Salaries
Join Date: May 2007
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meat for the bones
Did not mean to upset you Hyena. I have always placed the welfare of my lessor placed collegues to the for. In other words (to make it simple for you) I have never sat left seat when I could advance a less experienced co-pilot. I have never accepted a charter as Lance when there was another pilot needing work, I have always done my best to help deserving pilots to find a job. I just think the issue of 1900's is a bit ridiculous, the captains aren't being asked to fly 747's or the tupperware equivalent. But as far as salaries go, when last did you go to your doctor and ask for a checkup? Last time I went to mine I was the only one in the room for a few minutes, alone, and had to pay a couple of hundred bucks.
If chaps want to go and fly 1900's with a cpl, good to them.
I hope that nobody else moderately thick took offense.
If chaps want to go and fly 1900's with a cpl, good to them.
I hope that nobody else moderately thick took offense.
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nice to get down to it
Thanks for the insult, Hyena, I still do not see where the issue lies. 1 Is the matter of flying the 1900 without an ATP, and I have clearly stated, do it or do it not at your own peril, but remember where your bread and butter lies. The other is the flying for love and not money. So where is the gripe?
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Vw Don't goooooooooooo!
Sorry Vw.
You started this thread, and I guess it may have been a bit hijacked by plunkwallas like me having my say, and digressing from the original question.
Here is my answer, and there may be a few chuckles afterwards or not: `No, R20 000,00' is not a bad salary to start negotiating for, bearing in mind that that you are still falling short of what should be a national average. Take time to think about the other plunkwallas who are trying to screw you out of a job by undercutting you.
Just remember, they will either end up dead or captains in airlines.
Have fun negotiating, and at the end of the day, thank God for unions.
You started this thread, and I guess it may have been a bit hijacked by plunkwallas like me having my say, and digressing from the original question.
Here is my answer, and there may be a few chuckles afterwards or not: `No, R20 000,00' is not a bad salary to start negotiating for, bearing in mind that that you are still falling short of what should be a national average. Take time to think about the other plunkwallas who are trying to screw you out of a job by undercutting you.
Just remember, they will either end up dead or captains in airlines.
Have fun negotiating, and at the end of the day, thank God for unions.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Why is it we cannot stand up and be counted, like surgeons (who only ever have 1 patient on the table at a time, compared to our pax lists) and earn a decent wage.
Face it guys, becoming a pilot is not in the same league as doctors or engineers. It is not even as expensive. My B.Eng cost me R150k 11 years ago. I then worked for R4500 per month (about R15k in now money).
By all means, negotiate for a fair wage, but keep in mind that if an airline capt of a 50 seater earns R40k per month to move (70 legs x ave 40 pax) 2800 pax per month, then your 1900 captain should earn (legs x ave load)/2800 x R40k. that might not be a living wage, but it is an economic reality. Obviously these values can be adjusted with ticket/contract income.
Join Date: May 2006
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well said suitcase, but what about the drive to the airport? does that still count as duty time? cos in that case we earn WAY less than we should, that drv to the a/p scares the c
ap out of me! 
Dog
ap out of me! Dog
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On the few occasions the environment is hostile we do earn our money.
Don't even bother trying to get ALPA to help you if you are not in an AIRLINE> .They are not interested in general aviation.
Have you ever tried using ALPA, CJ750? PM me if you need help.
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i hate a good point
dammit nugpot, i hate a good point being made. so saying i'll slink away with my tail between my legs.
suitcase, by hostile environment i was refering to the outside airtemp and O2 pressure and breeze in the cruise over a few tens of thousand feet. wouldn't like to step outside for a minute (like the chap who opened the door on the metavia Let410 because he wanted a bit of fresh air, lucky they're not pressurised), but you're right, sitting in the pressure hull with the heat on you don't really feel much and its not really that hard work.
suitcase, by hostile environment i was refering to the outside airtemp and O2 pressure and breeze in the cruise over a few tens of thousand feet. wouldn't like to step outside for a minute (like the chap who opened the door on the metavia Let410 because he wanted a bit of fresh air, lucky they're not pressurised), but you're right, sitting in the pressure hull with the heat on you don't really feel much and its not really that hard work.
Last edited by oerlikon; 13th May 2007 at 14:15. Reason: definition
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salary negotiations
Hi Vw
Being serious for a moment, I do know of people who pay over R20 000 a month to fly light turbines in SA, but they are few and far between. The trend in the country is for annual increases to be below a realistic rate. For instance, if the current official rate of inflation is 6%, in reality the cost of living is going up at a much more alarming rate and getting a 6% increase will eventually put you behind the drag curve. A mate of mine who lives down in Durban says that the freelance charter rate has only gone up this year after staying at the same rate (R1200 or R1.20 per k) for over 5 years! When the rate was put up, they didn't account for five years of inflation. Operators have a stranglehold on the industry and division among pilots always plays to their advantage. Just keep at it and oneday you will find the right job at the right salary. Its not easy, though, if you have a wife and kids.
Being serious for a moment, I do know of people who pay over R20 000 a month to fly light turbines in SA, but they are few and far between. The trend in the country is for annual increases to be below a realistic rate. For instance, if the current official rate of inflation is 6%, in reality the cost of living is going up at a much more alarming rate and getting a 6% increase will eventually put you behind the drag curve. A mate of mine who lives down in Durban says that the freelance charter rate has only gone up this year after staying at the same rate (R1200 or R1.20 per k) for over 5 years! When the rate was put up, they didn't account for five years of inflation. Operators have a stranglehold on the industry and division among pilots always plays to their advantage. Just keep at it and oneday you will find the right job at the right salary. Its not easy, though, if you have a wife and kids.
Last edited by oerlikon; 14th May 2007 at 06:22. Reason: spelling
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Thats actually what I meant with the post, how come people try deffend them self before looking at the real problem at hand and try and keep their employees happy
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The one thing I have learn't over the years is that companies don't care. Essentially the upper management IS the company and the employees are just the tools. If a cheaper tool comes along the company will buy into it. See, the guys on top want to buy Porsche Cayennes, but they can't do it if the guys on the bottom want to by new Toyotas. Its the sad truth on the matter. The only thing you can do is look after number one. Prostitute your loyalties to the highest bidder. The company won't hesitate to get rid of you if they can save a buck, so don't hesitate to leave them if you can make a buck elsewhere.
This attitude sucks, I know, but as the T-shirt says: I work for money - if you want loyalty get a dog.
This attitude sucks, I know, but as the T-shirt says: I work for money - if you want loyalty get a dog.
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Its the mighty law of supply and demand. Why do they pay a guy with 2000 hrs and no ATP less than R20k?
Cause they can.
As i said in an earlier post, stick with it, things are changing quickly.
P.S. GET THAT ATP. no left seat and big dosh without it!!!!
Cause they can.
As i said in an earlier post, stick with it, things are changing quickly.
P.S. GET THAT ATP. no left seat and big dosh without it!!!!
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Avi8tor is right, the ATP is the key to the airlines and the eventual left seat, but you may have to take a drop in salary when you start out as a F/O. If you're in a position to do that, go for it.
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hi all. I have been reading Pprune for years and decided to join - you might want to say what am I posting on here for but here goes ......
I have wanted to fly ever since I can remember taking my first trial lesson some 13 years ago, however never had the money for training nor University - so I decided to head to the UK where I worked as a barman, waiter, temp bank clerk and now I have been trading equities on the LSE for close to 8 years.
My day consists of waking-up at 04:45 to start my day 'chained to the desk' by 6am and do not walk out of here till gone 17:30 -18:00. The stress levels are horrendous some days and have had shingles and stress related conditions at the age of 32!! I have a flat in CPT, JHB, a house in London and can even afford to send back money for my mom who has absolutely no savings or pension - the earning in this job is v/good and end of year bonuses are embaressing but everyday, sitting at my desk watching the 06:35 SAA coming in from JHB/CPT or any airline on approach to Heathrow, I have this empty feeling inside and a burning desire to try the trade of becoming ANY sort of fixed wing pilot.
What I am trying to say is I have been away from SA for close on 10 years and am coming back to get my comm etc etc. I have been on both sides of the poverty line, believe me money helps but doesn't make getting up every morning doing something your heart is not committed to any easier -NO MATTER WHAT THE SALARY IS .....
Can I ask the experienced lot - once I have finished my training in SA are the chances of being hired as a pilot far between / very few and far between / or possible?
any suggestions appreciated. Regards
I have wanted to fly ever since I can remember taking my first trial lesson some 13 years ago, however never had the money for training nor University - so I decided to head to the UK where I worked as a barman, waiter, temp bank clerk and now I have been trading equities on the LSE for close to 8 years.
My day consists of waking-up at 04:45 to start my day 'chained to the desk' by 6am and do not walk out of here till gone 17:30 -18:00. The stress levels are horrendous some days and have had shingles and stress related conditions at the age of 32!! I have a flat in CPT, JHB, a house in London and can even afford to send back money for my mom who has absolutely no savings or pension - the earning in this job is v/good and end of year bonuses are embaressing but everyday, sitting at my desk watching the 06:35 SAA coming in from JHB/CPT or any airline on approach to Heathrow, I have this empty feeling inside and a burning desire to try the trade of becoming ANY sort of fixed wing pilot.
What I am trying to say is I have been away from SA for close on 10 years and am coming back to get my comm etc etc. I have been on both sides of the poverty line, believe me money helps but doesn't make getting up every morning doing something your heart is not committed to any easier -NO MATTER WHAT THE SALARY IS .....
Can I ask the experienced lot - once I have finished my training in SA are the chances of being hired as a pilot far between / very few and far between / or possible?
any suggestions appreciated. Regards
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I dont believe a waiter earns R15000 after tax in SA. I have a friend that just finished studying for accountant earning R13 000. South African Salaries are bad. Reseptionist you will earn R4000/month. I know Solenta ATR captains earn R48 000/ month tax free. Thats not bad.
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THESTROMS.
The job market for pilots worldwide is the best I've seen in 31 years of aviation. And it's bound to get better. There are airlines in the Far East and Middle East that are ordering aircraft from Boeing and Airbus - and have no idea where they are going to get the crew from! The expat pilot market is booming! Bottom line is - highest payer will get the crew. The situation has been particularly good for south African pilots. Lots of contract work in Africa giving good experience on multi-engine, multi-crew, turbine aircraft. A good start for getting into the smaller airlines and working your way up.
I can give you lots of detail on these aspects. PM me and I'll put you in touch with the right people. Life's too short to be doing something you aren't passionate about.
The job market for pilots worldwide is the best I've seen in 31 years of aviation. And it's bound to get better. There are airlines in the Far East and Middle East that are ordering aircraft from Boeing and Airbus - and have no idea where they are going to get the crew from! The expat pilot market is booming! Bottom line is - highest payer will get the crew. The situation has been particularly good for south African pilots. Lots of contract work in Africa giving good experience on multi-engine, multi-crew, turbine aircraft. A good start for getting into the smaller airlines and working your way up.
I can give you lots of detail on these aspects. PM me and I'll put you in touch with the right people. Life's too short to be doing something you aren't passionate about.
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Can I ask the experienced lot - once I have finished my training in SA are the chances of being hired as a pilot far between / very few and far between / or possible? any suggestions appreciated. Regards
There is a lot of opportunities out there. 20 year old co-pilots expecting huge salaries are just not realistic. Do your licences, do your time and get into the big time. SAX should be taking another 20 FO's soon and everybody (except SAA) is employing. Times are good for now.