Renewing SA Licence for expats - new development
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Renewing SA Licence for expats - new development
I thought I'd pass on my experience this week in trying to renew my SA ATPL using a foreign renewal process. I've been doing this since the mid-90's and the goal-posts have moved on occasion & they've just shifted again so here's the latest. Hey, that's the CAA's perogative but forewarned is forearmed and will reduce your frustration.
I recently did an FAA renewal Proficiency Check on an airline-type aircraft. This check and the Class One medical certificate that I submitted is sufficient to the FAA for the renewal of my US licence. The training requirements pertaining to the training and checking received are all covered under Part 61 of the US FAR’s and the requirements for the FAA certified doctor are obviously laid out to him in his regulations.
It was previously my understanding (and experience) that as a SA expat resident and working abroad, that I could renew my SA licence using acceptable foreign renewals but that if I ever wanted to use my SA licence again that I would need to do a Proficiency Check using a SA DE and conduct a full SA medical. This is no longer the case. I have it on verbal authority from a senior manager at the SA CAA (yesterday) that this renewal now provides a fully usable SA licence. But they've changed the requirements to satisfy that privilege.
Seems like they were quite happy with the Proficiency Check which was conducted by the FAA; my caution relates to the additional medical requirements. The SA CAA require a full audiogram and a comprehensive lung-function test to be submitted in addition to the full doctor's report pursuant to the issue of your FAA Class One medical, as well as the ECG print-out from your ECG test. Without all of that you're not going to get it done.
And don't forget, you need to get all of this to the CAA within two months of conducting your Proficiency Check ride.
There are many SA guys out there who have let their original licences lapse. With additional, new requirements to keep the old licence "ticking over" I guess there's going be a lot of guys saying "screw it, I'll never use it again." I certainly scratch my head & wonder if it's all worth it. But because I'm a SA citizen I can't let it lapse & then apply for a validation of my US or JAA licence when I want to come back one day.
I'd like to emphasize that in my dealings with the CAA this week they have been extremely courteous and polite in the conduct of this bureaucratic process. And let no-one tell me the goal-posts haven't been moving; I have over ten years of first-hand experience.
4HP
I recently did an FAA renewal Proficiency Check on an airline-type aircraft. This check and the Class One medical certificate that I submitted is sufficient to the FAA for the renewal of my US licence. The training requirements pertaining to the training and checking received are all covered under Part 61 of the US FAR’s and the requirements for the FAA certified doctor are obviously laid out to him in his regulations.
It was previously my understanding (and experience) that as a SA expat resident and working abroad, that I could renew my SA licence using acceptable foreign renewals but that if I ever wanted to use my SA licence again that I would need to do a Proficiency Check using a SA DE and conduct a full SA medical. This is no longer the case. I have it on verbal authority from a senior manager at the SA CAA (yesterday) that this renewal now provides a fully usable SA licence. But they've changed the requirements to satisfy that privilege.
Seems like they were quite happy with the Proficiency Check which was conducted by the FAA; my caution relates to the additional medical requirements. The SA CAA require a full audiogram and a comprehensive lung-function test to be submitted in addition to the full doctor's report pursuant to the issue of your FAA Class One medical, as well as the ECG print-out from your ECG test. Without all of that you're not going to get it done.
And don't forget, you need to get all of this to the CAA within two months of conducting your Proficiency Check ride.
There are many SA guys out there who have let their original licences lapse. With additional, new requirements to keep the old licence "ticking over" I guess there's going be a lot of guys saying "screw it, I'll never use it again." I certainly scratch my head & wonder if it's all worth it. But because I'm a SA citizen I can't let it lapse & then apply for a validation of my US or JAA licence when I want to come back one day.
I'd like to emphasize that in my dealings with the CAA this week they have been extremely courteous and polite in the conduct of this bureaucratic process. And let no-one tell me the goal-posts haven't been moving; I have over ten years of first-hand experience.
4HP
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Renewal
4HP,
I renewed my RSA ATPL late last year and experienced exactly the same thing.
I presented an original, signed and stamped LPC and OPC check form from present employer. I went to SA and did a full medical with audiogram and lungfunction, (Not a cheap exercise), and submitted all the paperwork. (Summaries etc).
Very courteous and efficient, one hour later I had a valid ATPL again. at that stage it was said I still would have to fly a test with a RSA DE if I wanted to exercise my rights in SA.
Question: how long to let it lapse before repaeting this process. In the past I've always renewed after 18 months. AmI spending too much?
Thanks SA CAA
I renewed my RSA ATPL late last year and experienced exactly the same thing.
I presented an original, signed and stamped LPC and OPC check form from present employer. I went to SA and did a full medical with audiogram and lungfunction, (Not a cheap exercise), and submitted all the paperwork. (Summaries etc).
Very courteous and efficient, one hour later I had a valid ATPL again. at that stage it was said I still would have to fly a test with a RSA DE if I wanted to exercise my rights in SA.
Question: how long to let it lapse before repaeting this process. In the past I've always renewed after 18 months. AmI spending too much?
Thanks SA CAA
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Can someone tell me how I stand with my situation.
I did have a SA CPL., but it has lapsed, but less than 3 years.
I am flying on a UK issued JAR ATPL at the moment.
Can I somehow keep my SA licence valid without incurring huge costs?
Is there perhaps some way of validating my JAR licence or keeping SA one current on the strength of JAR one?
I did have a SA CPL., but it has lapsed, but less than 3 years.
I am flying on a UK issued JAR ATPL at the moment.
Can I somehow keep my SA licence valid without incurring huge costs?
Is there perhaps some way of validating my JAR licence or keeping SA one current on the strength of JAR one?
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Nope, not as far as I see it - you can use your JAR PC but you need to do the full medical to the SA CAA's standard. Then you send the whole lot with a renewal form (off their website) to Joburg. Somehow you've got to get an instructor to certify that your hours are correct - I sent my logbook but even then I had to find a Grade II or better (doesn't matter if he's never met you) to certify your hours 
The good news is that it's only 350 South African Rand - still good value.
And Sir Osis is correct - if you want to exercise the privileges of your SA licence you'll still have to do a PC with a DE. Which makes a mockery of why they want you to exceed the requirements of either a FAA or a JAA medical just to renew it without being able to use it. Common sense dictates that they should accept an ICAO First Class medical (as they used to) when a foreign licence holder renews his SA licence and then require a full SA standard medical and the PC with the DE before you can use the licence again.
Do I think that common sense will prevail?
4HP
The good news is that it's only 350 South African Rand - still good value. And Sir Osis is correct - if you want to exercise the privileges of your SA licence you'll still have to do a PC with a DE. Which makes a mockery of why they want you to exceed the requirements of either a FAA or a JAA medical just to renew it without being able to use it. Common sense dictates that they should accept an ICAO First Class medical (as they used to) when a foreign licence holder renews his SA licence and then require a full SA standard medical and the PC with the DE before you can use the licence again.
Do I think that common sense will prevail?
4HP
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Smoking socks
4HP.
..
Courtesy........Well HP, I have it on good authority that a certain individual sent his wife into the CAA to re-validate his licence and she was still there after TWO (YES, 2), days and eventually walked out with nothing.
Further more, if this certain individual's wife gave her side of the story, it might become un-printable.(dont woryy, this person is very much a lady, but after TWO days of getting pushed from one side to the other, walking her legs off from one building to another, getting told a different version every time, I think her english might become debateable).
So please sir, get your facts right about courtesy before printing.
Further more, if the idiot that sent his poor wife in to validate his licence reads this, Boet, your wife deserves a medal for her patience and persaverance, and you definitely need to take your wife out for supper AND bring her breakfast in bed for at least a month.
Eisch, what some wives have to go thru to satisfy their husbands.
Goffel by the sea.
..
Courtesy........Well HP, I have it on good authority that a certain individual sent his wife into the CAA to re-validate his licence and she was still there after TWO (YES, 2), days and eventually walked out with nothing.
Further more, if this certain individual's wife gave her side of the story, it might become un-printable.(dont woryy, this person is very much a lady, but after TWO days of getting pushed from one side to the other, walking her legs off from one building to another, getting told a different version every time, I think her english might become debateable).
So please sir, get your facts right about courtesy before printing.
Further more, if the idiot that sent his poor wife in to validate his licence reads this, Boet, your wife deserves a medal for her patience and persaverance, and you definitely need to take your wife out for supper AND bring her breakfast in bed for at least a month.
Eisch, what some wives have to go thru to satisfy their husbands.
Goffel by the sea.
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Renewal....
Goffel,
I can only surmise that the said individual did not do his homework and was not prepared for the process. (Shame on him, then he sends his wife to put up with the garbage????
That only works in the UAE where it can greatly expedite a process by sticking the missus in the Ladies queue. They are generally shorter)
The trick with CAA is to have all your ducks in a row before you arrive. I dealt with a very helpfull and efficient lady by the name of Claudia via e-mail and she gave me a complete list of all requirements and documentation to be presented. she also replied to my emails very promptly.
I made sure that I had covered all the points she mentioned and when I arrived, voila, no problem and no running around.
( Maybe I just caught them on a good day, but it pays to act like a boy scout: Be Prepared.)
I can only surmise that the said individual did not do his homework and was not prepared for the process. (Shame on him, then he sends his wife to put up with the garbage????
That only works in the UAE where it can greatly expedite a process by sticking the missus in the Ladies queue. They are generally shorter)The trick with CAA is to have all your ducks in a row before you arrive. I dealt with a very helpfull and efficient lady by the name of Claudia via e-mail and she gave me a complete list of all requirements and documentation to be presented. she also replied to my emails very promptly.
I made sure that I had covered all the points she mentioned and when I arrived, voila, no problem and no running around.
( Maybe I just caught them on a good day, but it pays to act like a boy scout: Be Prepared.)
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I agree - didn't do my homework & the requirements had changed since I tried to do it last year - that didn't work out beacuse when I applied it was more than two months since my PC - (less than three months but more than two - rules is rules you know!).
The main reason I launched this warning was in an effort to caution others trying the same renewal process to "get your ducks in a row" as Sir Osis indicates.
4HP
The main reason I launched this warning was in an effort to caution others trying the same renewal process to "get your ducks in a row" as Sir Osis indicates.
4HP
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goal posts do move
Sir Osis.
Oh believe me the said person did do his homework, it was just the goal posts that were moved every time he complied with what they asked.
But you must remember that there are two sets of goal posts.....move one to suite yourself, the other also gets moved to suite the other side.
I think someone might just be in for a shock now.
Goffel by the sea.
Oh believe me the said person did do his homework, it was just the goal posts that were moved every time he complied with what they asked.
But you must remember that there are two sets of goal posts.....move one to suite yourself, the other also gets moved to suite the other side.
I think someone might just be in for a shock now.
Goffel by the sea.
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hey guys, remind me please how long your atp can be lapsed before you have to start writing exams again?
something like 3 and you have to write airlaw etc, and 5 maybe you have to rewrite all exams?
something like 3 and you have to write airlaw etc, and 5 maybe you have to rewrite all exams?
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South African CAA Licence Woes
Anybody else got problems keeping their SA ATP/CPL current or going while working outside South Africa? Have contacted CAA on numerous occasions, but no reply from them - not even a peep.
My problem is that nobody at CAA seems to know or care what the procedure is to keep your license valid. The FAA licensed drivers just submit a medical and voilà, their licenses are kept going.
I will have to rock up at their offices with 3 different medicals, a "doos" full of logbooks and a wallet full off cash. Will be a painful experience, but hopefully it will be easier this time!
My problem is that nobody at CAA seems to know or care what the procedure is to keep your license valid.
The FAA licensed drivers just submit a medical and voilà, their licenses are kept going.I will have to rock up at their offices with 3 different medicals, a "doos" full of logbooks and a wallet full off cash. Will be a painful experience, but hopefully it will be easier this time!
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Sir osis of the river - please supply us with this fantastic individual at CAA by the name of Claudia. Sounds to good to be true.
The people that I deal with is not interested in helping or supplying me with any info. Regards
The people that I deal with is not interested in helping or supplying me with any info. Regards
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hey sandman, tried to get hold of Claudia, not in office, next best thing speak to Hildegarde. Take logbook, do summary for last 6 months, take PC within 60 days, download renewal form off CAA website and if possible to make things a whole lot easier get a SA instructor to sign your summary and renewal form, pay the bucks, and have a valid medical when you do it. On the medical side, a ICAO standard med should be good, according to the AIC`s but then still has to be approved by IAM. Best just to get one done in SA, then a lot less hassel. ie ECG and all that stuff must also be valid.
I am operating into JNB on Mon, going to do the renwal, lets see how it goes
may the force be with you!!!!
I am operating into JNB on Mon, going to do the renwal, lets see how it goes
may the force be with you!!!!
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hey sandman, tried to get hold of Claudia, not in office, next best thing speak to Hildegarde. Take logbook, do summary for last 6 months, take PC within 60 days, download renewal form off CAA website and if possible to make things a whole lot easier get a SA instructor to sign your summary and renewal form, pay the bucks, and have a valid medical when you do it. On the medical side, a ICAO standard med should be good, according to the AIC`s but then still has to be approved by IAM. Best just to get one done in SA, then a lot less hassel. ie ECG and all that stuff must also be valid.
I am operating into JNB on Mon, going to do the renwal, lets see how it goes
may the force be with you!!!!
I am operating into JNB on Mon, going to do the renwal, lets see how it goes
may the force be with you!!!!
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Claudia is the One
Claudia can be contacted via email on [email protected]
She is helpful and honest in her approach.
She will give you her direct contact once you are in touch.
She is helpful and honest in her approach.
She will give you her direct contact once you are in touch.
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I have been suffering from Establishment Blues since the late 70’s, thanks to the R.Robin… / R. van Zyl, and gang from that era.
I am always a critic of incompetent politicians and others that keep on forgetting they are working for the people who pay their salaries.
But I am glad to say that renewing my licence the last 7 years from abroad is getting easier every time, as long as you have a couple admin issues sorted before hand.
Asian Eagle is correct with the detail he provided and I am sure he will report back that it was straight forward.
The only point that I found different was that C.A.A. do not except all ICAO medicals, as C.A.A. still require a stress ECG, where as some countries do a resting ECG. So depending on age and history it might just be worth your while to do a medical in S.A. It is relatively cheap compare to some countries.
Cluadia and Marietjie Haasbroek is always willing to help.
I am always a critic of incompetent politicians and others that keep on forgetting they are working for the people who pay their salaries.
But I am glad to say that renewing my licence the last 7 years from abroad is getting easier every time, as long as you have a couple admin issues sorted before hand.
Asian Eagle is correct with the detail he provided and I am sure he will report back that it was straight forward.
The only point that I found different was that C.A.A. do not except all ICAO medicals, as C.A.A. still require a stress ECG, where as some countries do a resting ECG. So depending on age and history it might just be worth your while to do a medical in S.A. It is relatively cheap compare to some countries.
Cluadia and Marietjie Haasbroek is always willing to help.
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ok boys, and maybe some girls.
It was suprisingly easy
My non SA, Hong Kong ICAO medical was accepted, by IAM, CAA had doubts, but once IAM faxed them their records it was accepted. Though I did have to push the issue a little and remind them of what their own AIC said. But be sure to have it sent to IAM in advance if you can. Money paid, they had a quick look at my HK licence, took my PC and signed renewal form (signed by a local GRD2 instructor) and 45 minutes and one of the most digusting cups of coffee later
, I had my licence.
now I are kiff pielot!!!!
Also, I found out, you can put your foriegn A/C type onto your SA licence, will cost R900 and you need to apply to the CAA for an exemption with some sort of motivation letter. Eiiysh ! Why bother????
It was suprisingly easy
My non SA, Hong Kong ICAO medical was accepted, by IAM, CAA had doubts, but once IAM faxed them their records it was accepted. Though I did have to push the issue a little and remind them of what their own AIC said. But be sure to have it sent to IAM in advance if you can. Money paid, they had a quick look at my HK licence, took my PC and signed renewal form (signed by a local GRD2 instructor) and 45 minutes and one of the most digusting cups of coffee later
, I had my licence. now I are kiff pielot!!!!
Also, I found out, you can put your foriegn A/C type onto your SA licence, will cost R900 and you need to apply to the CAA for an exemption with some sort of motivation letter. Eiiysh ! Why bother????
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Hi guys - hope this may help and not construed as advertising 0 i got nothing to do with the company!!!!!
Rose used to work for CAA and has now gone private - might be worth checking out.
Dear Valued Pilot/Client
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Cheers
Rose used to work for CAA and has now gone private - might be worth checking out.
Dear Valued Pilot/Client
Log on to www.takeoffandland.co.za to know more about us.
From the home page click value-added services and see how we may assist you. You can direct your queries via e-mail or telephone.
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Hi 4HP
I'm glad somebody posted some information regarding this topic. I'm heading down south next month during my leave and would also like to take the opportunity to renew my RSA ATPL. I have done a recurrent check/OPC last month so I guess my papers will still be okay when submitting them for the renewal. I would like to know however which application forms to use on the CAA website.
Thanks.
I'm glad somebody posted some information regarding this topic. I'm heading down south next month during my leave and would also like to take the opportunity to renew my RSA ATPL. I have done a recurrent check/OPC last month so I guess my papers will still be okay when submitting them for the renewal. I would like to know however which application forms to use on the CAA website.
Thanks.