English Proficiency Test
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I've heard the following:
Its an ICAO thing and its worldwide. Don't know if all countries will adhere to it though. The test has nothing to do with aviation english. Its purely about understanding english. If you fail the first computer based test, which is multiple guess, you do a verbal interview with an assessor either in person or telephonically. A person proficient in english would be graded as level 6. Level 4 is the minimum required.
Rumour has it that the french have automatically built it into their licensing system so that if you have an ATC or pilot's licence you automatically get a level 4 without any extra tests.
Its an ICAO thing and its worldwide. Don't know if all countries will adhere to it though. The test has nothing to do with aviation english. Its purely about understanding english. If you fail the first computer based test, which is multiple guess, you do a verbal interview with an assessor either in person or telephonically. A person proficient in english would be graded as level 6. Level 4 is the minimum required.
Rumour has it that the french have automatically built it into their licensing system so that if you have an ATC or pilot's licence you automatically get a level 4 without any extra tests.
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Cavortingcheetah if you are interested in doing a Rater course the ATNS training academy offers the course.It a week long course that teaches you how to conduct the interview etc....Know it's a bit of a slap in the face for guys who have been talking on the radio for years now with no incident , but I think Icao is just trying to eliminate as many factors from the incident/accident equation as they can.Especially with regard to the international increase in runway incursions.I'm also getting the impression that stop bar lights will be utilised now more on a permanent basis rather than just in bad weather as another preventative measure.
Está servira para distraerle.
Thank you for that, saywhat. Have contacted the ATNS academy and will await results. The possible problem is that present location is UK but this is not insurmountable depending on the response from ATNS. It was very good of you to provide the information. One wonders if it is or will be an international qualification allowing for a sort of footloose, predatory type of aviation English vetting opportunity?
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Frenchglish....
Than you probably can fly to Paris and talk to ATC in English (but they speak French with own plane crews), you would fly to Madrid and talk to ATC in English (but they speak Spanish with own plane crews), you would fly to Moscow and talk to ATC in English (but they speak Russian with own plane crews)........why all the crews and ATCs in Berlin can speak English?????????
Are CAAs, ICAO going to change enything, hardly believe.
Quinn
Are CAAs, ICAO going to change enything, hardly believe.
Quinn
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Phoned Cranfield to book for the English Proficiency Interview and was told that CAA have changed their minds and if you can produce proof, i.e. a Matric Certificate or higher, with English as your first language then you do not have to take the test. They also said CAA was going to put this in their next AIC publication.
Does anyone know if the CAA passed (or has had) their FAA audit?
Does anyone know if the CAA passed (or has had) their FAA audit?
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Hi mates.What's this about english proficiency test?I'm a french speaker by birth and did all my studies in french except my flight training in english.English isn't a big deal i'm both fluent in writing and speaking.I'm a holder of a CPL/IR and ME and 4 my renewal do I need 2 pass an english test?Any info is appreciated
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cavortingcheetah,
I completed the rater course at ATNS about 2 weeks ago. It is an internationally recognised qualification and yes, there is some "moolah" to be made as there aren't many raters around just yet.
The CAA, as mentioned in previous posts, has been giving exemptions to those pilots who can prove at least Matric - english as a first language ( You'll get a Level 6 - never have to be re-tested). For those that have at least Matric - English as a second Language ( You'll get a Level 4 - need to be re-tested in 3 years time)
Hope this helps.
I completed the rater course at ATNS about 2 weeks ago. It is an internationally recognised qualification and yes, there is some "moolah" to be made as there aren't many raters around just yet.
The CAA, as mentioned in previous posts, has been giving exemptions to those pilots who can prove at least Matric - english as a first language ( You'll get a Level 6 - never have to be re-tested). For those that have at least Matric - English as a second Language ( You'll get a Level 4 - need to be re-tested in 3 years time)
Hope this helps.
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It really didn't answer my question tough.What would happen 2 those foreign pilots whom english isn't their language?I'm due 4 my CPL/IR renewal in a couple of months from now.Do I have 2 undergo an english test 2 b able 2 renew my South African Com?
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English Proficiency Test
I heard that a CAA representitive went to Montreal recently to get the up-to-date info on the check...as far as I know canadian pilots had to submit their English school exam passmark in order to be automatically approved? Let's see what the CAA have to say in the next AIC...
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Icao Language Levels - The Facts
I also went to Montreal earlier this month to attend the IALS2 and can confirm the sighting of the SACAA representative. In fact I work in a school with the person responsible for rewriting the ICAO Language manual (Doc 9835).
One of the main complaints at the conference was the lack of standards and international recognition or accreditation. I can emphatically state that ICAO does not accredit either schools or raters. There is no such thing as internationally recognized certification. That said, if the national authority of individual countries decides to approve raters and the ICAO level (4 to 6) is endorsed in the licence (by that national authority), that would then become recognized by receiving states (ie those states that the pilot visits whilst piloting his aeroplane.) At this stage, for example, an Angolan pilot could not go to Cranfield, be tested, and take his certificate back to the Angolan authority to have his licence endorsed (unless Cranfield has been approved by the Angolan authority.)
At this stage there isn't an internationally approved test - a couple of schools have produced their own (RMIT in Australia and Mayflower in the UK to name a couple). Most credible tests include listening to recorded traffic with some method of establishing comprehension of the content and then a simulation of an incident (engine failure, fire, unruly passenger, decompression, etc) to force the candidate to move from phraseology to plain English and back. The candidate is then assessed for pronunciation, structure (grammar), vocabulary, fluency, comprehension and interaction. Once assessed at level 6 ”expert” no further testing is required, level 5 is retested every 5 years and level 4 every 3 years. Whichever test is used, it would have to be acceptable to the national authority.
There are two acknowledged approaches to establishing levels. Firstly a less formal test for those people who have completed their pilot or ATC training in English (normally but not limited to English native speakers) and secondly a formal test for non-native speakers. The former is obviously the approach that the SACAA is following.
Believe me, as a teacher of Aviation English to French ATC, it is important for English speakers to become more aware of the use of decent, understandable English on frequency. If the non-English speakers can put an effort into attaining level 4 then the English speakers can at least use correct terminology and phraseology.
I will never forget the pilot reporting to Port Elizabeth Approach "estimating your's at ...... " and the ATC asking (sarcastically) if he was going to George! That said, I think South Africans are generally well spoken on air and certainly have a good reputation in French airspace.
French ramp inspectors will be checking licence endorsements for minimum level 4 from the 5 March 2008.
International language testing is not a get rich scheme - it is an important contribution to aviation safety.
Safe landings.
One of the main complaints at the conference was the lack of standards and international recognition or accreditation. I can emphatically state that ICAO does not accredit either schools or raters. There is no such thing as internationally recognized certification. That said, if the national authority of individual countries decides to approve raters and the ICAO level (4 to 6) is endorsed in the licence (by that national authority), that would then become recognized by receiving states (ie those states that the pilot visits whilst piloting his aeroplane.) At this stage, for example, an Angolan pilot could not go to Cranfield, be tested, and take his certificate back to the Angolan authority to have his licence endorsed (unless Cranfield has been approved by the Angolan authority.)
At this stage there isn't an internationally approved test - a couple of schools have produced their own (RMIT in Australia and Mayflower in the UK to name a couple). Most credible tests include listening to recorded traffic with some method of establishing comprehension of the content and then a simulation of an incident (engine failure, fire, unruly passenger, decompression, etc) to force the candidate to move from phraseology to plain English and back. The candidate is then assessed for pronunciation, structure (grammar), vocabulary, fluency, comprehension and interaction. Once assessed at level 6 ”expert” no further testing is required, level 5 is retested every 5 years and level 4 every 3 years. Whichever test is used, it would have to be acceptable to the national authority.
There are two acknowledged approaches to establishing levels. Firstly a less formal test for those people who have completed their pilot or ATC training in English (normally but not limited to English native speakers) and secondly a formal test for non-native speakers. The former is obviously the approach that the SACAA is following.
Believe me, as a teacher of Aviation English to French ATC, it is important for English speakers to become more aware of the use of decent, understandable English on frequency. If the non-English speakers can put an effort into attaining level 4 then the English speakers can at least use correct terminology and phraseology.
I will never forget the pilot reporting to Port Elizabeth Approach "estimating your's at ...... " and the ATC asking (sarcastically) if he was going to George! That said, I think South Africans are generally well spoken on air and certainly have a good reputation in French airspace.
French ramp inspectors will be checking licence endorsements for minimum level 4 from the 5 March 2008.
International language testing is not a get rich scheme - it is an important contribution to aviation safety.
Safe landings.
Last edited by lambert; 12th Jun 2007 at 13:01. Reason: CORRECTION TO LEVEL 4 RETESTING PERIODS
Join Date: May 2007
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From a pilot's point of view the Exam may be a bit annoying (actually its a massive pain in the *ss), but has anyone considered the positive effect it will have on the influx of Eastern European ATC's on the SA aviation scene?
As I see it, we are losing highly trained ATCs to the middle east market and inheriting controllers from former soviet block countries. It will at least ensure that local standards of communication are still met.
And to clarify:
1. I still disagree with the R650 for the exam and maintain it should be incorporated in the general radio licence exam.
2. If proven English first language is acceptable then what will the validation fee be?
As I see it, we are losing highly trained ATCs to the middle east market and inheriting controllers from former soviet block countries. It will at least ensure that local standards of communication are still met.
And to clarify:
1. I still disagree with the R650 for the exam and maintain it should be incorporated in the general radio licence exam.
2. If proven English first language is acceptable then what will the validation fee be?
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Non-anglophones Controlling In South Africa
Interesting that - in Europe with the Common European Licence on the horizon, the French will be forcing non-francophones to have at least a level 5 in French (whatever that is because the ICAO scale only applies to English) (as well as 4 in English) to be able to control in France (that's if the unions allow foreigners in in the first place!)
Would be interesting to know what the requirements are in the way of language levels for foreigners controlling in South Africa.
By the way R650 equates to about 65 euros which is the cost being bandied about in France - the legislation hasn't been finalized yet so it is not possible to be officially tested. There is one hell of a lot of Air France (and other) pilots to be completed by March 2008!
Would be interesting to know what the requirements are in the way of language levels for foreigners controlling in South Africa.
By the way R650 equates to about 65 euros which is the cost being bandied about in France - the legislation hasn't been finalized yet so it is not possible to be officially tested. There is one hell of a lot of Air France (and other) pilots to be completed by March 2008!
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English tests for South African pilots
Thought it was on PPrune that I first heard this rumour but can't find the thread now, despite my (inexpert) use of the search function. Anyone got any more details?
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Just got this email today, wonder how much it would have cost if it was not law? How the hell are you going to pass a flight test if you cant speak the damn language??? R650 for talking **** for 1/2 an hr? Immagine being paid R1300 per hr you fly, thats R130 000 Rand a month if you flew 100 hrs! time to ponder this over a cold beer.
Dog
Dog
Hi Guys
We have had so many enquiries from pilots with regard to the above test, that I thought I would email you all!
The EP test is compulsory for all pilots and is an ICAO requirement. You can obtain a temprorary exemption if you have a matric certificate in English as the home language.....which has to be presented to the CAA; however it is temporary and sooner or later the test has to be undertaken. The deadline for all tests is March 2008.
The test is oral, is recorded and saved for five years. It is a test in the form of a conversation involving normal everyday questions and chat, plus aviation english questions...such as answering ATC in a particular scenario. A Linguist and an aviation expert run the conversation and it takes about 30 minutes - 45 minutes depending on the level of the participant. I have attached the flyer explaining the rating levels. I trust this answers all questions.... we are running tests on two afternoons a week at the moment but are happy to raise that if there is a requirement.
Cost for the test is R650 ex VAT, and you need a passport photo for the certificate, which is taken to our CAA..
We have had so many enquiries from pilots with regard to the above test, that I thought I would email you all!
The EP test is compulsory for all pilots and is an ICAO requirement. You can obtain a temprorary exemption if you have a matric certificate in English as the home language.....which has to be presented to the CAA; however it is temporary and sooner or later the test has to be undertaken. The deadline for all tests is March 2008.
The test is oral, is recorded and saved for five years. It is a test in the form of a conversation involving normal everyday questions and chat, plus aviation english questions...such as answering ATC in a particular scenario. A Linguist and an aviation expert run the conversation and it takes about 30 minutes - 45 minutes depending on the level of the participant. I have attached the flyer explaining the rating levels. I trust this answers all questions.... we are running tests on two afternoons a week at the moment but are happy to raise that if there is a requirement.
Cost for the test is R650 ex VAT, and you need a passport photo for the certificate, which is taken to our CAA..
Kind regards,
