Cape Town SAA A346
AlwaysOnFire
Join Date: Jan 2004
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http://allafrica.com/stories/200711030082.html
The accident happened 2:40 PM.
The accident happened 2:40 PM.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Judge not lest ye be judged yourself....
Having said that, I know what would have happened to me, had I done something like this whilst working for my present boss. I'm quite sure I'd have been fired pretty quickly. All this, whilst earning minimum wage too!
Yeah, sure, an A346 is a challenge to operate. THATS WHY THOSE BOYS AND GIRLS EARN THE BIG BUCKS. You don't seriously think you can just come to work and collect money for showing up, having earned enough seniority to get high enough in the queue to pole one of those? Nope, they have to deliver. And in this case, they didn't. You can cry ACSA, taxi lines, whatever (all are no doubt contributing factors, sure). But at the end of the day, this incident occured at taxi speed, in day, VMC, on a dry runway. In other words, the crew had the choice of continuing or not - and if they couldn't stop, then they were going too fast for the situation.
What I say here, I would expect to be said of me had I done the same thing. As pilots, we are held to a high standard, and that's how it is. Barring mechanical failure of some kind, they drove themselves into this mess, nobody else. It serves as a reminder of the constant vigilance required from all of us. Operating in Africa just makes the requirements all the higher.
Again, I merely mention how I would expect to be judged after doing what has apparently happened here.
Having said that, I know what would have happened to me, had I done something like this whilst working for my present boss. I'm quite sure I'd have been fired pretty quickly. All this, whilst earning minimum wage too!
Yeah, sure, an A346 is a challenge to operate. THATS WHY THOSE BOYS AND GIRLS EARN THE BIG BUCKS. You don't seriously think you can just come to work and collect money for showing up, having earned enough seniority to get high enough in the queue to pole one of those? Nope, they have to deliver. And in this case, they didn't. You can cry ACSA, taxi lines, whatever (all are no doubt contributing factors, sure). But at the end of the day, this incident occured at taxi speed, in day, VMC, on a dry runway. In other words, the crew had the choice of continuing or not - and if they couldn't stop, then they were going too fast for the situation.
What I say here, I would expect to be said of me had I done the same thing. As pilots, we are held to a high standard, and that's how it is. Barring mechanical failure of some kind, they drove themselves into this mess, nobody else. It serves as a reminder of the constant vigilance required from all of us. Operating in Africa just makes the requirements all the higher.
Again, I merely mention how I would expect to be judged after doing what has apparently happened here.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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If these taxiways was NOTAM’ed then I think ACSA’s lawyers will had a easy way out of this one. As we all know the P.I.C. carry the can. Rightly or wrongly so. If you have ever dealt with insurance / lawyers they will ask lots of questions and the only answers you can give is yes or no.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I was the same era as Capt. "SANDY". I got rejected as I was not the "right profile" ( still don't know why they interviewed me as my skin colour and sex is obvious ). She got hired.
I taxi my company's B777-300's around the world in a safe manner, even in Mumbai, doing 180's on the short runway when RWY27 is closed for maintenance. At night and rainy, Very, very tight even in dry daylight..
One of my era applicants just returned a B737 that lost an engine, yip, fell of, safely to the airport in bad weather.
Maybe S.A.A. reap what they sowed.
O.K. Fluffy Fan, Beech bum and Jett Nut, shoot.....
I taxi my company's B777-300's around the world in a safe manner, even in Mumbai, doing 180's on the short runway when RWY27 is closed for maintenance. At night and rainy, Very, very tight even in dry daylight..
One of my era applicants just returned a B737 that lost an engine, yip, fell of, safely to the airport in bad weather.
Maybe S.A.A. reap what they sowed.
O.K. Fluffy Fan, Beech bum and Jett Nut, shoot.....
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Lemme help ByAirMail
Perhaps when you have an endless supply of bucks (yes you know from where) for maintenance, you dont need to rely too much on crew skills anymore.
Perhaps when you have an endless supply of bucks (yes you know from where) for maintenance, you dont need to rely too much on crew skills anymore.
Join Date: May 2002
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I have been curios as to why the nose wheel is so far off the tarmac and gave it some thought. Let me state ahead of time that I am not trying to be a smart ass and point fingers at anyone. I know that the whole thing could be a mechanical fault/computer malfunction and I will read the eventual report with much interest to discover the truth. I have flown the type and have seen the steering "do its own thing" on one occasion. I have also flown with other people that have had the same problem. This was a known problem at my company and I believe that the problem was sorted out.
I was thinking that had I been sitting in that unfortunate seat, the first thing that would probably happen as the nose slipped off the tar would be to increase the steering angle to get the machine back on the tar ASAP (It's human instinct to try and correct the problem first rather than stop and accept the mistake). With the nose at 70/80 degrees and very little/no grip on the dirt my guess is that the a/c continued in a straight line with the nose wheel turned until it dug itself in (or the brakes where applied).
I honestly hope for the crews sake that it was a problem with the aircraft but at the end of the day nobody was hurt and that's what really matters.
W2
I was thinking that had I been sitting in that unfortunate seat, the first thing that would probably happen as the nose slipped off the tar would be to increase the steering angle to get the machine back on the tar ASAP (It's human instinct to try and correct the problem first rather than stop and accept the mistake). With the nose at 70/80 degrees and very little/no grip on the dirt my guess is that the a/c continued in a straight line with the nose wheel turned until it dug itself in (or the brakes where applied).
I honestly hope for the crews sake that it was a problem with the aircraft but at the end of the day nobody was hurt and that's what really matters.
W2
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Oom Kaspaas
That was not very nice, this Captain of the flight are geting all the flack from everywhere. So stop all the crap till the investigation is over please.
That was not very nice, this Captain of the flight are geting all the flack from everywhere. So stop all the crap till the investigation is over please.
Feasant Plucker
Join Date: Feb 2001
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The one doing the taxiing doesn't have nuts. Maybe a kick in the p
s
s
Your post shows a great deal of sensitivity. Obviously a lot of thought went into it.
One would hope you do not land up in the same situation yourself. Remember, "to err is human, to forgive, divine" and I'm sure you would like the same treatment some day............
An accident/incident is very seldom due to one action - normally a chain of events. Wait for the results of the investigation,
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Not surprised at all that the nosewheel came to a rest so far off the pavement. The -600 needs a lot of angular momentum at the start of the turn as it loses energy very quickly due to the pivoting stresses on the main landing gear. Particularly the inboard and center gear. Remember they are double bogeys and the mainwheels are turning very slowly while the nosewheel is arcing around at a fair rate. If you don't start the turn with sufficient momentum and thrust the aircraft will stop midturn, requiring a large application of asymetric thrust to get her going again.
In this case the angular momentum looked fine - but the judgement of when to start the turn was obviously off. With the nosewheel 5 meters behind the pilots position and the mains 38 meters behind, the -600 can be a real bitch to taxi around tight corners. Very easy to misjudge particularly if you are new on type. Having to do 150 degree turns is also very rare.
Everyone makes mistakes - but unlike most other profesions, our shortcomings are very visible and very public.
Hard luck guys.
In this case the angular momentum looked fine - but the judgement of when to start the turn was obviously off. With the nosewheel 5 meters behind the pilots position and the mains 38 meters behind, the -600 can be a real bitch to taxi around tight corners. Very easy to misjudge particularly if you are new on type. Having to do 150 degree turns is also very rare.
Everyone makes mistakes - but unlike most other profesions, our shortcomings are very visible and very public.
Hard luck guys.
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Congoman
What do you know about big Airbuses?
Just pulling your leg!
This is not an easy aeroplane to taxi around most airports. I notice now that we get more freedom at Heathrow from other aircraft when we start to taxi. We need the space and mustn't stop. The over steering is incredible and then you only just make the turn.
I find Delhi is also a catch with this aircraft, as the parking stripe is very short, so once you turn into the bay, there no forward distance to straighten up. Therefore the turn has to be correct 100%, when you decide to enter the bay. The camera's are great, but they don't help you when you make a sharp turn into the unknown, as you will loose your yellow stripe, as it is out of the field of vision of the camera.
To taxi this long machine well, takes time and experience I am still learning about it's dimensions each day I fly her.
Just pulling your leg!
This is not an easy aeroplane to taxi around most airports. I notice now that we get more freedom at Heathrow from other aircraft when we start to taxi. We need the space and mustn't stop. The over steering is incredible and then you only just make the turn.
I find Delhi is also a catch with this aircraft, as the parking stripe is very short, so once you turn into the bay, there no forward distance to straighten up. Therefore the turn has to be correct 100%, when you decide to enter the bay. The camera's are great, but they don't help you when you make a sharp turn into the unknown, as you will loose your yellow stripe, as it is out of the field of vision of the camera.
To taxi this long machine well, takes time and experience I am still learning about it's dimensions each day I fly her.
Last edited by sidestick driver; 9th Nov 2007 at 06:53.
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With the nosewheel 5 meters behind the pilots position and the mains 38 meters behind, the -600 can be a real bitch to taxi around tight corners
If you don't start the turn with sufficient momentum and thrust the aircraft will stop midturn, requiring a large application of asymetric thrust to get her going agai
Lets see what the investigation brings out
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Yes you are quite right the view is limited, but you have several fields of view, Nosewheel camera, Tail cam, windscreen and two pairs of eyes
. You would surely have seen it coming. 
. You would surely have seen it coming.
