C210 down in Windhoek
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And thanks for the assistance by his collegues during that time. They took over controlling while their colleague was relieved from controlling. All occuppants died in the crash, pilot and five passengers. If you can read Afrikaans see the following website: http://www.republikein.com.na/index.php
If you cannot read, look at the picture. So sad. God gave us not enough time to learn from the previous similar accident that occured on the 22th October 2007. Condolence to the breaved families and friends.
If you cannot read, look at the picture. So sad. God gave us not enough time to learn from the previous similar accident that occured on the 22th October 2007. Condolence to the breaved families and friends.
Last edited by Voel; 13th Jan 2008 at 06:56.
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Tragic Accident Again!!!!
Another brother with wings has died in the 2nd fatal accident at eros in 3 months, when is someone going to do something about it.
1. If the fault is with maintenance the companies need to be brought to book, or
2. pilot error then the standards need to evaluated and seriously looked at the way the licences are given (eg. exams,practical and theoritical done with DCA) and finally
3. If the ATC's are a contributing factors to these accidents in any way is the training policy and working standards of a poor level.
All these aspects need to be looked at with great urgency, we cannot lose another one of our brothers/sisters in the sky if it can be avoided!!!!
From what i heard through the corridors is that the ATC on duty gave the option of the secondary rwy, anyone who has flown in Eros knows that with full fuel and pax and tempretures climbing easily into the 30's (degrees Celcius) during this time of year. Rwy 09/27 which 1008m long is not enough to get safely airborne without struggling to gain altitude over a populated area.
Any Atc with experience "should" now this!
Have lessons from the previous accident really been learnt, i heard that the ATC that was on duty with the Bonni accident has resigned. I wonder if the proper support was offered to the Controller at the end of the day we are all human with emotions!
How long will it take for the guys high up in government to understand the urgency of the current crisis that is griping the whole of southern africa, how many more people have to loose their lives and controllers to loose faith in their skills before things get done the right way!!!
1. If the fault is with maintenance the companies need to be brought to book, or
2. pilot error then the standards need to evaluated and seriously looked at the way the licences are given (eg. exams,practical and theoritical done with DCA) and finally
3. If the ATC's are a contributing factors to these accidents in any way is the training policy and working standards of a poor level.
All these aspects need to be looked at with great urgency, we cannot lose another one of our brothers/sisters in the sky if it can be avoided!!!!
From what i heard through the corridors is that the ATC on duty gave the option of the secondary rwy, anyone who has flown in Eros knows that with full fuel and pax and tempretures climbing easily into the 30's (degrees Celcius) during this time of year. Rwy 09/27 which 1008m long is not enough to get safely airborne without struggling to gain altitude over a populated area.
Any Atc with experience "should" now this!Have lessons from the previous accident really been learnt, i heard that the ATC that was on duty with the Bonni accident has resigned. I wonder if the proper support was offered to the Controller at the end of the day we are all human with emotions!
How long will it take for the guys high up in government to understand the urgency of the current crisis that is griping the whole of southern africa, how many more people have to loose their lives and controllers to loose faith in their skills before things get done the right way!!!
. By the way, our politicians are aware of the current situation, but Rome was not build in one day
.
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News24 report-Windhoek C210 crash-Commiserations
12/01/2008 13:34 - (SA)
Windhoek - Five tourists were killed when a chartered light aircraft crashed while attempting an emergency landing in a residential suburb of Namibia's capital on Friday.
The pilot of the Cessna 210 plane was also killed, police and accident investigators said on Saturday.
"I was walking home back from the shop when I saw this aircraft flying really low over our area. The next moment, it flew right into that house there," said witness Tjiruripo Tjeriko.
The aircraft burst into flames on impact.
Namibian police spokesperson Angula Amalunga said the six people killed had not been identified.
Five of them are believed to have been foreign tourists on their way to a lodge near Namibia's Etosha Pans game reserve.
Source:http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/...250745,00.html
Windhoek - Five tourists were killed when a chartered light aircraft crashed while attempting an emergency landing in a residential suburb of Namibia's capital on Friday.
The pilot of the Cessna 210 plane was also killed, police and accident investigators said on Saturday.
"I was walking home back from the shop when I saw this aircraft flying really low over our area. The next moment, it flew right into that house there," said witness Tjiruripo Tjeriko.
The aircraft burst into flames on impact.
Namibian police spokesperson Angula Amalunga said the six people killed had not been identified.
Five of them are believed to have been foreign tourists on their way to a lodge near Namibia's Etosha Pans game reserve.
Source:http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/...250745,00.html
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Sincere condolences to the family of the pilot and the tourists. May they rest in peace.
I was an instructor myself in Namibia and flew charter for a company their close onto 2000hours around those parts. I fully agree with what was said on the Rwy 09/27, that no-one in their right mind with temperatures soaring way above the 30C can take off from such a short runway and have good obstacle clearance. I dont know what the take off runway was let alone the surface conditions at the time but what I should add is that the training standard in Namibia for such a thing is absolutely appaling. I hurts me seeing an aeroplane make a forced landing and knowing well that the training their is not up to standard....
I got these 43rd Air School "cowboys" come to me for test prep on a C210 and 99% of them were shocking the least to say. Not just them anybody who has a Commercial Pilot licence from anywhere was not ready for a C210. That aeroplane is not your friend in the early stages of flying and if you manage your time correctly and flying that aeroplane you will be seriously hurt.
I tried to set a standard in my company that I flew for to do at least 3 "simulated" forced landings every month. Many sectors you were alone and had the oppurtunity to do it. I even had the blessing from the CFI and the Big boss. Not a lot of companies do that, but wait all that effort fell on deaf ears and still we hear of all these accidents in Namibia due to forced landings gone wrong....I cant say whether it was one of those cases yet because I wasnt there to witness it myself...
What i like to add is that something must be done on the training side of things otherwise more and more of these accidents are going to happen. The C210 over there are getting older and older and the accidents are going to happen more often. The training must improve drastically and it must happen now.
If anybody has similar experience please elaborate.
Icarus
I was an instructor myself in Namibia and flew charter for a company their close onto 2000hours around those parts. I fully agree with what was said on the Rwy 09/27, that no-one in their right mind with temperatures soaring way above the 30C can take off from such a short runway and have good obstacle clearance. I dont know what the take off runway was let alone the surface conditions at the time but what I should add is that the training standard in Namibia for such a thing is absolutely appaling. I hurts me seeing an aeroplane make a forced landing and knowing well that the training their is not up to standard....
I got these 43rd Air School "cowboys" come to me for test prep on a C210 and 99% of them were shocking the least to say. Not just them anybody who has a Commercial Pilot licence from anywhere was not ready for a C210. That aeroplane is not your friend in the early stages of flying and if you manage your time correctly and flying that aeroplane you will be seriously hurt.
I tried to set a standard in my company that I flew for to do at least 3 "simulated" forced landings every month. Many sectors you were alone and had the oppurtunity to do it. I even had the blessing from the CFI and the Big boss. Not a lot of companies do that, but wait all that effort fell on deaf ears and still we hear of all these accidents in Namibia due to forced landings gone wrong....I cant say whether it was one of those cases yet because I wasnt there to witness it myself...
What i like to add is that something must be done on the training side of things otherwise more and more of these accidents are going to happen. The C210 over there are getting older and older and the accidents are going to happen more often. The training must improve drastically and it must happen now.
If anybody has similar experience please elaborate.
Icarus
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Just a warning - the Republikein website has a link to more photo's of the crash, including what appears to be a charred body. I make no judgement (or rather, I won't mention my opinion of this idea), but rather avoid looking at that unless you're ready for it. Some things you just don't need to see.
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Hi Voel.
I would have liked to help but unfortunately I don't have an ATC lic and accidents are not my thing. You identified the wrong guy!
I was not there.
These pictures are no good! Please keep some integrity.
I would have liked to help but unfortunately I don't have an ATC lic and accidents are not my thing. You identified the wrong guy!
I was not there.
These pictures are no good! Please keep some integrity.
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Hire and Fly
Condolences to the victims.
Eros was the first place I got a flying job, flying those C210's and C310's around SWA (in those days, in the eighties). I doubt the weather changed since then or the loads, so I know what the feeling of what it was like getting airborne with the normal aspirated C210 on a hot day. The turbo model was nice, but it got hot CHT's and chewed too much fuel per hour!
Any idea the registration of this C210? I have a list of about 8 I flew back then.
Eros was the first place I got a flying job, flying those C210's and C310's around SWA (in those days, in the eighties). I doubt the weather changed since then or the loads, so I know what the feeling of what it was like getting airborne with the normal aspirated C210 on a hot day. The turbo model was nice, but it got hot CHT's and chewed too much fuel per hour!
Any idea the registration of this C210? I have a list of about 8 I flew back then.
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Such a shame...
BvF sold to Pleasure Flights & Safari's a while back already. Can anyone say if the girl in the Republikein foto is AV who works for West Air as a training administrator?
I also did just shy of a 1000 hrs on C210. Only once did I take of on rwy27 on a hot day - I was empty and I said to myself that I'll never ever do it with pax.
I also did just shy of a 1000 hrs on C210. Only once did I take of on rwy27 on a hot day - I was empty and I said to myself that I'll never ever do it with pax.
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Was in SWA in the mid to late 80's and had an interesting mid-summers day take off from 01/19 with many hours on 210's. I won a lot of respect for that aeroplane but also realised i was not bullet proof and this experience has stuck with me forever. We all did stupid things when we were young and gung ho.
My condolences to friends and family of both pilot and pax. I hope that someone learns from this accident as someone will learn from he last 2 bad weather accidents we had in SA recently as people try to fly THRU mountains in bad weather.
ALL THE BEST FOR 2008
My condolences to friends and family of both pilot and pax. I hope that someone learns from this accident as someone will learn from he last 2 bad weather accidents we had in SA recently as people try to fly THRU mountains in bad weather.
ALL THE BEST FOR 2008
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Hi Bigmanatc, BvF settled down in Cape Town when he sold Atlantic Aviation to Pleasure Flights. I think he stopped flying altogether. Pilot's name is known to us, but will not relase his identity until he has been positively identified, which will be difficult task as all bodies are burnt beyond recognition. I believe the passenger were all Isrealies working for a local diamond company here in Windhoek.
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Its sad to hear another tragedy accident like this taking place in our beautiful Continent Africa.
Same thing happened here in Tanzania in last year to a C310 with a Minister onboard, but all i can say is what my Com. instructor in RSA told when he was checking me out on a C210, IT BITES.
B737 lover.
Same thing happened here in Tanzania in last year to a C310 with a Minister onboard, but all i can say is what my Com. instructor in RSA told when he was checking me out on a C210, IT BITES.
B737 lover.
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The aerie involved was V5-GWH from what I heard. A really sad day for aviation in Nam. My thoughts and prayers to everyone affected by this horrible tragedy. I did a lot of hours on that same a/c and Nam was where I learned to fly. Therefore by the grace of God go I. I remember a couple of times where I had a few close shaves in C210's but luckily made it to tell the tale. Ai, a really, really sad day.
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My information is also second hand, but a reliable source told me a version that sadly falls back on pilot error:
When the pilot in command requested taxi, he was told RWY09 was availiable. As the wind was slightly easterly, he requested the runmay length from the ATC who said it was 1500m. So the aircraft taxied and backtracked. Just before backtracking was completed, the ATC corrected himself and told the pilot, that he was mistaken and that the length was only 1000m. The temperature was in the high thirties and with the amount loaded, alarm bells should have already been ringing.
The pilot decided to give it a shot (such a long way to taxi back to 01...). The 210 probably took of due to ground effect and thereafter climb performance just su
ed. He did not have a choice - under thease conditions the aircraft just did not fly to outclimb the terrain-no room for a forced landing-no training in the world would have changed this.
Do not get me wrong - I do feel extremely sorry for the pilot and the victims.
However I think it is also wrong to throw the namibian aviation industry as a whole into question in this case (if my information is correct on what really happend). I think that 99.9% of us pilots here do have a very good conception of what density altitude means and how to make the performance calculation - not just for a flight with a lot of payload, but for every flight.
Surrounded by mountains, Eros does have downdraughts in these areas. Even RWY19 is a risk when there is a slight southerly breeze and should only be used with a wind stronger than 12 knots. If in doubt use 01! Maybe, being based at Swakop with sea level performance, the pilot did not add these factors into his calculation. Of course it also depends on the aircrafts performance, but a 210 will surely struggle extreamly.
It was not wrong of the ATC to mention 09 availiable and it is always the pilots discreation which runway to use. Yes - giving out the wrong length of runway at an airfield which you control is an unforgivable error, an embaressment not to mention - but he saved himself by correcting his guess before clearing the aircraft for TKOF. Why did the pilot commence his takeoff? Where was his situational awareness?
The way the aircraft crashed, this chain of events seems likely. If anyone has more infos or a different report, please feel free to comment. So in my view it was solely a chain of human error starting with the ATC.
This conclusion relieves me partially because I have to climb into a 210 almost every day myself-bad maintanance is a thing we pilots have little control over but deciding to commence TKOF in any situation, is purely our responsibility.This is also the reason the law gives the pilot in command the right to reject any instructions given by anybody. The way the press handles these matters is appalling and damaging but I hope this teaches us all to question ourselves and our decisions, always.
Condolances to the families and loved-ones - you suffer most and your loss has struck us all.
When the pilot in command requested taxi, he was told RWY09 was availiable. As the wind was slightly easterly, he requested the runmay length from the ATC who said it was 1500m. So the aircraft taxied and backtracked. Just before backtracking was completed, the ATC corrected himself and told the pilot, that he was mistaken and that the length was only 1000m. The temperature was in the high thirties and with the amount loaded, alarm bells should have already been ringing.
The pilot decided to give it a shot (such a long way to taxi back to 01...). The 210 probably took of due to ground effect and thereafter climb performance just su
ed. He did not have a choice - under thease conditions the aircraft just did not fly to outclimb the terrain-no room for a forced landing-no training in the world would have changed this.Do not get me wrong - I do feel extremely sorry for the pilot and the victims.
However I think it is also wrong to throw the namibian aviation industry as a whole into question in this case (if my information is correct on what really happend). I think that 99.9% of us pilots here do have a very good conception of what density altitude means and how to make the performance calculation - not just for a flight with a lot of payload, but for every flight.
Surrounded by mountains, Eros does have downdraughts in these areas. Even RWY19 is a risk when there is a slight southerly breeze and should only be used with a wind stronger than 12 knots. If in doubt use 01! Maybe, being based at Swakop with sea level performance, the pilot did not add these factors into his calculation. Of course it also depends on the aircrafts performance, but a 210 will surely struggle extreamly.
It was not wrong of the ATC to mention 09 availiable and it is always the pilots discreation which runway to use. Yes - giving out the wrong length of runway at an airfield which you control is an unforgivable error, an embaressment not to mention - but he saved himself by correcting his guess before clearing the aircraft for TKOF. Why did the pilot commence his takeoff? Where was his situational awareness?
The way the aircraft crashed, this chain of events seems likely. If anyone has more infos or a different report, please feel free to comment. So in my view it was solely a chain of human error starting with the ATC.
This conclusion relieves me partially because I have to climb into a 210 almost every day myself-bad maintanance is a thing we pilots have little control over but deciding to commence TKOF in any situation, is purely our responsibility.This is also the reason the law gives the pilot in command the right to reject any instructions given by anybody. The way the press handles these matters is appalling and damaging but I hope this teaches us all to question ourselves and our decisions, always.
Condolances to the families and loved-ones - you suffer most and your loss has struck us all.
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Family tragedy
I have followed the discussions, speculations and information on this web site over the last few days. Thank you. I am a family member of the young pilot who died so tragically. Without the input of this chat site we would still be totally in the dark. So many questions will never be answered. At least you guys have given us some idea as to what could have happened. As to where the fault lies is irrelevent to us as the time. Eventually we will have to face up to and deal with that but at the moment all that we as a family are trying to deal with is the loss of one of our beloved sons. Thank you so much for all the prayers and words of condolence. Thank you to all who assisted, comforted and stood by at the scene of the crash and to those who are at this moment 'carrying' his parents and two sisters through the reality of Windhoek and all it holds for them.
I must however condemn the press strongly - the visuals were horrific and sensation seeking. How could this have been allowed? This was the first reality his family had of the disaster. It will stay with us forever. Who ever took and published these photographs ...... shame on you!
D was 23 years old. He lived to fly. He was passionate about it. He loved music, diving, photography, made friends at a furious pace, loved, laughed and lived like any normal 23 year old. We will miss him greatly and morn him with great sadness. Please spare a thought for his grieving parents and his two beautiful sisters. There loss is huge.
Our hearts and our prayers are with the familys of the passengers who died in the crash. May God carry and comfort you.
Thank you all again. WP
I must however condemn the press strongly - the visuals were horrific and sensation seeking. How could this have been allowed? This was the first reality his family had of the disaster. It will stay with us forever. Who ever took and published these photographs ...... shame on you!
D was 23 years old. He lived to fly. He was passionate about it. He loved music, diving, photography, made friends at a furious pace, loved, laughed and lived like any normal 23 year old. We will miss him greatly and morn him with great sadness. Please spare a thought for his grieving parents and his two beautiful sisters. There loss is huge.
Our hearts and our prayers are with the familys of the passengers who died in the crash. May God carry and comfort you.
Thank you all again. WP