Why are South Africans so Negative
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Why are South Africans so Negative
4HP, I dont know if you will bin this, (nope, it's fine - carry on 
4HP) I suspect there is a good chance, however I am just putting it on the forum because there are so many negative statements about SA, and yes the people have a point but here is another view which may be interesting, what relevence to profesional pilots? Well where I work the favorite topic of conversation on the flight deck is how terrible SA is and where can we go.
Here is something interesting; it is a speech by Guy Lundy of Dimension Data Business Solutions:
Below is a speech I gave the other night. It went down so well with the audience that a number of people asked me for copies of it. So I thought I may as well share it with other people too so they can spread the message, especially those living overseas and those who care about spreading a positive message about South Africa.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Many years ago I was an exchange student in the USA, and every morning in my school, as in all schools across America, all classes came to a halt as the Pledge of Allegiance came over the loudspeaker system and every student stood to repeat these words.
I was quite amazed by this display of daily brainwashing in so-called "land of the free". But in hindsight it isn't actually that amazing, because we've all experienced how Americans are just so proud to be American. No matter how big their problems, and heaven knows they've got a lot of them, Americans will still spend hours telling you how fantastic their country is, and in fact, how it is better than, pretty much anywhere else in the world.
What a contrast then, when I later spent a few years in London and I ended up actively avoiding other South Africans. Why? Because frankly their negativity about our homeland irritated me so much! These people who will gladly put new South African flags on their cars and support a whole cottage industry importing biltong and NikNaks to munch on as they cheer on the Springboks at Twickenham, will spend hours telling anyone who will listen just how awful it is in South Africa, how lucky they are to be in London and how they are never going back because it's in such a mess. At the time I put it down to the fact that they were justifying why they were holed up in their dingy little flats under grey London skies while their friends and family enjoyed the sunshine on Camps Bay beach. However, when I came home, expecting to be greeted by the smiles of new South Africans everywhere, I was very disappointed to find that exactly the same attitude is pervasive right here. The number of people, who asked me why I came back here and why on earth I had brought my French wife with me, simply amazed me. I would have thought the answer was perfectly obvious.
I was later very disturbed, although not surprised, to hear that our president found it necessary to make a point to South African businessmen that they should stop running down their own country on overseas business trips. Can anyone tell me what it is that makes sense about running down your own home to foreign people that you would like to visit here and invest here?
It seems to me like inviting your boss to dinner at your house in the hope of getting a promotion but discouraging him from coming because you're a terrible cook and your dog bites. Yes, we have problems, but so does everybody else. Sure, the Rand is down the toilet, but if you look closely enough, you'll see that just about every other emerging market country has suffered from the same woes - and that includes Australia and New Zealand, which everyone seems in such a rush to get to. And aren't we lucky that we aren't living in Argentina with their currency crisis? Sure, our neighbour, Zimbabwe, is run by a mad, despotic fool, but man am I glad that I'm not a Pakistani. We have AIDS and we also have an army of people trying to find a cure for it * possibly more vigorously than anywhere else since we have the most to lose from it. We do have corruption, and the Americans have George W. Bush, whether they like it or not. We've got all sorts of problems, yes, but must we be so hard on ourselves? In many ways we are far better off in South Africa as a whole than we have been at any time in our history.
Our people are getting educated and housed at a world-beating rate, we have amongst the world's cheapest electricity, our inflation is the lowest it's been in my lifetime, we have an economic growth rate and there is development everywhere you look.
We have so much going for us; we have so many good people, such an interesting mix of cultures; we have so much beautiful countryside and natural resources that we can draw from - we really have such a bright future ahead of us. Let us concentrate on the positive things that surround us every day, the sunshine, the people, the beauty, and the progress. Constantly criticising our country can only do harm for you personally, your personal feeling of happiness and well-being and for the country that you know from the bottom of your heart that you love, otherwise you wouldn't be here.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I implore you, do not run down South Africa, neither at home nor overseas. Become ambassadors for your country. Welcome foreign guests and point out how far we have come and how far we're going to go how they need to watch out for us on the world stage. And if you're overseas on business or holiday (if you can afford it), tell people how much South Africa has going for it and invite them to come and see for themselves.
I have devised my own pledge of allegiance and I'd like to repeat it to you now : "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Republic of South Africa and to the interesting people, places and idiosyncrasies for which it stands, one nation under several religions, languages and cultures, yet indivisible, with freedom, basic needs and progress for all."
That is my pledge of allegiance to my home, our home. I pledge to help others see what is so good about it.
Our Beloved Country!!! South Africa, almost alone amongst emerging market economies, is set to escape virtually unscathed from the latest bout of investor panic sweeping the developing world's fragile economies (The Times, London, August 2001)
The SA banking sector has been consistently ranked in the top 10 in terms of competitiveness (MD, Switzerland). When Nelson Mandela was inaugurated President in 1994, SA was insolvent (liabilities exceeded assets).
Today the Government's deficit is negligible - one of only a handful of countries in this position. We've had single digit inflation since 1993 - following 20 years of double-digit inflation.
Mortgage rates are at their lowest level since 1988. South Africa is one of only 12 countries, where we can drink water from a tap. Our tap water was found to be the 3rd best quality in the entire world. Remember 15 years ago, in 1986: A state of emergency was declared. White men did two years compulsory military service. 64 184 black people were removed from "white areas" * 3989 people were detained without trial * Our economic growth rate was 0.7 percent - today it is 3% * 64 countries had sports boycotts against SA!!! South African wines win international awards every year and we have the longest wine route in the world. Nelson Mandela, an international icon of forgiveness, tolerance, and humanity is our favourite son. The Kruger Park has the most innovative management of a national park anywhere in the world - and is the world's most profitable game park. Eskom is the largest producer of coal-fired electricity in the world and South Africans pay the least for electricity in the world. South African Breweries is the 4th largest brewer in the world and produces over 50% of China's beer! Mercedes Benz C Class, BMW 3 Series and VW Golf/Jetta vehicles for all right-hand drive markets throughout the world are produced in South Africa. Didata grew from a local IT service provider into a huge, global networking company with branches in 30 countries. The Cape Peninsula has more species of plants here per hectare than any other area of the world. Magnificent highways, warm, friendly, vibrant rainbow people! The world's most progressive Constitution Kreepy Kraulies - a South African invention - Mrs Ball's chutney and biltong. The world's best looking population.
"For every guy who holds up a gun, there are 99 who hold out a hand of friendship" - Dennis Beckett, journalist. This is something I've never done, but after reading this, all I ask from you is to send this on, to your friends, family and others. Let us in this way deal with our negatives and let us try to be positive. By being positive we can continue to go far in life and we can all strive for a better and more positive life and country. Regards to you all, peace, and positive thinking - that's the way to go!
4HP) I suspect there is a good chance, however I am just putting it on the forum because there are so many negative statements about SA, and yes the people have a point but here is another view which may be interesting, what relevence to profesional pilots? Well where I work the favorite topic of conversation on the flight deck is how terrible SA is and where can we go.Here is something interesting; it is a speech by Guy Lundy of Dimension Data Business Solutions:
Below is a speech I gave the other night. It went down so well with the audience that a number of people asked me for copies of it. So I thought I may as well share it with other people too so they can spread the message, especially those living overseas and those who care about spreading a positive message about South Africa.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Many years ago I was an exchange student in the USA, and every morning in my school, as in all schools across America, all classes came to a halt as the Pledge of Allegiance came over the loudspeaker system and every student stood to repeat these words.
I was quite amazed by this display of daily brainwashing in so-called "land of the free". But in hindsight it isn't actually that amazing, because we've all experienced how Americans are just so proud to be American. No matter how big their problems, and heaven knows they've got a lot of them, Americans will still spend hours telling you how fantastic their country is, and in fact, how it is better than, pretty much anywhere else in the world.
What a contrast then, when I later spent a few years in London and I ended up actively avoiding other South Africans. Why? Because frankly their negativity about our homeland irritated me so much! These people who will gladly put new South African flags on their cars and support a whole cottage industry importing biltong and NikNaks to munch on as they cheer on the Springboks at Twickenham, will spend hours telling anyone who will listen just how awful it is in South Africa, how lucky they are to be in London and how they are never going back because it's in such a mess. At the time I put it down to the fact that they were justifying why they were holed up in their dingy little flats under grey London skies while their friends and family enjoyed the sunshine on Camps Bay beach. However, when I came home, expecting to be greeted by the smiles of new South Africans everywhere, I was very disappointed to find that exactly the same attitude is pervasive right here. The number of people, who asked me why I came back here and why on earth I had brought my French wife with me, simply amazed me. I would have thought the answer was perfectly obvious.
I was later very disturbed, although not surprised, to hear that our president found it necessary to make a point to South African businessmen that they should stop running down their own country on overseas business trips. Can anyone tell me what it is that makes sense about running down your own home to foreign people that you would like to visit here and invest here?
It seems to me like inviting your boss to dinner at your house in the hope of getting a promotion but discouraging him from coming because you're a terrible cook and your dog bites. Yes, we have problems, but so does everybody else. Sure, the Rand is down the toilet, but if you look closely enough, you'll see that just about every other emerging market country has suffered from the same woes - and that includes Australia and New Zealand, which everyone seems in such a rush to get to. And aren't we lucky that we aren't living in Argentina with their currency crisis? Sure, our neighbour, Zimbabwe, is run by a mad, despotic fool, but man am I glad that I'm not a Pakistani. We have AIDS and we also have an army of people trying to find a cure for it * possibly more vigorously than anywhere else since we have the most to lose from it. We do have corruption, and the Americans have George W. Bush, whether they like it or not. We've got all sorts of problems, yes, but must we be so hard on ourselves? In many ways we are far better off in South Africa as a whole than we have been at any time in our history.
Our people are getting educated and housed at a world-beating rate, we have amongst the world's cheapest electricity, our inflation is the lowest it's been in my lifetime, we have an economic growth rate and there is development everywhere you look.
We have so much going for us; we have so many good people, such an interesting mix of cultures; we have so much beautiful countryside and natural resources that we can draw from - we really have such a bright future ahead of us. Let us concentrate on the positive things that surround us every day, the sunshine, the people, the beauty, and the progress. Constantly criticising our country can only do harm for you personally, your personal feeling of happiness and well-being and for the country that you know from the bottom of your heart that you love, otherwise you wouldn't be here.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I implore you, do not run down South Africa, neither at home nor overseas. Become ambassadors for your country. Welcome foreign guests and point out how far we have come and how far we're going to go how they need to watch out for us on the world stage. And if you're overseas on business or holiday (if you can afford it), tell people how much South Africa has going for it and invite them to come and see for themselves.
I have devised my own pledge of allegiance and I'd like to repeat it to you now : "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Republic of South Africa and to the interesting people, places and idiosyncrasies for which it stands, one nation under several religions, languages and cultures, yet indivisible, with freedom, basic needs and progress for all."
That is my pledge of allegiance to my home, our home. I pledge to help others see what is so good about it.
Our Beloved Country!!! South Africa, almost alone amongst emerging market economies, is set to escape virtually unscathed from the latest bout of investor panic sweeping the developing world's fragile economies (The Times, London, August 2001)
The SA banking sector has been consistently ranked in the top 10 in terms of competitiveness (MD, Switzerland). When Nelson Mandela was inaugurated President in 1994, SA was insolvent (liabilities exceeded assets).
Today the Government's deficit is negligible - one of only a handful of countries in this position. We've had single digit inflation since 1993 - following 20 years of double-digit inflation.
Mortgage rates are at their lowest level since 1988. South Africa is one of only 12 countries, where we can drink water from a tap. Our tap water was found to be the 3rd best quality in the entire world. Remember 15 years ago, in 1986: A state of emergency was declared. White men did two years compulsory military service. 64 184 black people were removed from "white areas" * 3989 people were detained without trial * Our economic growth rate was 0.7 percent - today it is 3% * 64 countries had sports boycotts against SA!!! South African wines win international awards every year and we have the longest wine route in the world. Nelson Mandela, an international icon of forgiveness, tolerance, and humanity is our favourite son. The Kruger Park has the most innovative management of a national park anywhere in the world - and is the world's most profitable game park. Eskom is the largest producer of coal-fired electricity in the world and South Africans pay the least for electricity in the world. South African Breweries is the 4th largest brewer in the world and produces over 50% of China's beer! Mercedes Benz C Class, BMW 3 Series and VW Golf/Jetta vehicles for all right-hand drive markets throughout the world are produced in South Africa. Didata grew from a local IT service provider into a huge, global networking company with branches in 30 countries. The Cape Peninsula has more species of plants here per hectare than any other area of the world. Magnificent highways, warm, friendly, vibrant rainbow people! The world's most progressive Constitution Kreepy Kraulies - a South African invention - Mrs Ball's chutney and biltong. The world's best looking population.
"For every guy who holds up a gun, there are 99 who hold out a hand of friendship" - Dennis Beckett, journalist. This is something I've never done, but after reading this, all I ask from you is to send this on, to your friends, family and others. Let us in this way deal with our negatives and let us try to be positive. By being positive we can continue to go far in life and we can all strive for a better and more positive life and country. Regards to you all, peace, and positive thinking - that's the way to go!
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and yet with all these good things we still have the HIGHEST murder rate in the world, the HIGHEST rape rate in the world, and a justice Dept. and President who say we dont have a crime problem.
No matter how much sugar you put on a piece of sh1t, it is still going to taste and smell like a piece of sh1t.
South Africa has as you point out, many good features, more than most countries, but if you live in fear and cannot enjoy them, whats the use????
Personally I think they should bring back National service, for all races, male and female!
Just MHO
And get your facts straight, SAB is the second largest brewer in the world
No matter how much sugar you put on a piece of sh1t, it is still going to taste and smell like a piece of sh1t.
South Africa has as you point out, many good features, more than most countries, but if you live in fear and cannot enjoy them, whats the use????
Personally I think they should bring back National service, for all races, male and female!
Just MHO
And get your facts straight, SAB is the second largest brewer in the world
Paxing All Over The World
I can understand your irriation fluffy but one possible reason is that, the USA is still riding fairly 'high' having had a very successful 20th Century. Now, some of us think that they are heading 'down' and that in another ten years they will be feeling a bit lost and miserable - especially when China takes over as the major manufacturing superpower!
South Africa? They are in a period of enormous turmoil and change. More things are changing in ZA each year than the Americans get in a decade. They have had 9/11 but ZA has had 40 odd years of bombs, guns, fires and k@k. Now - we are not going to talk about who has been doing the k@k - simply that it was and IS happening. That takes it's toll.
Further, there is one section of the citizenry that is seeing their life and circumstances change very rapidly from when they started work/went to Uni or even since they were born. Again - we are not talking about why this is happening or the fact that rule has gone to the majority group because that is accepted by just about everyone. What we CAN say is that folks are worried about where it is all going and what will be left for their children and grandchildren. They feel that it is all beyond their control - and it is.
So ... naturally people will have a grumble about it. Yes it is hard but have you ever heard the Brits grumble? Yes, we have it pretty darn good here and we grumble all the time. The ZA folk have every reason to grumble.
Give it another 20 years and the ZA situation will probably have settled down (one way or the other) and the Americanos will be singing their oath of allegiance into the wind.
So just remember that môre is nog a dag and open another stumpy.
South Africa? They are in a period of enormous turmoil and change. More things are changing in ZA each year than the Americans get in a decade. They have had 9/11 but ZA has had 40 odd years of bombs, guns, fires and k@k. Now - we are not going to talk about who has been doing the k@k - simply that it was and IS happening. That takes it's toll.
Further, there is one section of the citizenry that is seeing their life and circumstances change very rapidly from when they started work/went to Uni or even since they were born. Again - we are not talking about why this is happening or the fact that rule has gone to the majority group because that is accepted by just about everyone. What we CAN say is that folks are worried about where it is all going and what will be left for their children and grandchildren. They feel that it is all beyond their control - and it is.
So ... naturally people will have a grumble about it. Yes it is hard but have you ever heard the Brits grumble? Yes, we have it pretty darn good here and we grumble all the time. The ZA folk have every reason to grumble.
Give it another 20 years and the ZA situation will probably have settled down (one way or the other) and the Americanos will be singing their oath of allegiance into the wind.
So just remember that môre is nog a dag and open another stumpy.
Gatvol
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"For every guy who holds up a gun, there are 99 who hold out a hand of friendship"
Fluffy, its just rather tough to take those other 99 with you everytime you move from your "compound " to the store. They are good cover though.
Fluffy, its just rather tough to take those other 99 with you everytime you move from your "compound " to the store. They are good cover though.
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Alot of people are by nature very negative, and most folks enjoy bad news and horror stories (check your local today, any good news in the headlines?).
It's indicative of our present society. There are many "glass half full" folks who are ready to spread a little sunshine but far more on the flip side who want to pull the wings off your pet fly.
I've made my decision and am determined not to b#@ch about it, I would loved to have stayed, but am not prepared to live and raise my family under constant threat.
I think if memory serves, there are 54 countries in Africa, I've seen most of 'em and I'm still looking for the ultimate success story.!
Good speech though, turn the lights off when you leave Guy -electricity still costs money.
It's indicative of our present society. There are many "glass half full" folks who are ready to spread a little sunshine but far more on the flip side who want to pull the wings off your pet fly.
I've made my decision and am determined not to b#@ch about it, I would loved to have stayed, but am not prepared to live and raise my family under constant threat.
I think if memory serves, there are 54 countries in Africa, I've seen most of 'em and I'm still looking for the ultimate success story.!
Good speech though, turn the lights off when you leave Guy -electricity still costs money.
Está servira para distraerle.
Mr Lundy's own website trumpets the statement that 'he is available to present the particular theme of your conference in an inspirational and motivational manner.' The man is a professional speaker, a member of Toastmasters International and Mensa. The cynical amongst us might say that with these qualifications he is able to devote a great deal of intelligent thought to that which he says with a view to extracting the maximum reward from the people to whom he says it. Goebbels also had these abilities.
Having returned last week from jolly old Josies, one has to say that the lack of northern suburb liberals is becoming quite refreshingly noticeable. Hyde Park coffee tables resound to different tones of conversation, probably equally inane as in the past, as the Boksburg/Benoni brigade moves gradually northwards. Once the Gautrain is up and running, one suspects that even the hallowed streets of Garsfontein willl succumb to the chattering classes.
Still, mind you, the black Safrican has got it firmly into his head that all colonialism is a white man's creation. So, with never a backwards eye on Tanzania or even Seychelles, he, poor chap, is about to hop into bed bigtime with the Chinese, whose expansionist plans, as every African knows, are only there to benefit the local population. Therein lies hidden more than a little Fu Manchu danger but at least there are less Buger Kings and Kenticky Fried Chickens around than before.(sic).
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I must say I fully agree with Suitcaseman.
Until SA turns around and becomes a safer place to live and work.......i will not be calling it home. Having been a victim of crime three times in as many years. I have just had enough.
I'm not negative - I am proud to call myself south african. But until the waves of change have gone their course, i'll be just another "vanilla gorilla" voting wih his feet.
SN
Until SA turns around and becomes a safer place to live and work.......i will not be calling it home. Having been a victim of crime three times in as many years. I have just had enough.
I'm not negative - I am proud to call myself south african. But until the waves of change have gone their course, i'll be just another "vanilla gorilla" voting wih his feet.
SN
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Fluffyfan I think you are on a hiding to nothing boet. I agree with an earlier post, the speech is great, but full of holes you could drive a train through. There are wonderful things about this country of ours, which makes it all the more of a tragedy that the negatives make it impossible to enjoy them.
An interesting fact, there has been a marked increase in recent months of Black professionals seeking migration to Ozz. Makes a man think???
If I listen around me I dont think there are any real statistics that truly reflect the crime situation. As I write this I personally know 4 people (or families) who have been the victims of violent crime since December. I recently had a brain flash.......when a lion attacks a herd of buck, there will be a chase, one is taken down and killed, the rest of the herd run off and continue grazing........We do exactly the same.....we hear of friend or acquantences who have been attacked and say how lucky they are to have not been killed (if they were not killed) and then we go back to grazing. Well I have another thought on this......they are not lucky to have not been hurt of killed. This nonsence should not occur in the first place, it is an abomination.......we have just become so immune to it that we cluck our tongues, say how lucky they are and go back to grazing.
My question to myself was (and to the rest of us is) what exactly is it that we are waiting for?......one of the family to be killed....a wife or daughter to be hijacked and/or raped....is that what will push us over the edge? I look around and I see the same telltale signs that I have seen all over Africa, starting to appear......the Employment Equity Bill 2014 is it?.......land claims and confiscations being more and more openly discussed......a growing complete disregard for the laws of the road by taxis.....a complete disregard for the laws of the land, and indeed any civilized norms apparently by a large section of our population.
We also have a bunch of chickens coming home to roost. Mandela is certainly on final approach and no matter what anyone says, politically he remains a calming influence......Mbeki appears to be nearing the end of his time, what happens then......we have a chief of police who drives a stolen car and appears to have links with organised crime......we have a health minister who thinks beetroot cures aids......and then there is Zuma????
Personally we have made the decision, we are out of here, we have three young sons and what future do 3 white boys have in the South Africa of 10 to 15 years time. Dont know yet exactly where we are going or exactly when we are going.......but we are going.....in the mean time we continue to live very carefully.
An interesting fact, there has been a marked increase in recent months of Black professionals seeking migration to Ozz. Makes a man think???
If I listen around me I dont think there are any real statistics that truly reflect the crime situation. As I write this I personally know 4 people (or families) who have been the victims of violent crime since December. I recently had a brain flash.......when a lion attacks a herd of buck, there will be a chase, one is taken down and killed, the rest of the herd run off and continue grazing........We do exactly the same.....we hear of friend or acquantences who have been attacked and say how lucky they are to have not been killed (if they were not killed) and then we go back to grazing. Well I have another thought on this......they are not lucky to have not been hurt of killed. This nonsence should not occur in the first place, it is an abomination.......we have just become so immune to it that we cluck our tongues, say how lucky they are and go back to grazing.
My question to myself was (and to the rest of us is) what exactly is it that we are waiting for?......one of the family to be killed....a wife or daughter to be hijacked and/or raped....is that what will push us over the edge? I look around and I see the same telltale signs that I have seen all over Africa, starting to appear......the Employment Equity Bill 2014 is it?.......land claims and confiscations being more and more openly discussed......a growing complete disregard for the laws of the road by taxis.....a complete disregard for the laws of the land, and indeed any civilized norms apparently by a large section of our population.
We also have a bunch of chickens coming home to roost. Mandela is certainly on final approach and no matter what anyone says, politically he remains a calming influence......Mbeki appears to be nearing the end of his time, what happens then......we have a chief of police who drives a stolen car and appears to have links with organised crime......we have a health minister who thinks beetroot cures aids......and then there is Zuma????
Personally we have made the decision, we are out of here, we have three young sons and what future do 3 white boys have in the South Africa of 10 to 15 years time. Dont know yet exactly where we are going or exactly when we are going.......but we are going.....in the mean time we continue to live very carefully.
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Why Not
It is a very good speech but for those of us who have seen the wonders of africa 
H....K...G...K... There are very good points in all the previous threads but i find myself thinking that our dear FLUFFYFAN must have blinkers on.
Where is he when he drives to work. Does he miss the taxis cutting in and also driving in the emergency lane, going through red robots. When last did anyone see a cop on the roads. This has led the lack of respect for law and order up the proverbial creek and is making life a living hell for the normal citizen and life for the criminal gets better.
Someone says we cannot stop speaking about the negative things. Do you just ignore a very good friend that got held up at gunpoint, do you ignore a neighbour from our "secure" suburb who got held up last night and fortunately the thugs could not decide who to kill so they just took the families 2 cars and filled them up over 2 hours and drove through the boom and disappeared.
It used to be that one knew someone who knew someone who was affected by crime, which by the way does not exist in this country (according to the Govt), but now it is getting worse and affecting us directly.
So do we wait as someone said before me to try and console our wives after they are raped or do we try and make our family safe by whatever means we deem fit. Yes different countries have different problems but are the governments as thick as the one we have here.
I have been trying for a long time to stay away from emigrating but i have to say the crime is now getting a level where one cannot ignore it unless you are the SA President, and have to find a safer place for my wife and kids. I would like to visit them at their houses when they grow up and not at the local cemetry when their anniversary comes up every year.
I FEEL THAT IF YOU THINK THAT THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY THEN SOME ONE IS GOING TO MAKE A FEATHER DUSTER OUT OF YOU BUT DON'T SLAG THE PEOPLE WHO TRY AND MAKE IT SAFE FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES ELSEWHERE.
H....K...G...K... There are very good points in all the previous threads but i find myself thinking that our dear FLUFFYFAN must have blinkers on. Where is he when he drives to work. Does he miss the taxis cutting in and also driving in the emergency lane, going through red robots. When last did anyone see a cop on the roads. This has led the lack of respect for law and order up the proverbial creek and is making life a living hell for the normal citizen and life for the criminal gets better.
Someone says we cannot stop speaking about the negative things. Do you just ignore a very good friend that got held up at gunpoint, do you ignore a neighbour from our "secure" suburb who got held up last night and fortunately the thugs could not decide who to kill so they just took the families 2 cars and filled them up over 2 hours and drove through the boom and disappeared.
It used to be that one knew someone who knew someone who was affected by crime, which by the way does not exist in this country (according to the Govt), but now it is getting worse and affecting us directly.
So do we wait as someone said before me to try and console our wives after they are raped or do we try and make our family safe by whatever means we deem fit. Yes different countries have different problems but are the governments as thick as the one we have here.
I have been trying for a long time to stay away from emigrating but i have to say the crime is now getting a level where one cannot ignore it unless you are the SA President, and have to find a safer place for my wife and kids. I would like to visit them at their houses when they grow up and not at the local cemetry when their anniversary comes up every year.
I FEEL THAT IF YOU THINK THAT THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY THEN SOME ONE IS GOING TO MAKE A FEATHER DUSTER OUT OF YOU BUT DON'T SLAG THE PEOPLE WHO TRY AND MAKE IT SAFE FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES ELSEWHERE.
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It seems that speech was delivered in 2001. At the going rate he would probably have experienced two hijakings and three robberies by now.
I would be interested to hear the 2007 version !
Seems like I am one of those whinging South Africans ... but then I dont have a Euro passport on standby like Mr Lundy ...that is if he is still in SA.
I would be interested to hear the 2007 version !
Seems like I am one of those whinging South Africans ... but then I dont have a Euro passport on standby like Mr Lundy ...that is if he is still in SA.
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Speaking as someone who in the past forty years has visited over 60 countries and has worked and has close friends on four continents I believe South Africa to be one of the most beautiful and healthy countries one could wish to live in... except for the crime problem which way exceeds anything that I or my friends have experienced anywhere else in the world includiing the poorer areas of New York...
It's totally out of control, almost everyone I meet in SA has experienced either directly or through a close friend or relative very violent crime at least once... I know of no one personally anywhere outside of SA who has experienced or come close to violent crime. Of course it exists but the chances of one experiencing it personally or even through a close aquaintence is extremely remote.
Until this problem is openly admitted to and addressed by the people now running the country and measures introduced that show a major turnaround I would not invest one dollar in the country and have every sympathy with those looking for a more secure future for themselves and their families elsewhere....
I don't see it as being negative, just realistic... if these people were in a position to improve the situation yet did nothing but complain then accusations of negativity would be justified... unfortunately that is not the case.
It's totally out of control, almost everyone I meet in SA has experienced either directly or through a close friend or relative very violent crime at least once... I know of no one personally anywhere outside of SA who has experienced or come close to violent crime. Of course it exists but the chances of one experiencing it personally or even through a close aquaintence is extremely remote.
Until this problem is openly admitted to and addressed by the people now running the country and measures introduced that show a major turnaround I would not invest one dollar in the country and have every sympathy with those looking for a more secure future for themselves and their families elsewhere....
I don't see it as being negative, just realistic... if these people were in a position to improve the situation yet did nothing but complain then accusations of negativity would be justified... unfortunately that is not the case.
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Q. Do you feel secure at home in South Africa?
A. Well, if the security gates are locked and the alarm is on I feel more secure, but am still worried that if I am in the garden or arriving home I might be hijacked. Its a pain to keep two big dogs and a nuisance having to put up with the barking of the dogs all around me in my security complex but they provide more security. I pay the armed response quite a lot of money every month and they are pretty good. I keep a gun, and recently had to jump through several legal hoops to be allowed to keep it, but it brings me peace of mind under my pillow at night. But I must say that I am especially sensitive to strange noises downstairs or outside - my first thought is that it may be an intruder.
Q. How do you feel about the roads in South Africa?
A. I find myself getting very frustrated. If it is not minibus taxis overtaking on the gravel next to the road, it is minibus taxis pulling some other illegal/dangerous move. Where are the police? When you see them they are parked with 2 or 3 vehicles together, under a shady tree, having what looks like a little party, laughing and eating. I am constantly getting stuck behind big slow trucks which block the road, block all 3 lanes of the highway, do 20km/h up a small hill. At traffic lights I am constantly harrassed by hordes of blacks trying to sell me all sorts of rubbish - and I am scared some of them are hijackers. I go through red traffic lights at night time if theres no oncoming traffic - I am too scared of being robbed or hijacked to wait for the light to change. The state of the roads is getting worse - potholes are appearing in more and more roads, they aren't getting fixed. At most major intersections there is lots of gravel and debris in the road which never gets removed. I'd like to buy a Kombi but its virtually guaranteed to get stolen.
Q. What about the rest of the infrastructure?
A. We are getting more and more power cuts these days - on TV it said that we can expect more to come - apparently there needs to be a doubling of electricity supply in the next ten years and I can't see that happening. They aren't building any more power stations but the population is exploding, RDP houses are going up all over and the poor don't pay for electricity - I expect it will get more and more chaotic.
The Police are useless, crime is rampant - its completely normal to have armed robberies every day, rape statistics are the worst in the world, the murder rate is something like 22,000 per year. The prisons are full and they regularly have amnesties where they release dangerous criminals to offend again.
The Prosecution Service seems to mess up all the time and dangerous criminals get off on technicalities.
The Health Service - last time I went to a State Hospital I waited in a line for 4 hours amongst victims of what looked like a civil war with my feet in pools of blood and eventually was told to wait they couldnt help me with my injured wrist as I could afford private healthcare.
The Minister of Health is in denial about AIDS, she recently embarrassed herself and the whole of South Africa by exhibiting her 'cure for AIDS' - garden vegetables.
The Postal Service is so bad that I use PostNet, a private company. It costs more but if you post a parcel at the Post Office you might as well just go and throw it in the dustbin, it is just about guaranteed to get stolen or broken. There is no public transport apart from the dangerous minibus taxis.
Telkom has a monopoly and takes six months or more to respond to a service request. I have gone private - I use wireless internet and a cellphone.
Banks here charge a fortune for basic services, and when you arrive at the bank you queue forever to see some underexperienced/underqualified employee who is seldom able to help you without calling his/her supervisor.
Q. What about the government?
A. Corrupt and/or useless from top to bottom. Apart from the Finance Ministry which seems pretty jacked up thank goodness. But Ministries like Health, Safety and Security, Correctional Services, Home Affairs, Public Enterprises etc are a mess. They don't do their job. They don't even give excuses, they just brazenly don't do their job. I mean, with just the five ministries I mention above - one night you get the regular power cut, escaped criminals take the opportunity to break in and rob you and shoot you,
you fork out a fortune on private health care , decide to emigrate but you can't get a passport because they've run out of paper!! The Deputy President was up for rape and corruption, plenty MP's done for corruption, still serving, some MP's for more serious crimes like kidnapping & murder - still 'serving'. What can I do to change it? Nothing - my vote will always be drowned like an SOS being drowned in static - I might as well not bother.
Q. Good points about South Africa?
A. There's awesome countryside, fantastic scenery, African animals, great beaches, mountains, exceptional climate. The people are friendly, you can have a lot of fun.
Q. Whats the main problem then?
A. Well, I am tired of living in a fortress and paying money every month to private enterprises like security companies, postal companies, healthcare companies, communications companies when the government should take care of these things with my tax money. Insurance premiums are huge because of the security risk. I read every day in the paper of violent crimes occurring all around me. I read regularly of some or other government scandal or corruption going on. The lights are always going out. I get turned away from jobs because of affirmative action...but mostly I am tired of being harrassed. When I leave my security complex to drive to the shopping mall, I get harrassed at every place I stop be it a stop sign, a traffic light or the car park at my destination. I am seen as some sort of money donating machine, a target - thats it - I am tired of being a target.
Q. So why do you stay?
A. My wifes family lives here...she wont leave until her folks die, so until then I have to make sure they don't hit us, the targets.
A. Well, if the security gates are locked and the alarm is on I feel more secure, but am still worried that if I am in the garden or arriving home I might be hijacked. Its a pain to keep two big dogs and a nuisance having to put up with the barking of the dogs all around me in my security complex but they provide more security. I pay the armed response quite a lot of money every month and they are pretty good. I keep a gun, and recently had to jump through several legal hoops to be allowed to keep it, but it brings me peace of mind under my pillow at night. But I must say that I am especially sensitive to strange noises downstairs or outside - my first thought is that it may be an intruder.
Q. How do you feel about the roads in South Africa?
A. I find myself getting very frustrated. If it is not minibus taxis overtaking on the gravel next to the road, it is minibus taxis pulling some other illegal/dangerous move. Where are the police? When you see them they are parked with 2 or 3 vehicles together, under a shady tree, having what looks like a little party, laughing and eating. I am constantly getting stuck behind big slow trucks which block the road, block all 3 lanes of the highway, do 20km/h up a small hill. At traffic lights I am constantly harrassed by hordes of blacks trying to sell me all sorts of rubbish - and I am scared some of them are hijackers. I go through red traffic lights at night time if theres no oncoming traffic - I am too scared of being robbed or hijacked to wait for the light to change. The state of the roads is getting worse - potholes are appearing in more and more roads, they aren't getting fixed. At most major intersections there is lots of gravel and debris in the road which never gets removed. I'd like to buy a Kombi but its virtually guaranteed to get stolen.
Q. What about the rest of the infrastructure?
A. We are getting more and more power cuts these days - on TV it said that we can expect more to come - apparently there needs to be a doubling of electricity supply in the next ten years and I can't see that happening. They aren't building any more power stations but the population is exploding, RDP houses are going up all over and the poor don't pay for electricity - I expect it will get more and more chaotic.
The Police are useless, crime is rampant - its completely normal to have armed robberies every day, rape statistics are the worst in the world, the murder rate is something like 22,000 per year. The prisons are full and they regularly have amnesties where they release dangerous criminals to offend again.
The Prosecution Service seems to mess up all the time and dangerous criminals get off on technicalities.
The Health Service - last time I went to a State Hospital I waited in a line for 4 hours amongst victims of what looked like a civil war with my feet in pools of blood and eventually was told to wait they couldnt help me with my injured wrist as I could afford private healthcare.
The Minister of Health is in denial about AIDS, she recently embarrassed herself and the whole of South Africa by exhibiting her 'cure for AIDS' - garden vegetables.
The Postal Service is so bad that I use PostNet, a private company. It costs more but if you post a parcel at the Post Office you might as well just go and throw it in the dustbin, it is just about guaranteed to get stolen or broken. There is no public transport apart from the dangerous minibus taxis.
Telkom has a monopoly and takes six months or more to respond to a service request. I have gone private - I use wireless internet and a cellphone.
Banks here charge a fortune for basic services, and when you arrive at the bank you queue forever to see some underexperienced/underqualified employee who is seldom able to help you without calling his/her supervisor.
Q. What about the government?
A. Corrupt and/or useless from top to bottom. Apart from the Finance Ministry which seems pretty jacked up thank goodness. But Ministries like Health, Safety and Security, Correctional Services, Home Affairs, Public Enterprises etc are a mess. They don't do their job. They don't even give excuses, they just brazenly don't do their job. I mean, with just the five ministries I mention above - one night you get the regular power cut, escaped criminals take the opportunity to break in and rob you and shoot you,
you fork out a fortune on private health care , decide to emigrate but you can't get a passport because they've run out of paper!! The Deputy President was up for rape and corruption, plenty MP's done for corruption, still serving, some MP's for more serious crimes like kidnapping & murder - still 'serving'. What can I do to change it? Nothing - my vote will always be drowned like an SOS being drowned in static - I might as well not bother.
Q. Good points about South Africa?
A. There's awesome countryside, fantastic scenery, African animals, great beaches, mountains, exceptional climate. The people are friendly, you can have a lot of fun.
Q. Whats the main problem then?
A. Well, I am tired of living in a fortress and paying money every month to private enterprises like security companies, postal companies, healthcare companies, communications companies when the government should take care of these things with my tax money. Insurance premiums are huge because of the security risk. I read every day in the paper of violent crimes occurring all around me. I read regularly of some or other government scandal or corruption going on. The lights are always going out. I get turned away from jobs because of affirmative action...but mostly I am tired of being harrassed. When I leave my security complex to drive to the shopping mall, I get harrassed at every place I stop be it a stop sign, a traffic light or the car park at my destination. I am seen as some sort of money donating machine, a target - thats it - I am tired of being a target.
Q. So why do you stay?
A. My wifes family lives here...she wont leave until her folks die, so until then I have to make sure they don't hit us, the targets.
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It's the old boiling the frog in the pot routine. Throw one into boiling water and it immediately tries to escape, but put one in cool water and slowly turn the heat up to boiling point and it doesn't realise it's being boiled alive.
Three weeks in Australia last year showed me how we are supposed to live. Not behind big walls, burgler bars, armed response, etc. That is not okay. That is not normal. I'm not going to be boiled alive with the heat slowly being turned up.
Three weeks in Australia last year showed me how we are supposed to live. Not behind big walls, burgler bars, armed response, etc. That is not okay. That is not normal. I'm not going to be boiled alive with the heat slowly being turned up.
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Before packing for OZ you might want to know where the most house break-inns occur per capita. Also 5FM just visited SYD and commented on just how they have never come across such negative people as the ex-Safricans there, to such an extent that they(5FM) never want to go back. Ja, working till 730pm each night and realising you are in Oz is when the maid and gardener sleep together in the double bed, and it is accepted. South Africans are well accepted in Oz because they are such suckers for punishment, work hard and always smile back for more.
Anyway ,yes its Oz folks, that has the Worlds most Burglaries (per capita) by country
Anyway ,yes its Oz folks, that has the Worlds most Burglaries (per capita) by country
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CJ750 don’t get me wrong, I think there is a big problem in this country, that speech was not written by me, but by Guy Lundy of Dimension Data, its interesting to me because its another point of view, there have been many guys leaving the company I work for who end up coming back, one famous letter from a guy who left to Qatar who said it was the worst decision he ever made. On the other hand there are guys who are quite happy having made the move and I hold no ill feeling towards them, it can’t be easy moving to another country and starting again.
One mate of mine was very successful in moving to Australia, made lots of money as an Electrical engineer, nice house in Brisbane, but after 2 years there he could not stand the so called "police state" and ended up moving back to SA, I personally don’t think I would have that problem, I would rather not be allowed to change my own oil or fix my washing machine without the neighbours calling the cops on me, than getting killed in my house.
I am in the same dilemma you have been/are in, do I stay or do I go? at the moment I have a very nice job earning a descent salary, do I give that up and go live in a place where it may be better or may not, I may end up flying long hours away from home as a permanent contract pilot while my wife and kids sit in a small house with crappy weather wondering why we made the move. I honestly don’t know yet, it’s a constant worry am I waiting for something to happen to me or my family before I make the decision.
I guess I am waiting to see, I think a lot of the negative stuff is blown out of proportion because that’s what sells papers, 99% of the people I know have not suffered any sort of violent crime, but yes have been victims of petty crime (maybe we are the lucky ones), but then my mate who lived in Brisbane had his house broken into and his plasma TV stolen as well. The one fact that I do know is that South Africans are under terrible stress and over time that will kill you, there is a large increase in the number of stress related deaths here.
So in response to your statement
I don’t and never said there was no problem, and I hope no one makes a feather duster out of me.....they may try but I too carry a large gun and hopefully will win.
Never did, never will, may even join you when I have made up my mind if it’s not too late.
One mate of mine was very successful in moving to Australia, made lots of money as an Electrical engineer, nice house in Brisbane, but after 2 years there he could not stand the so called "police state" and ended up moving back to SA, I personally don’t think I would have that problem, I would rather not be allowed to change my own oil or fix my washing machine without the neighbours calling the cops on me, than getting killed in my house.
I am in the same dilemma you have been/are in, do I stay or do I go? at the moment I have a very nice job earning a descent salary, do I give that up and go live in a place where it may be better or may not, I may end up flying long hours away from home as a permanent contract pilot while my wife and kids sit in a small house with crappy weather wondering why we made the move. I honestly don’t know yet, it’s a constant worry am I waiting for something to happen to me or my family before I make the decision.
I guess I am waiting to see, I think a lot of the negative stuff is blown out of proportion because that’s what sells papers, 99% of the people I know have not suffered any sort of violent crime, but yes have been victims of petty crime (maybe we are the lucky ones), but then my mate who lived in Brisbane had his house broken into and his plasma TV stolen as well. The one fact that I do know is that South Africans are under terrible stress and over time that will kill you, there is a large increase in the number of stress related deaths here.
So in response to your statement
I FEEL THAT IF YOU THINK THAT THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY THEN SOME ONE IS GOING TO MAKE A FEATHER DUSTER OUT OF YOU
BUT DON'T SLAG THE PEOPLE WHO TRY AND MAKE IT SAFE FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES ELSEWHERE.
Last edited by fluffyfan; 27th Feb 2007 at 09:25.
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Just to substantiate, herewith some crime facts to checkout. And yes SA does feature high on many, like assaults , but OZ has 2/3rds the amount of SA? Car thefts , well also another interesting one as we know with the SA insurance at least every car stolen is reported!
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ies-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ies-per-capita
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gofor
5fm????.......now there is a really reliable source of wisdom and truth
And you believe the SA stats???? Dont know if you have been to Ozz (and I am not suggesting that's the only option by any means) but anyone who tells you that crime is a real issue in that country is smoking something very very illegal........if anything they are too law abiding to the point of almost being anal.......
I was there at the beginning of this year and as a confirmed Aussie hater (like all good South Africans) I found the people to be very friendly and very pleasant...... Ozz has its problems and a lot of people go there thinking its going to be heaven..... it's not, it's hard to live there and that's probably why many people end up coming back (those stats are quite high) but if you move anywhere and expect it to be like the place you left you are in for a hiding.....and on the flip side that country has a huge amount going for it.....go check it out.....and talk to the South Africans you know there who are staying.
All said and done whether it's Ozz, the US of A, Cyprus the UK......far as I am concerned anywhere is better than here, beautiful as this country might be.
And the worlds most burglaries..........Jaa Right!.......that's why they all have walls around their houses?????....I suppose
5fm????.......now there is a really reliable source of wisdom and truth
And you believe the SA stats???? Dont know if you have been to Ozz (and I am not suggesting that's the only option by any means) but anyone who tells you that crime is a real issue in that country is smoking something very very illegal........if anything they are too law abiding to the point of almost being anal.......
I was there at the beginning of this year and as a confirmed Aussie hater (like all good South Africans) I found the people to be very friendly and very pleasant...... Ozz has its problems and a lot of people go there thinking its going to be heaven..... it's not, it's hard to live there and that's probably why many people end up coming back (those stats are quite high) but if you move anywhere and expect it to be like the place you left you are in for a hiding.....and on the flip side that country has a huge amount going for it.....go check it out.....and talk to the South Africans you know there who are staying.
All said and done whether it's Ozz, the US of A, Cyprus the UK......far as I am concerned anywhere is better than here, beautiful as this country might be.
And the worlds most burglaries..........Jaa Right!.......that's why they all have walls around their houses?????....I suppose