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Virgin Nigeria Vs Federal Govt Of Nigeria Et Al

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Virgin Nigeria Vs Federal Govt Of Nigeria Et Al

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Old 8th Feb 2008, 19:09
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I am sorry to ask a stupid question. How on earth is the new terminal going to handle all this airlines if they move there. You should have seen the place during christmas without vk and arik. Have they thought about the disruption this would cause the airlines and the travelling public? Unless I am missing something.
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Old 8th Feb 2008, 21:42
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We Will Soon Find The Missing Link Patience,just A Little More Patience:d
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Old 9th Feb 2008, 11:38
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If things were properly handled,mma2 should be declining a mountain of offers.
van elk has changed his tune hasnt he?first there was no iata report,or iata observation,and now the iata statement relates to design of the terminal and not to safety.
I feel sorry for the poor chap,because he really deserves better from his boss,the proprietor of Bicourtney doesnt he?
The proprietors only problems are his management team who are making a balls up of running his business and van elk isnt getting info on just how badly things are being run when he is not around especially where it concerns his current tenants needs.
Wish him the best though,cos Africa needs this project to succeed.
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Old 9th Feb 2008, 17:07
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There seems little point with wishing the project well etc etc. It was a half baked plan in the first place so why should it turn into a world beating success when it opens.

FAAN and NCAA were well aware of the plan for Lagos to develop as the preferred hub for West Africa, with VK as the prime mover in this plan. So why did they design and build a terminal that is totally unsuited to the task of providing hub facilities in conjunction with MMIA? Not only does it not provide the necessary hub facilities, but it cannot even provide sufficient stands for the domestic operation that existed the day it opened, let alone any growth by moving VK and Arik or other additional airlines!!

To expect transferring pax to pass from airside to landside, catch a local taxi across to MMIA, then go through controls to airside again (and vice versa) is utter lunacy. Aside from the 'Abuja Boot boys' waiting to entice people into illegal taxis, the road system isn't good enough that any reasonable connection time could be guaranteed.

I am also amazed that the company running the Domestic facility feels it can charge more than MMIA, and then insist airlines use it's facility at the higher rates. Who is the MD? Is it Dick Turpin the famous highway robber of olden days?

Methinks that a large dose of self interest lurks somewhere in the background, allied to another dose of 'let's bash VK on the nose'. If AON is really backing this lunacy then they should also be held to account.
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Old 9th Feb 2008, 17:28
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HI SN,
yes we need to turn lagos into a HUB. In the late 70s and early 80s, it did fill this role. FAAn and the NCAA with Govt backing need to go ahead made make this areality. However keeping it for VK alone is not right. Quite a number of airlines had wanted to fill this role and denied the opportunity.
We need to move the nigerian avaition industry forward as whole for ALL operators.
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Old 9th Feb 2008, 18:21
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Jabag,
SN is not saying MMIA should be left to VK alone and VK is not arguing that as well. VK never complained when Arik was allowed to use both MMIA & Abuja International!! VK had some routes reserved for 7 years, but the government immediately went back on it's word. Did the public hear VK complain--No. I think VK has had enough of the bull---t from the government and has to make a stand at some point.
Things is, NONE of the other airlines ever tried to move things forward in the Nigerian aviation scene till VK came in.
How many airlines had "proper" management & control systems,training regimes or safety policies before VK arrived?

VK insisted at inception that it needed to operate from MMIA in order to create a hub as required by the government. You say other airlines wanted to fulfill that role? Who and when? I can't seem to remember that.

In order to move the industry forward for ALL operators, then everyone should stand together and insist that the NCAA as a regulatory body has no business forcing people to operate from this or that terminal, and all airlines together can meet and verify if VK's claims on safety are true or not rather than seek their own niche with their favourite politician of the day. AON is just a talking shop for "OLD" bosses at WT. What have they done to support ALL airlines in Nigeria. Remember, VK is also a member.

As AVSEC said, Alex Van Moose seems to be changing his tune and through their adverts in the various dailies, have acknowledged that there is an IATA report. They are still questioning it's authenticity though! He also cites Bi-Courtney's need to repay loans taken for construction of the terminal as justification for everyone to operate from MMA2
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Old 10th Feb 2008, 04:24
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Thanks Rev for clarifying my point to JABAG. I mistakenly thought using the term 'VK as prime mover' allowed for an interpretation that other airlines could and should also benefit.

In 2005 when Virgin Nigeria came into being there was only Bellview that had any significant International/Regional and Domestic routes and to my knowledge they hadn't made any efforts to use MMIA for their Domestic flights. The Domestic area was a shambles with little proper control of the check-in procedure, and overbookings sorted out on the basis that the first pax onto the a/c flies, but if you are last in the queue then don't be too certain!!

The airlines that were flying then, and FAAN, had made little attempt to create any semblance of order in the facility so I doubt they were thinking ahead to the formation of a hub!! Actually I doubt they even had the vision to think that way!!

Then VK was selected from other airlines who had submitted proposals as the airline of the Governments choice to improve Nigerian Aviations standing in the World, including the long term vision of creating a West African hub at MMIA. Now maybe I'm old fashioned but 'long term' is generally longer than 2.5years! Since that day the airlines and backers who lost out have done their best to hamper VK in any way possible, and they have used AON as the vehicle to add 'respectability' to their mischief making.

Since then Arik have also chosen to operate from MMIA, and VK had parts of the terminal areas in MMIA that it, not FAAN, had renovated given to a competitor!

Now in an act of gross petulance and acting as a play ground bully, FAAN demolishes the Domestic Business class lounge that VK had designed and built in what was a rat infested, derelict area of MMIA before VK gutted and renovated it.

Hopefully these are the last acts of the few in power who are still scared of improvement, who feel threatened by something running efficiently.

For the sake of Nigerian Aviation as a whole MMIA must retain the ability to operate as a Transfer hub.
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Old 10th Feb 2008, 18:24
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Hey guys, right you all are. However other airlines did ask to operate out of MMIA and this was refused. The same request was made for Abuja, also refused.
What should have been done from day one was to have a 5, 10, 15 year plan. We all would have had the bluprint to follow. This however is not going to happen, and falls on the respective airlines to make their own luck. Today VK, tomorow........!
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Old 10th Feb 2008, 19:27
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hub or not?

Ive been following a lot of posts,and i think its beginning to get personal and passionate,no problem guys just take it easy,the peolple that caused this hullabaloo will soon come up with a solution,i,d like to ask however what lagos airport is supposed to be?a hub for all nigerian airlines ?or a personal hub of vk?and all this talk of docus signed at inception of vk how many of you passionate fellows are privy to this docus,lets tread softly and with caution please,and be less abusive lest we end up being fooled...........siddon look
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 01:51
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As a part of an entity that regularly invests within infrastructure under governmental control within Africa,you have got to feel for VK.
The destruction of the VK business lounge will not encourage corporate responsibility amongst the Nigerian governments foreign partners in other projects,because a lot of those companies are watching this development and learning from VK's current problems.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 04:06
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Jagunmolu I have seen the agreement between VK and the Federal Government. It exists, it is unambiguous, and it is signed.

I don't think VK has a problem (though I don't know this for a fact) with other airlines using MMIA as a hub. VK and Arik are using it now so why not other airlines as well providing there is space available on the stands and in the check-in area. The existing operators should have grandfather rights on the flight scheds and pier positions, but if that isn't an issue then open the hub up to more. In theory this increases passenger throughput which would benefit everyone.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 09:43
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Hi Jagunmolu,
I like your advise about everyone keeping a cool head and hope this doesn't descend into personal attacks and name calling. Just like Surely not, I too have seen the agreement between VK & FGN. Moving to MM2 affects VK more than most, because their flights are scheduled and crewed based on the hub concept. VK doesn't mind other airlines operating from MMIA as well.


Meanwhile... from sunday's daily trust newspaper

We stand by our report –IATA
Written by ....
Sunday, 10 February 2008
The International Air Transport Association (IATA) said on Friday that it stands by its November 2007 report identifying safety hazards at the Murtala Muhammed Airport terminal 2 (MM2).

A spokesperson of IATA, Mr Lorne Riley, said in an e-mail to the News Agency of Nigeria (NAN) that the organisation had safety as its top priority.

"IATA submitted a technical report to the Nigerian authorities that identified a number of shortcomings including inadequate jet blast protection in the parking areas in the domestic terminal MM2", Riley wrote.

The IATA spokesperson, who is Manager, Corporate Communications of the association, said the assessment followed a technical mission to Nigeria from November 7 to 8, 2007 when MM2 was visited.

Riley said IATA identified safety hazards in the manoeuvring and parking of aircraft at MM2.

"Safety is our top priority and IATA stands by its report", Riley stated.

He said IATA is willing to re-inspect the MM2 apron and parking areas with the relevant authorities to see if the status had changed since the November visit.

Controversy has trailed the state of MM2 since February 1, after Virgin Nigeria said it was worried about the safety of aircraft at the airport based on an IATA report.

The authenticity of the report has since been in dispute prompting NAN to seek clarification from the body.

Bi-Courtney Services Limited, managers of MM2, had insisted that the airport was safe and fit even for regional operations.

Already, Aero Contractors has slated February 11 to commence regional operations at the airport.

Airline Operators of Nigeria (AON) has also called on Virgin Nigeria to comply with the federal government’s directive to airlines to relocate to MM2.

NAN recalls that a six-man team from IATA, led by Mr Herman Groenewadd, Manager, IATA safety operations and infrastructure, Africa, visited Nigeria in November last year.

Groenewadd had told newsmen after the inspection, that the team was satisfied but would communicate some grey areas to the affected authorities
.
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 10:31
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What of Arik in all this? Are they being urged by AON to move as well?

Well today should have seen Aero operating Regional flights out of MMA2........... any news on how their operation went?
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 16:48
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Wat ya think surely not
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 20:07
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Hey guys, "they" struck again.
Aero turned up at MMA2, passengers tuned up, Immigration and customs late as usual. But the authorities cancelled the regioanl ops. Every one had to be moved bak to MMIA to board.
Whats going on?
All airlines need to work the hub conept. Either at MMIA or MMA2. There are short comings at both terminals and it needs to be fixed.

Oh Dear!
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 20:21
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flew out of MMA2 today with aero, the concept is good, but in reality it is too small to accomodate vk and arik especially with the nine vk emb jets coming in sept and ariks fleet.the finishing is poor, and when i went to the toilet, a guy with an orange t-shirt insisted to collect and keep my bag but he didnt have a pass/ID and i refused but he kept on insisting he was incharge of the toilet and has to keep my bag.

The first security lapse i noticed was after boarding was completed one pax couldnt not get a seat which confused everybody.eventually it was discovered a pax boarded the wrong plane, was meant to go to calabar.

Anyway, for those that dont know, NOTHING IS PERMANENT in Nigeria.It is written on most molues,luxurious buses and 911s.

There was an intresting article today on guardian

Aviation: Who sows, who reaps and who rips off?
By Musa Balarabe


"It is difficult to conceive of vigorous economic growth without an efficient aviation system"
- European Commission.
</I>THE title of this piece is not original. It was 'stolen' from the theme of one of the many annual conferences of the former Association of Advertising Practitioners of Nigeria (AAPN). But it is appropriate to this piece in light of the shenanigans currently going on in Nigeria's aviation sector. One of these is the recent directive by the Minister of State for Aviation, Dr. Felix Hyat, to the country's private sector-led flag carrier, Virgin Nigeria, and its competitor, Arik Air, to join other local airline operators at the domestic wing of the Murtala Muhammed International Airport, Ikeja (MMA2) for purposes of driving their local flights from the new terminal.
Government is said to have arrived at this decision in order to stem what is considered to be a rise in illicit drug trafficking at the nation's foremost airport owing to the ease of transfer achieved by passengers since the domestic and international services of the airlines in question are virtually seamless.
It is sad that a fundamental decision on service operation could be taken in utter disregard of the reason for being of the airlines, especially Virgin Nigeria, which will be harder hit than Arik Air in the new dispensation. This is because the existence of both airlines did not arise from the same set of circumstances. From the outset, Virgin Nigeria was conceived with the key objective of offering a global international network and to take alongside excellent domestic airlines that will continue to flourish in the domestic sector. Indeed, the promoters of the airline were requested to consider investment in airport infrastructure on the premise that Lagos becomes the leading aviation hub in Africa.
The promise of building an efficient aviation hub in Lagos, as contained in the MEMU - Memorandum of Mutual Understanding - signed between the Federal Government and Virgin Atlantic Airline in September 2004, the strategic investor and technical partner in the Flag Carrier project in Nigeria - necessitated the approval granted Virgin Nigeria to operate all its flights from MMIA. In effect, the airline was required to invest substantial sums of money in enhancing customer facilities in Nigerian airports, quite separate from the responsibilities of the Federal Airport Authority of Nigeria (FAAN). These works resulted in a dedicated area for Virgin Nigeria within the terminal, bringing a best-in-class experience to its customers. This was done primarily to enable smooth transfers between connecting Virgin Nigeria flights because the goal was to make MMIA become a leading aviation hub for Africa.
Virgin Nigeria consequently embarked on major renovation and upgrading of terminals of local airports with a view to positively improving on its service delivery to customers. According to the airline, the "African regional operation is hinged on fostering the spirit of brotherhood and the socio-cultural and economic ties that exist in Africa, especially as encapsulated by the New Partnership for Africa's Development (NEPAD)."
Interestingly, sometime in 2006 the Federal Government began a systematic breach of all agreements it signed with investors in the new flag carrier. First, it designated other operators on the so-called 'lucrative' routes that hitherto had been contractually reserved for Virgin Nigeria before its take-off. Next, the airline was compelled to give up space to competition at terminals that it had refurbished at its own cost. Again, government reneged on practically all the requirements earlier agreed to make Lagos an aviation hub.
The recent directive that Virgin Nigeria should move its domestic operation to MMA2 is worrisome for a number of reasons. At a corporate level, the airline will lose the huge capital it had invested in putting up globally competitive infrastructure at MMIA, as the domestic lounge will have to be dismantled at cost to the company without any refund from the Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria (FAAN). But it is Nigeria and, indeed, the aviation industry that is trying to find its feet that will be the biggest losers.
When people talk about the future development of the Nigerian economy, there is a lot of emphasis on oil and gas as well as agriculture, among other things. Hardly is there any significant emphasis on aviation, which the EU has identified as a critical vehicle for national development. If one looks anywhere in the world, what is required for a successful aviation hub is sufficient local demand. Nigeria has the perfect geographic position to be an aviation hub. But this opportunity will be lost because of myopic self-interest and wanton disregard for consistency in policy formulation and implementation.
A policy somersault as had happened to Virgin Nigeria, without doubt, is bound to shake the faith of international investors in Nigeria. Who on earth would seek to do business with a government and people that cannot keep faith with the spirit and letters of simple contracts? These are some basic issues that need to be revisited in the days to come, seeing that in the long run, the government directive will do more harm than good to the development of the aviation industry in Nigeria.
For the sake of an argument, let us assume that the relocation to MMA2 stands. But is this new terminal the solution that to whatever problem(s) that has/have been identified by government in arriving at its decision? By all means, no. For the simple reason that a recent report of the International Air Travel Association (IATA) Technical Mission to Lagos International Airport in November, 2007 identified deficiencies at MMA2 that need to be amended "as a matter of urgency to ensure safe operations at the new domestic terminal."
Among others, the IATA team said that "vehicular movement (on the apron) is uncontrolled;" "hydrant system, which is the fuelling system is not in place, the available fire extinguishers have no serviceability tags;" "the apron is too small for the intended scale of operation;" "passengers cross the apron without escort/guide;" "the distance between aircraft parked at remote parking lot and aircraft in the gate is too small, and aircraft may be damaged by jet blast" and "Gates 1 and 6 point to the end of the apron that is not protected by jet blast protectors." What is the hurry to order operators to a terminal that has apparently failed basic safety requirements? Little wonder all the other domestic operators resisted moving into MMA2 until they were compelled to do so. Must common good be subordinated to narrow self-interest? Whichever way one looks at the decision of government to ram hard decisions down the throats of operators, the all-important question will linger: in the business of aviation in Nigeria, "Who sows, who reaps and who rips-off?" There is need to tread carefully
http://www.guardiannewsngr.com/edito...o%20rips%20off?
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Old 11th Feb 2008, 20:39
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Patience Works

Guys as foretold ,the truth will eventually surface,we are begining to hear differing stories,we expect more and would soon be able to make informed deductions,we await more revelations/blackmail/brickbatting and serious mudslinging etc,just a little more patience would do the trick.Aluta Continua
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Old 12th Feb 2008, 06:09
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Angel Taking It Personal

Just read an article in todays TRIBUNE newspaper where Hon HYATT Minister for Aviation blew his top and swore to battle VK to the very end ,what he means by this is left to the imagination,i,d like to ask,WHERE IS THIS ANTI VK sentiment awaking from all of a sudden,methinks theres more to this than the court case and movt to MMA2 hmn VK had better find out what the real problem is,as i see bigger mountains ahead,while not trying to be NOSTRADAMUS.We need to tread with caution.This case has been taken very sorely and PERSONAL at the highest levels
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Old 13th Feb 2008, 12:53
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methinks the permanent solution beneficial to ALL airlines,is for an airside rail and/or bus service to link all terminals and let every airline stay where they are,this way all airlines irrespective of the terminal benefit from the hub concept and the passengers transfer is stress free

sombody pls tell AON and Joji to ,at this time in aviation we need people who can think,analyse and process information(basically someone who can think!),un biased and educated,and project us in a positive manner and are currently or have previously run a successful airline operation.None of the above is applicable to JOji or his cohorts at AON

By the way as a rejoinder to AON all BA flights Local or international are out of terminal four.Also if drug trafficking is on the rise in Nigerian airports,quick question why allow international flights from MMA2 if this is your genuine policy thrust to seperate local from international?
Futhermore all drug traffickers are arrested at check in/or immigration screening,what does this have to do with local flight arrival?
An airport local regional or international is supposed to be a secure area(correct me if am wrong AVSEC) so you want a portion of the aiport more secure than the other simply because of international flights?
Jagunmolu is right there is more to operation hurt VK than meets the eye
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Old 13th Feb 2008, 18:43
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you are absoloutely right bruv.
Disgraceful,the revelations from IATA communications innit?
Does this mean that anyone who denied there was an IATA report,was lying?
Did they honestly believe there was no IATA report?
Were they mislead,and if so by whom and for what motive?
Poor Van Elk.
Poor Bi Courtney management.
Does not look good for the Nigerian aviation industry does it?
Poor Africa....
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