NAC
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Having toiled for every single company named in this thread I can categorically state:
Companies that treat pilots like turds from bad to good:
1.Naturelink
2.Nac.....................interesting that these two go together
.....does it really matter about the rest, we are discussing the worst no? Funny how staff turnover at these two are also spectacular...
Best of the rest: GO NORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Companies that treat pilots like turds from bad to good:
1.Naturelink
2.Nac.....................interesting that these two go together
.....does it really matter about the rest, we are discussing the worst no? Funny how staff turnover at these two are also spectacular...
Best of the rest: GO NORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Interesting post I.R.Pirate,
If I recall correctly, these companies didn't loose a lot of tears after seeing you out the door. The old saying of burning bridges comes to mind. Specially if you fly the aircraft out from contract and leave it on the apron in SA without the companies knowledge.
Enough said, as they say, take it from whence it comes.
If I recall correctly, these companies didn't loose a lot of tears after seeing you out the door. The old saying of burning bridges comes to mind. Specially if you fly the aircraft out from contract and leave it on the apron in SA without the companies knowledge.
Enough said, as they say, take it from whence it comes.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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P4S
On behalf of SirC.....what ARE you talking about?????
Warloc
Methinks you may have hit the proverbial nail right on the cranium!!!
I would hazard a guess that similar circumstances exist in most cases of the whingers.
Just a thought (which does not as yet seem to have struck home)........given that NAC has probably not ever made any profit of note out of contracts and the contracts division is rumoured to have made a loss for a while now.....then surely losing these loss making contracts would be a good thing not a bad thing.......in fact far from being a source of the demise of NAC (as it appears some would hope for and as was suggested in earlier posts) it would in fact cause an increase in its profitability???......
On behalf of SirC.....what ARE you talking about?????
Warloc
Methinks you may have hit the proverbial nail right on the cranium!!!
I would hazard a guess that similar circumstances exist in most cases of the whingers.
Just a thought (which does not as yet seem to have struck home)........given that NAC has probably not ever made any profit of note out of contracts and the contracts division is rumoured to have made a loss for a while now.....then surely losing these loss making contracts would be a good thing not a bad thing.......in fact far from being a source of the demise of NAC (as it appears some would hope for and as was suggested in earlier posts) it would in fact cause an increase in its profitability???......
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That was for you actually........I was aware of it before this thread came up and it was the subject of several prior discussions (check my post on the original thread and earlier on this one) ......from earlier posts it had obviously been missed.......otherwise why would it be suggested that they would be facing financial difficulty because of the loss of a number of loss making contracts......?
Just trying to help you out with the logic.
Just trying to help you out with the logic.
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Balmy,
Good point, the contracts division of many companies that are also in the sales bussiness are a support structure for sales. Thus the money is made on the sale of the aircraft and if it breaks even after that on contract it's a bonus. NAC had a couple of bad contracts in which they flew before the money was in the bank (first rule on contracts
) and lost out on the deal, then it's a case of cutting your loses and moving on.
The bottom line is that contracts are not soft living, management can make things better, but if you're sitting in the arsehole of the world, there's not much you can do about the smell.
Good point, the contracts division of many companies that are also in the sales bussiness are a support structure for sales. Thus the money is made on the sale of the aircraft and if it breaks even after that on contract it's a bonus. NAC had a couple of bad contracts in which they flew before the money was in the bank (first rule on contracts
) and lost out on the deal, then it's a case of cutting your loses and moving on.The bottom line is that contracts are not soft living, management can make things better, but if you're sitting in the arsehole of the world, there's not much you can do about the smell.
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The problem with NAC using contracts to sell aircraft is that they often screwed the person they sold the aircraft to as the aircraft was overpriced and the contract far from what they promised the buyer he / she would get out of it. Then when things went pear-shaped with the contract, they simply laughed the buyer off and went in search of the next victim. Case in point is the bank run contract they used to have. They sold a certain buyer a B55 Baron with guaranteed utilisation on the bank runs and a few months later when the one specific route was shut down, they gave that owner notice and refused to place the aircraft on another route. The owner then went out and pitched to the company operating the bank runs and took the contract over from NAC. Sweet justice!! The owner of Norse Air was also screwed over by NAC on his first B1900D purchase in a similiar way and now look at how big that company has become. Also understand that Exec. T owner operates in a similiar fashion to NAC.
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Balmy, I must disagree! Although a lot of Norse's most recent growth has little to do with that particular B1900D, the initial growth was forced on Norse in order to recover from the massive financial damage that initial aircraft caused the owner!! It is called averaging! The more you have, the less the impact of one bad component.
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Balmy
Fact Year 2000 3 pilots were retrenched because they were paid R2000 more than the Streamline pilots at the merge on NAC and Streamline.
Fact 2003 2 pilots left and their retirement fund were held back illegally because of a bond that had never been signed or even mentioned. Until such time as the pilots succumb to being bullied into signing that NAC could deduct that money from there retirement money. (hopelessly illegal but what can he do earning R6000 a month)
Fact 2004 1 pilot was asked to leave because he did not pass his ATP when they said he must. The reason being that they thought he was actually earning more than he was worth and nothing to do with ATP.
What a bunch of
heads, SORRY?
Guess what they are still doing the same to all the guys, and you defend them, NAC exploits people!!!
Fact Year 2000 3 pilots were retrenched because they were paid R2000 more than the Streamline pilots at the merge on NAC and Streamline.
Fact 2003 2 pilots left and their retirement fund were held back illegally because of a bond that had never been signed or even mentioned. Until such time as the pilots succumb to being bullied into signing that NAC could deduct that money from there retirement money. (hopelessly illegal but what can he do earning R6000 a month)
Fact 2004 1 pilot was asked to leave because he did not pass his ATP when they said he must. The reason being that they thought he was actually earning more than he was worth and nothing to do with ATP.
What a bunch of
heads, SORRY?Guess what they are still doing the same to all the guys, and you defend them, NAC exploits people!!!
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Firstly
I have not defended anybody.....but have simply said the winging of ex employees (or even wors of disloyal current employees) never helped anyboby with anything except perhaps to make these sad individuals feel sorry for themselves
Secondly
From your post it is apparent that you are not one of the individuals involved so how you can state the details as fact escapes me.
What I really love is how you know the motives behind all these things......so are we to understand that necause of your close and loyal ties with the company you were privy to the intimate details of these matter.......
Or did you perhaps get them from a whinging pilot??
Were I a betting man I know which I would lay money on???
I have not defended anybody.....but have simply said the winging of ex employees (or even wors of disloyal current employees) never helped anyboby with anything except perhaps to make these sad individuals feel sorry for themselves
Secondly
From your post it is apparent that you are not one of the individuals involved so how you can state the details as fact escapes me.
What I really love is how you know the motives behind all these things......so are we to understand that necause of your close and loyal ties with the company you were privy to the intimate details of these matter.......
Or did you perhaps get them from a whinging pilot??
Were I a betting man I know which I would lay money on???
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Balmy it seems that by telling by NAC management and a few people on this thread to face reality , is like trying to stick a needle up a porcupine's a$#e.
Here's an interesting story that has recently surfaced.
1) NAC buys 13x 1900's D from Australia
2) 1900's get all dolled up and look nice and shiny
3) Salesman/s sell 1900's to buddys and other customers with 3 years free maintenance and 60 hrs guaranteed on a contratc somewhere in the world.
Tell me , where in this %*%^#@* do you sell a s/h 1900 D with 3 years free maintenance.?
Salesman/s pocket commisssion.
4)First year in Algeria , NAC contracts make nice profit
5) Second year in Algeria ,Nac contracts makes huge profit,R.L. is a big hero.
6) Third year , 8 engines + 1 prop are damaged .Engines plus minius anything between $200,000-$400,000 to repair.Profit has been eaten into.
7) Fourth year , 7 engines + 2 propellers are damaged , profit kitty now in the red.
So salesman/s sell a/c , pocket commission and NAC contrats pays for every nut and bolt and all the inspections that were done on the aircraft .The owners got the a/c maintained for free,nada,gratis.
As the saying goes " makes you think"
Here's an interesting story that has recently surfaced.
1) NAC buys 13x 1900's D from Australia
2) 1900's get all dolled up and look nice and shiny
3) Salesman/s sell 1900's to buddys and other customers with 3 years free maintenance and 60 hrs guaranteed on a contratc somewhere in the world.
Tell me , where in this %*%^#@* do you sell a s/h 1900 D with 3 years free maintenance.?
Salesman/s pocket commisssion.
4)First year in Algeria , NAC contracts make nice profit
5) Second year in Algeria ,Nac contracts makes huge profit,R.L. is a big hero.
6) Third year , 8 engines + 1 prop are damaged .Engines plus minius anything between $200,000-$400,000 to repair.Profit has been eaten into.
7) Fourth year , 7 engines + 2 propellers are damaged , profit kitty now in the red.
So salesman/s sell a/c , pocket commission and NAC contrats pays for every nut and bolt and all the inspections that were done on the aircraft .The owners got the a/c maintained for free,nada,gratis.
As the saying goes " makes you think"
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Thanks for answering on my behalf, Balmy. You summed it up with
P4s, for the record I am not Patches whoever that may be, secondly my comments about RL were simply that he ran the contracts division for a good few years and the day he decided to leave the knives were drawn by the likes of you who slated NAC!? My comment related to the fact that HE was the one running contracts for a good few years and surely he should be partly to blame?
When it comes to ethics, for the record I have not worked for RL nor under him at any time, nor have I claimed to have done so. So your comments about glass houses are groundless.
I think I already did it for him.......what on earth are you talking about??.....
'Was RL not at the helm of NAC Contracts for the past 10 or so years? Must he not bear some of the responsibility for the perceived unhappiness?'
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The wheel turns..
Just face it, NAC is up to *#@ and has been for 3 years now ( or to pinpoint it a bit better the day E. el-pricko stepped through the doors).
Fact : They dont give a crap about their crew, their thinking is "if you dont like it, theres the door, lots more where you came from" and I speak of personal experience. Mister El-pricko himself told me, and I quote " you guys that have been here for 2 years + must move on now, I feel guilty seeing the gofers walk up and down the isles and not flying" what a complete A-hole..have you ever heard of contract min requirements ? Certain areas where you would like like someone to have more than just the 1hr (NAC old standard) conversion time behind their name ?????
I started my career at NAC, but the person who made that possible left the ranks a long time ago, so in my mind I dont owe NAC anything but rather the good people that USE to be there.. I say good riddance to bad rubbish, the gap will be filled and the NAC crew can go to a company who appreciates their crew and actually looks after them..
Good thing old E. el-pricko doesnt work on a " Performance Allowance"
his pension would be gone by now at the rate hes going..
Nuf` said..
Fact : They dont give a crap about their crew, their thinking is "if you dont like it, theres the door, lots more where you came from" and I speak of personal experience. Mister El-pricko himself told me, and I quote " you guys that have been here for 2 years + must move on now, I feel guilty seeing the gofers walk up and down the isles and not flying" what a complete A-hole..have you ever heard of contract min requirements ? Certain areas where you would like like someone to have more than just the 1hr (NAC old standard) conversion time behind their name ?????
I started my career at NAC, but the person who made that possible left the ranks a long time ago, so in my mind I dont owe NAC anything but rather the good people that USE to be there.. I say good riddance to bad rubbish, the gap will be filled and the NAC crew can go to a company who appreciates their crew and actually looks after them..
Good thing old E. el-pricko doesnt work on a " Performance Allowance"
his pension would be gone by now at the rate hes going..
Nuf` said..
