South African Black Pilots
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Press Releases
September 12, 2007 - 08:47The truth about affirmative action in South Africa
The trade union Solidarity this week issued a document entitled The Truth about Affirmative Action in South Africa, in which it points out that transformation in South Africa has progressed much further than is generally accepted.
The report also shows why the Employment Equity Commission’s reports cannot serve as a basis for scientific deductions on employment equity in our country. The report was introduced at the Western Cape launch of Solidarity Deputy General Secretary Dr Dirk Hermann’s book The Naked Emperor – Why affirmative action has failed.
Despite their flawed scientific basis, the Employment Equity Commission’s own reports show that South Africa is much further along the road to transformation than the Commission’s own reports would suggest.
According to the report, black male representation at top management level has grown by 55,9% from 2001-2006; at senior management level by 44% and at professional and mid-management levels by 44%. Representation by white males declined by 22% at top management level, by 25% at senior management level and by 24% at professional and middle management level. White females were hardest hit. Their share of the labour market declined by 24% between 2001 and 2006. The share of white males in the labour market as a whole declined by 16%.
The Solidarity report shows that there are year on year variations of between 30% and 195% in the number of reports submitted by employers. Only about 28% - or approximately 1 540 out of an average of 5 478 reports – come from the same employers. This means that different years cannot be compared, since the data sets are so radically different. In addition, the Employment Equity Commission’s reports only cover approximately 9,28% of South African employees.
The Solidarity report used data from the Employment Equity Commission, the General Household Survey, a database of JSE directors, the South African Advertising Research Foundation studies on the black middle-class and reports by the Public Service Commission.
The Solidarity report found that many black-dominated employers failed to submit employment equity reports, which skews the information regarding employment equity. In 2005, 25 municipalities (including Tshwane and Johannesburg), 13 provincial departments and 19 national departments did not submit reports. Other institutions that did not submit reports include parliament and the Director of Public Prosecutions.
According to the South African Advertising Research Foundation, black representation in senior management increased from 8 766 to 28 658 between 1997 and 2006. In the same period, white representation declined from 30 876 to 22 758. The JSE currently lists 24% black directors. In the past 13 months the black middle class grew by an astonishing 30% and now numbers 2,6 million. At present there are more black diamonds than working whites and the buying power of the black diamonds amounts to R180 billion, i.e. 28% of South African buying power. On Wednesday, 12 September, Solidarity introduced a comprehensive report on white females and affirmative action at the public hearings of the parliamentary portfolio committee workplace discrimination. Place: Room v475, Parliament.
Dirk Hermann
Deputy General Secretary: Solidarity
September 12, 2007 - 08:47The truth about affirmative action in South Africa
The trade union Solidarity this week issued a document entitled The Truth about Affirmative Action in South Africa, in which it points out that transformation in South Africa has progressed much further than is generally accepted.
The report also shows why the Employment Equity Commission’s reports cannot serve as a basis for scientific deductions on employment equity in our country. The report was introduced at the Western Cape launch of Solidarity Deputy General Secretary Dr Dirk Hermann’s book The Naked Emperor – Why affirmative action has failed.
Despite their flawed scientific basis, the Employment Equity Commission’s own reports show that South Africa is much further along the road to transformation than the Commission’s own reports would suggest.
According to the report, black male representation at top management level has grown by 55,9% from 2001-2006; at senior management level by 44% and at professional and mid-management levels by 44%. Representation by white males declined by 22% at top management level, by 25% at senior management level and by 24% at professional and middle management level. White females were hardest hit. Their share of the labour market declined by 24% between 2001 and 2006. The share of white males in the labour market as a whole declined by 16%.
The Solidarity report shows that there are year on year variations of between 30% and 195% in the number of reports submitted by employers. Only about 28% - or approximately 1 540 out of an average of 5 478 reports – come from the same employers. This means that different years cannot be compared, since the data sets are so radically different. In addition, the Employment Equity Commission’s reports only cover approximately 9,28% of South African employees.
The Solidarity report used data from the Employment Equity Commission, the General Household Survey, a database of JSE directors, the South African Advertising Research Foundation studies on the black middle-class and reports by the Public Service Commission.
The Solidarity report found that many black-dominated employers failed to submit employment equity reports, which skews the information regarding employment equity. In 2005, 25 municipalities (including Tshwane and Johannesburg), 13 provincial departments and 19 national departments did not submit reports. Other institutions that did not submit reports include parliament and the Director of Public Prosecutions.
According to the South African Advertising Research Foundation, black representation in senior management increased from 8 766 to 28 658 between 1997 and 2006. In the same period, white representation declined from 30 876 to 22 758. The JSE currently lists 24% black directors. In the past 13 months the black middle class grew by an astonishing 30% and now numbers 2,6 million. At present there are more black diamonds than working whites and the buying power of the black diamonds amounts to R180 billion, i.e. 28% of South African buying power. On Wednesday, 12 September, Solidarity introduced a comprehensive report on white females and affirmative action at the public hearings of the parliamentary portfolio committee workplace discrimination. Place: Room v475, Parliament.
Dirk Hermann
Deputy General Secretary: Solidarity
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Well, previously disadvantaged individuals consist of Blacks, Indians and Coloureds. So...are you saying SAA have enough Indian and Coloured pilots. Just to clarify? If this is the case, totally unfair, I think.
Are you guys who chest thump about having to work your way up are blind to the fact that cadet programs is how many cockpits around the world are filled? If you aren't I guess we are just complaining about how unfair it is that you maybe excluded? Were you complaining 13 years ago under the previous system about how your brothers and sisters were being treated?
Cadet programs fill cockpits where there are shortages in pilots. There is none in SA that was not caused by the AA program and the crime in this country. If you read this thread carefully without your Oprah blinkers, you will see that there are very specific challenges in this country and those are being mismanaged by a government that should know better.
South Africa abolished slavery long before the good ol' US of A. We have progressive constitution that puts yours to shame and the white population of SA is a very small minority, so even if we wanted to oppress the rest of the population (which we don't), we can't.
Get a life and try and reign in your own war-mongering president before you get involved in my beautiful country's politics.
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Jetnut, once again I have to agree with Nugpot. I also think you are being deliberately obtuse. I do not profess to know every pilot in SA. Nor have I ever claimed to do so. Read the post again. I clearly said I am not saying there are no black pilots who paid their own way, simply that I have not met any! After a career in aviation in excess of twenty years I would think it fair to at least have met ONE. Particularly as is fondly imagined there are allegedly hoards of blacks who, but for apartheid, would've been flying today! The issue is, the blacks have clearly not got the same desire, passion or whatever else you wish to call it to fly aeroplanes. When I was a kid there was no programme like the SAAF's Siyandiza programme going to far-flung places to encourage anyone. There was no cadet programme. The Mecca of aviation and the only choice really was SAA. Yet many people, including myself, stuck to our guns, bit the bullet and scrounged, begged and borrowed (never stole) our way to the ratings and hours to get what we had always wanted. I do not come from a wealthy family and paid my own way, holding down a job and doing extra part time work to accumulate the funds. There were days I did not eat. So, NO SIR, the blacks never had the monopoly in suffering! As for the moron from New Orleans also trying to get his kicks at our expense, once again well said Nugpot! Go and sort out your own mess in New Orleans. Talking about sub-human behaviour then you need not look further than your own city to see some sub-human goings-on following after Hurrican Katherine!
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Employment Equity Reporting
According to Eraser's post, a lot of BEE controlled companies and, even more shockingly, many government depts. in SA are not submitting reports on compliance with said government's EE objectives yet it's white controlled companies that are threatened with prosecution.
Sounds like racist discrimination to me! So much for the much cherished belief in some quarters that only whites are capable of racism and discrimination! Wonder what the approx. 1 million dead Rwandans would have to say about that?!
Anybody from any race is capable of the most heinous acts given the right circumstances coupled with a total lack of basic morality! Has no one, especially some politicians, learned a damn thing from WW2 and other 20th century conflicts?
Sounds like racist discrimination to me! So much for the much cherished belief in some quarters that only whites are capable of racism and discrimination! Wonder what the approx. 1 million dead Rwandans would have to say about that?!
Anybody from any race is capable of the most heinous acts given the right circumstances coupled with a total lack of basic morality! Has no one, especially some politicians, learned a damn thing from WW2 and other 20th century conflicts?
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Do your job moderators!!!!
such pointless issue and history recall will only wind up some individuals...even though i might think this topic could have been dealt with in some other ways and not openly in a forum.
It's like to bring up germany's 1939 WW2 with some germans(obviously not responsible for what happened during those time)...some will be open...but most will avoid.
Let's avoid such fragile topic people....
It's like to bring up germany's 1939 WW2 with some germans(obviously not responsible for what happened during those time)...some will be open...but most will avoid.
Let's avoid such fragile topic people....
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Flying Binghi seeing as you deem it nesessary to get involved in this discussion on Internal South African aviation problems.....
Please could you inform me of how many Aboriginals are in Qantas, or any other of your airlines? do you have Cadet programmes for Aboriginal people, is there any guilt in Australia for what you have done to the indiginous people in your own country, or do you quite conveniantly overlook those problems and stand on a soap box and shout at South Africans.
Its quite blatantly disgusting how your countrymen have treated the indigenous people of Australia, and what you have reduced them to.
Please could you inform me of how many Aboriginals are in Qantas, or any other of your airlines? do you have Cadet programmes for Aboriginal people, is there any guilt in Australia for what you have done to the indiginous people in your own country, or do you quite conveniantly overlook those problems and stand on a soap box and shout at South Africans.
Its quite blatantly disgusting how your countrymen have treated the indigenous people of Australia, and what you have reduced them to.
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Well said Nugs and fluffyfan.
Is it not amazing that when you start to point out others' shortcomings and inequalities, how quickly they want to drop and bin the thread.
Was going to ask yesterday how many aborigine's fly for Quantas, but then we all know. Perhaps soon if they are lucky they will be allowed to enter Cadet programmes in Gibson Dessert Airlines.
Let those who live in glass houses not cast the first stone!
Is it not amazing that when you start to point out others' shortcomings and inequalities, how quickly they want to drop and bin the thread.
Was going to ask yesterday how many aborigine's fly for Quantas, but then we all know. Perhaps soon if they are lucky they will be allowed to enter Cadet programmes in Gibson Dessert Airlines.
Let those who live in glass houses not cast the first stone!
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Hats Off.
Interesting Thread!
Chuffed at how far this thread has come well done to everyone, we have started something good here, by the looks of it everyone wants things to get better in SA concerning the race issue.
Wonder if Balawa ever thought it would take this course when he asked those now so famous questions.
Once again hats off to u all
Zazoo
Chuffed at how far this thread has come well done to everyone, we have started something good here, by the looks of it everyone wants things to get better in SA concerning the race issue.
Wonder if Balawa ever thought it would take this course when he asked those now so famous questions.
Once again hats off to u all
Zazoo
Gatvol
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What a topic..........Re-invent the wheel. I have been flying for 38 years and my Flight Surgeon has been flying longer than that........He is Black. Oh my god, its amazing. Black folks can fly.......Im going to have to ask him if flying is difficult, maybe harder than MED SCHOOL.
This should be on Jet Blast......Then we could all say what kind of XXXXing idiot started this thread.
Hey this has XXXXall to do with SA or OZ land. Come to the States and I will let you go fly with real Indians..........Yes they also fly, XXXXing amazing isnt it........ If Im coreect the first semi upright walking thing in space was a Chimp....... Humans were second.......
Into the shelter awaiting the smart bomb??
This should be on Jet Blast......Then we could all say what kind of XXXXing idiot started this thread.
Hey this has XXXXall to do with SA or OZ land. Come to the States and I will let you go fly with real Indians..........Yes they also fly, XXXXing amazing isnt it........ If Im coreect the first semi upright walking thing in space was a Chimp....... Humans were second.......
Into the shelter awaiting the smart bomb??
Interesting post B Sousa,
I dont see it written anywhere in this thread the claim that black people cannot fly. From your USA perspective I think the WW2 Tuskegee crew put any lingering doubts of that to rest.
Perhaps you should reread Balewa's post.
I dont see it written anywhere in this thread the claim that black people cannot fly. From your USA perspective I think the WW2 Tuskegee crew put any lingering doubts of that to rest.
Perhaps you should reread Balewa's post.
Last edited by Flying Binghi; 25th Nov 2007 at 04:21. Reason: Spelling
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CoPilot
Now add extra factors such as personality, I have flown with and done training with pilots of various races who either excelled at being a hands on pilot ready to make those decisions and those who are not worthy of being anything more than co-pilots.
Hello Soap. Just confirm your feeling about co-pilots please?
I'm referring to large aeroplaned and CRM and all that "Rubbish".....
Post #12 refers.
Hello Soap. Just confirm your feeling about co-pilots please?
I'm referring to large aeroplaned and CRM and all that "Rubbish".....
Post #12 refers.
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What a topic..........Re-invent the wheel. I have been flying for 38 years and my Flight Surgeon has been flying longer than that........He is Black. Oh my god, its amazing. Black folks can fly.......Im going to have to ask him if flying is difficult, maybe harder than MED SCHOOL.
This should be on Jet Blast......Then we could all say what kind of XXXXing idiot started this thread.
Hey this has XXXXall to do with SA or OZ land. Come to the States and I will let you go fly with real Indians..........Yes they also fly, XXXXing amazing isnt it........ If Im coreect the first semi upright walking thing in space was a Chimp....... Humans were second.......
Into the shelter awaiting the smart bomb?
This should be on Jet Blast......Then we could all say what kind of XXXXing idiot started this thread.
Hey this has XXXXall to do with SA or OZ land. Come to the States and I will let you go fly with real Indians..........Yes they also fly, XXXXing amazing isnt it........ If Im coreect the first semi upright walking thing in space was a Chimp....... Humans were second.......
Into the shelter awaiting the smart bomb?
But can he swim................
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Quote: "If Im coreect the first semi upright walking thing in space was a Chimp....... Humans were second......."
Well if chimps had developed the technology and BUILT the rocket...then this would be a valid point....and of grave concern for us humans....but they didn't......
I digress..
Fact is that the underlying question here, the proverbial rhinocerous on the coffee table....is the question of the relationship between aptitudes, technologies and cultural pathologies...in other words, are there features of one particular group that leads them to have particular prowess in a field of endeavour.....or are we all exactly the same with exactly the same potential.
Is there certain cultural pathologies whose traits are anathema to technology.....for instance, is a strong culture of 'saving face' anathema to good crm which is critical to flight safety and therefore, should that cultural group refrain from crew concept flying?
Hard questions and being militantly politically correct will not lead to any constructive discussions....only mud-slinging.
Well if chimps had developed the technology and BUILT the rocket...then this would be a valid point....and of grave concern for us humans....but they didn't......
I digress..
Fact is that the underlying question here, the proverbial rhinocerous on the coffee table....is the question of the relationship between aptitudes, technologies and cultural pathologies...in other words, are there features of one particular group that leads them to have particular prowess in a field of endeavour.....or are we all exactly the same with exactly the same potential.
Is there certain cultural pathologies whose traits are anathema to technology.....for instance, is a strong culture of 'saving face' anathema to good crm which is critical to flight safety and therefore, should that cultural group refrain from crew concept flying?
Hard questions and being militantly politically correct will not lead to any constructive discussions....only mud-slinging.
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bman0429
bman I hope you are not suggesting that slavery was invented by the white man, if you are I suggest you open a few books and you will find out that slavery has been around from year dot, white people took other white people as slaves during the Roman empire and far earlier than that, black people took other black people slaves during wars between villages and tribes.
I know this is not an aviation related post but just thought I would set you straight on a few points.......as for "the whole skin color thing being dreamed up by some white guy" I think you may find that people have separated themselves into tribes and races from before recorded history, so give that little "white guy" you seem to blame everything on a break and lets deal with facts.
A slave's a slave's wether you work in the house or the field its the same.That whole skin color thing was dreamed up by some white guy where he was the ideal and each variation further from him was a little down the chain. What a proud heritage!
I know this is not an aviation related post but just thought I would set you straight on a few points.......as for "the whole skin color thing being dreamed up by some white guy" I think you may find that people have separated themselves into tribes and races from before recorded history, so give that little "white guy" you seem to blame everything on a break and lets deal with facts.
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Balewa
BALEWA,
If you are a pilot, fly and enjoy the rewards that your chosen career may bring.
Be professional and be true to your beliefs.
Uphold the standards that we have come to expect from the aviation community.
I have many friends that fly and I do not classify them as anything except fellow aviators-welcome to the sky, enjoy it safely with us!
I wish you well.
If you are a pilot, fly and enjoy the rewards that your chosen career may bring.
Be professional and be true to your beliefs.
Uphold the standards that we have come to expect from the aviation community.
I have many friends that fly and I do not classify them as anything except fellow aviators-welcome to the sky, enjoy it safely with us!
I wish you well.
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Fluffyfan, to add to your last post regarding slave taking. There were in excess of a million WHITE slaves taken by the North Africans when the Cartheginians were raiding Europe prior to the Roman Empire. No one culture has it over the other with regards to slavery but the American blacks and the African Mugabe wannabees love the-Whites-took-Blacks-as-slaves refrain. Always conveniently forgetting the African slave-taking expeditions were led mainly by Arabs. Zanzibar was a slave trading post belonging to the Sultan of Oman. The whites did have slaves but they were mostly bought from Arabs and the Arabs mostly bought them from the various Black tribal chiefs. So, there own people sold them into slavery. And then we wont mention the slave trade that went on amongst the various black tribes. A bit off the topic I know, but then bman chose to rehash Black Panther propaganda from 1960's USA! NOW, enough of the history and the past, can we get back to flying related topics?
Gatvol
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Since 1994, South Africa has been run by the ANC. In theory, this has given any wannbe "African" pilot 13 years to get a licence and get a job at SAA. PDI's have been given plenty of opportunities in South Africa and SAA since 1994