43 Air School for a Kenyan
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Oh!
The big guy grinning - that's racism in my book. The Qn is not whether if he'd been black would musaQ still have cried racism. The Qn is would musaQ have been treated differently if he was white? Me think 'the big guy' would have been sad he didnt see musaQ through his training and not 'grin' gladly hoping the company sends a replacement soon. Being human precedes economics.
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ok so now help me out here - calling someone a monkey is bad / calling someone a dog is fine????? haucome?
hang on I forgot, there are certain words that are fine when uttered by black mouths but the same words cannot be said by white mouths....get real.
Why is it you guys like calling each other n166er but by jove you get all restless when anyone else uses the term. Now how does that work? Or is it part of spin doctoring any event into some possible racial hoo-haa that might get you the sympathy/affirmative vote?
Just help me understand please.
hang on I forgot, there are certain words that are fine when uttered by black mouths but the same words cannot be said by white mouths....get real.
Why is it you guys like calling each other n166er but by jove you get all restless when anyone else uses the term. Now how does that work? Or is it part of spin doctoring any event into some possible racial hoo-haa that might get you the sympathy/affirmative vote?
Just help me understand please.
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MQ, this actually sounds to me as perceptions, cultural differences and personality clash rather than being racist. This instructor might have let the strict professional training profile slip and he made comments that he thought to be "funny / cool" but was perceived as "racist". Could you possibly take colour out of the equation and just think that he might call all his pupils “monkeys” (a term of endearment??) and the “one of their own” could actually be referring to “pupils”. There is no one as blind as the person that does not want to see”. Always look for the bigger picture rather than the conservative, one sided point of view.
The SAA cadet pilot scheme incumbents were also sent to 43 for training and believe you me, SAA would not have tolerated any racist behaviour.
MQ, you seem to be intelligent thus focus of the flying thing, become the best you can be and forget banging the “racist” drum. You can quickly pick the people (pilots) that got to their current positions by banging the “racist” drum, taking the easy road. You will only get so far that way and then you will end up a smoking hole in the ground taking a lot of innocent “pax” with you. Read some of the posts again and you will see that you are being incited by “pilots????” with their own narrow minded perceptions and views to think everything is about race in SA. Keep an open mind and never ever believe you can actually know what another person might be thinking. Doing that you are imprinting your own personal thoughts on that person, playing judge, jury and executioner in one go.
E
IRP, you know some folks walk past a book about SA or they see a movie about a small portion of SA history consisting mostly of one sided propaganda and suddenly they are experts about SA politics and history.
The SAA cadet pilot scheme incumbents were also sent to 43 for training and believe you me, SAA would not have tolerated any racist behaviour.
MQ, you seem to be intelligent thus focus of the flying thing, become the best you can be and forget banging the “racist” drum. You can quickly pick the people (pilots) that got to their current positions by banging the “racist” drum, taking the easy road. You will only get so far that way and then you will end up a smoking hole in the ground taking a lot of innocent “pax” with you. Read some of the posts again and you will see that you are being incited by “pilots????” with their own narrow minded perceptions and views to think everything is about race in SA. Keep an open mind and never ever believe you can actually know what another person might be thinking. Doing that you are imprinting your own personal thoughts on that person, playing judge, jury and executioner in one go.
E
IRP, you know some folks walk past a book about SA or they see a movie about a small portion of SA history consisting mostly of one sided propaganda and suddenly they are experts about SA politics and history.
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get real pirate
"every dog has it's day" is a proverb meaning what goes around comes around. nobody called anyone a dog! Your ignorance shows.
Monkey and nigger are racial slurrs - dont pretend not to know - one hints at primitivity the other is deregatory reminiscent of slavery. dont turn this round so you are the victim.
If I may ask an honest question, does anyone know of a white washed from 43 and what were the circumstances? The fiery ex43 would come in handy here. Be frank and if the truth has hit you, let us know.
Monkey and nigger are racial slurrs - dont pretend not to know - one hints at primitivity the other is deregatory reminiscent of slavery. dont turn this round so you are the victim.
If I may ask an honest question, does anyone know of a white washed from 43 and what were the circumstances? The fiery ex43 would come in handy here. Be frank and if the truth has hit you, let us know.
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LEX44
"If I may ask an honest question, does anyone know of a white washed from 43"
Oh yes, 43 had its share of white washed pupils, more than you would care to know.
"and what were the circumstances?"
Passed exams but battled with basic a/c handling. Transferred to another school, got his PPL, I went to his funeral
It all depends on the circumstances and the context in which you call a person a monkey and the state and maturity of mind in which you receive that word. Seems that if you only want to see what you want to see there is nothing nobody can do!!!
E
"If I may ask an honest question, does anyone know of a white washed from 43"
Oh yes, 43 had its share of white washed pupils, more than you would care to know.
"and what were the circumstances?"
Passed exams but battled with basic a/c handling. Transferred to another school, got his PPL, I went to his funeral
It all depends on the circumstances and the context in which you call a person a monkey and the state and maturity of mind in which you receive that word. Seems that if you only want to see what you want to see there is nothing nobody can do!!!
E
Está servira para distraerle.
If one might be permitted to don the ante bellum hat with cockade for a moment, the following thoughts, whilst not exactly springing to the mental forefront, do sort of permeate the old hippocampus or whatever.
(That's more or less US Civil War, in a sweeping sort of way,to the uneducated).
Aeroplanes and automobiles were, for all practical purposes, invented in the States.
Those who originally drove passengers around in automobiles were called chauffeurs and were almost universally of a colour less than white, even sometimes of a mustardy mix.
In the beginning, those who drove aeroplanes around were almost universally pale or grey, sometimes quite sickly, in complexion and were known as pilots.
Modern aeroplanes have become simple and easy to fly. Those who pilot them are often known as drivers.
Drivers and chauffeurs are the same thing in the simple little minds of the passengers. They are system operators.
Therefore all those who operate the systems of modern day aircraft should be black.
This philosophy raises interesting questions concerning inherited rights and meritocracy. Perhaps when one has more time, a discourse on the assassinative attributes these aspects might be forthcoming?
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E,
sorry to hear about your 'friend'. By sensationalizing the case you get sympathy not real concern.
Did he have solo hours from 43? Are we to assume he died from a plane crash and it was pilot error not mechanics or ...? What does this say of the second school or the pilots who've come out of it? Sub-standard? Facts please!
And yes, monkey chants are demeaning. This is a favourite of european fans to taunt black football stars. FIFA hasnt endorsed it the last time i checked.
sorry to hear about your 'friend'. By sensationalizing the case you get sympathy not real concern.
Did he have solo hours from 43? Are we to assume he died from a plane crash and it was pilot error not mechanics or ...? What does this say of the second school or the pilots who've come out of it? Sub-standard? Facts please!
And yes, monkey chants are demeaning. This is a favourite of european fans to taunt black football stars. FIFA hasnt endorsed it the last time i checked.
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Only just started reading this post. Obviously the guy wasnt good enough and didnt make the grade. 43 maintains the highest standard attainable. Funny how you always get a better result when someone has worked for something instead of just having it handed to them on a plate.
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Interesting thread so far, has any one considered the sponsors guide lines to 43rd. A lot of sponsors set out guide lines which require that certain standards be met with in a certain amount of time with in the training schedule. This is done to avoid money being flushed away because the candidate can,t land an plane and he gets to 30hrs before going solo. It is a bit of a blow to the ego that this cannot be achieved and that the sponsor has closed the cheque book on him!.
.
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thats what I said, the guidelines for being washed are normally stipulated by the contractor > in this case KQ. 43 only enforces it. They cannot afford to send back home who cannot hack the required levels STIPULATED BY THE SPONSOR. It will reflect extremely poorly on them as an ATO.
So how do you avoid that situation? You wash.
So how do you avoid that situation? You wash.
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Seen it all!!!
43 may have a good rep out there but on the ground things are not that pretty. Personal insecurities may play a part in how persons react. SA might have its history but why does a kenyan get to be drawn in it.
What's the ideal situation when an airline assigns you some students to train? YOU SIMPLY TRAIN THEM - within acceptable limits of course, not intimidate them till they are so scared to fly. Do this OR ELSE .... doesnt wash. You cannot play the comapny against the students. That's not an ideal environment for students to fly.
Where else does an instructor tell you that your flying is ok but recommends something else to the CFI?
Is being two faced acceptable in this career?
And can a senior Instructor judge your flying without actually flying with you?
Isnt there a limit on how many instructors a student may have in a stage?
Is an instructor for almost every other lesson acceptable?
Arent prejudices based on colour best kept to oneself and lessons simply administered regardless?
On second thought do those prejudices disqualify an instructor from administering the lessons?
Is it possible for two different instructors to have differing opinions on a student's ability to fly - (one has no problem and the other is disgruntled)?
Whose opinion counts in the end if the student agrees with the former(majority rule!! Ha!)?
If there needs to be a third opinion who should be billed for the flight?
If the third opinion agrees with the former can we conclude that the latter is biased?
Is it fair for instructors to build hours at a student's cost since he's company sponsored and doesnt pay for them personally - 'read redo lessons unnecessarily'?
Can you unlearn flying?
If a student has this many solo hours and is this good can he 'slip' suddenly?
Do you need to wash students to 'show how high your standards are'?
Arent standards judged by how good those who make it through are but not simply how many make it through?
Can a student judge his flying from comaprison with others at the same stage - 'pax'?
Shouldnt one be told why he is washed?
Can the indefensible still be defended?
What's the ideal situation when an airline assigns you some students to train? YOU SIMPLY TRAIN THEM - within acceptable limits of course, not intimidate them till they are so scared to fly. Do this OR ELSE .... doesnt wash. You cannot play the comapny against the students. That's not an ideal environment for students to fly.
Where else does an instructor tell you that your flying is ok but recommends something else to the CFI?
Is being two faced acceptable in this career?
And can a senior Instructor judge your flying without actually flying with you?
Isnt there a limit on how many instructors a student may have in a stage?
Is an instructor for almost every other lesson acceptable?
Arent prejudices based on colour best kept to oneself and lessons simply administered regardless?
On second thought do those prejudices disqualify an instructor from administering the lessons?
Is it possible for two different instructors to have differing opinions on a student's ability to fly - (one has no problem and the other is disgruntled)?
Whose opinion counts in the end if the student agrees with the former(majority rule!! Ha!)?
If there needs to be a third opinion who should be billed for the flight?
If the third opinion agrees with the former can we conclude that the latter is biased?
Is it fair for instructors to build hours at a student's cost since he's company sponsored and doesnt pay for them personally - 'read redo lessons unnecessarily'?
Can you unlearn flying?
If a student has this many solo hours and is this good can he 'slip' suddenly?
Do you need to wash students to 'show how high your standards are'?
Arent standards judged by how good those who make it through are but not simply how many make it through?
Can a student judge his flying from comaprison with others at the same stage - 'pax'?
Shouldnt one be told why he is washed?
Can the indefensible still be defended?
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All I can say is that 43 managment and staff take a vested interest in their students and want them to pass but they dont push people through if they cant meet a certain standard. Obviously you didnt meet the standard. Its nothing personal or racist or what ever other reason you trying to find to justify your failure. Obviously flying isnt your thing.
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onehotf,
Am not justifying anything. Simply put if you are good nobody can take that away. Like i said - been there, done that. 'The standards' you claim to know were unknown to any of us. Simple task - fly your lessons. How difficult can that be?
Am not justifying anything. Simply put if you are good nobody can take that away. Like i said - been there, done that. 'The standards' you claim to know were unknown to any of us. Simple task - fly your lessons. How difficult can that be?
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No Way
Onehotflyer, it is not fair to bluntly tell MusaQ that he did not meet the standard.
Do not jump the gun here because you have never flwon with the fella.....
See when you make remarks like that, I cannot help but associate you with the one instructor that MusaQ mentioned...."the one that judges your flying before he even flies with you". And may I ask, what makes you think that flying isn't his thing?
Do not jump the gun here because you have never flwon with the fella.....
See when you make remarks like that, I cannot help but associate you with the one instructor that MusaQ mentioned...."the one that judges your flying before he even flies with you". And may I ask, what makes you think that flying isn't his thing?
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Well thats the only reason why he would have been told to hit the road. Having been to 43 and I go back as often as I can, I know that that would be the only reason why he didnt make it. If he had to fly with other instructors to get their opinion then he obviously was that good. No use making excuses for him. We cant all be good at everything, im sure he will find his calling somewhere else and the aviation industry will rejoice when he does.
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I think that 43 is over-rated and they over-rate themselves - yes I've been there. I've seen more than one guy (sponsored and private) get washed under dubious circumstances and continue their flying elsewhere. 90% of those guys are now flying for various S.A. companies airlines and contract, as I keep in touch with them. That's just my observation. 43 is not the end-all and be-all of training.
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Well they are not the only one but I have dealt with other training schools in S.Africa and the UK and none of them came close to 43. Maybe they are more expensive but then at the end of the day you pay for what u get.
There were a few guys turned away whilst I was there also which I think is a good thing. Why keep on taking a parent or a companies hard earned cash, spending hours training someone who is always going to be mediocre. All they would be doing is giving them a licence to go and kill themselves or themselves and a whole lot of people.
There were a few guys turned away whilst I was there also which I think is a good thing. Why keep on taking a parent or a companies hard earned cash, spending hours training someone who is always going to be mediocre. All they would be doing is giving them a licence to go and kill themselves or themselves and a whole lot of people.
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Ouch!
OHT,
What are you smoking? Generalisations! Guess the indefensible can still be defended. Same way the UK did lend support to the Apartheid by refusing to impose sanctions - they could see nothing wrong. We all now know there was something wrong in the end. 43 maybe isnt all it's crapped out to be.
Somebody should be told why they are washed.
If mQ didnt cause an accident on 'this many solo hours' who is oht to predict he will once he gets his licence? Denying racism? Yourself you cant be a victim there.
What are you smoking? Generalisations! Guess the indefensible can still be defended. Same way the UK did lend support to the Apartheid by refusing to impose sanctions - they could see nothing wrong. We all now know there was something wrong in the end. 43 maybe isnt all it's crapped out to be.
Somebody should be told why they are washed.
If mQ didnt cause an accident on 'this many solo hours' who is oht to predict he will once he gets his licence? Denying racism? Yourself you cant be a victim there.