a cluster duck..(and they admit it)...had nothing to do with the company that they screwed up.
Now if you disagree on the above and know something I dont know, please tell.
CEM Air's aircraft are in great condition...and that is fact.
Goffel.
..
You sure know how to start an avalanche of sh1t....but do you know how to stop it.
..
The Caravan that you claim that ran out of fuel, in fact never happened.
The low fuel light came on in the turn.
The clever pilots over-flew their 1st fuel stop and pushed on to another airfield...(now whose fault is that....the companies...I think not...PILOT ERROR).
They landed with 50 mins in the tanks....now in my books, (and the books I borrowed), that is not running out of fuel.
Now if in fact it was the companies fault, why were the pilot's licences suspended whilst they had to write airlaw and do a flight test.
Why did the same pilots screw up on a couple of other things....Oh I forgot....blame the company...
Nay china, on this you had a clear cut call...PILOT ERROR...these van pilots created a thing called a cluster duck..(and they admit it)...had nothing to do with the company that they screwed up.
Now if you disagree on the above and know something I dont know, please tell.
CEM Air's aircraft are in great condition...and that is fact.
Goffel.