A340 winglet!
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Not a sales gimmick at all. The winglets have a fuel saving function and more important it reduces the wake turbulance signature of the aircraft. This allows ATC to reduce separation on approach. PS the MTOW for the A340-313 is 275000kg but the A340-312 is 260000kg (smaller engines)
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The design of the entire wing influences the nature of the winglet required, which is why 737NGs and 757s whose wings were designed initially without winglets have the big verticals but on 777s the vortex reduction is dealt with by the raked wingtips.
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Kinda all answers are correct
I had a LONG chat to the 'boys in brazil' on this subject. It started when i asked why CRJ's have them and ERJ's dont. Short answer was that the added weight , cost and complexity didn't justify the small reduction in fuel flow (Anti ice system for these things can be a bitch). For flights LESS than 7 hrs, they are not viable.
I also remember a discussion at SAA on the 744 that lost 1 winglet. The Boeing CDL also gave increased fuel flow and reduced MTOW. However on landing, the trip was sent off to SITA and they reported the aircraft had shown NO DIFFERENCE in fuel burn. However, cause the aircraft in question was Lufthansa, this is a 2nd hand story.
I remember chatting to a 738 captain when half the fleet had winglets and half didnt. He said that the trip fuel was the same for those with and those without. But again, largely used on short haul trips.
A few months later, on seeing the Legacy, i called EMBRAER again and asked if they were about to say sorry for changing there minds. And when the retro fit kit would be out for the ERJ135.
Answer was that NO retro fit. Not worth the effort, and that on the Legacy, they were fitted as most costumers THOUGHT that they were a cool fuel saving idea. ERGO the buyers wanted 'go faster strips'. So they fitted them, even though the benifit was marginal over the aircraft's mission profile.
I also remember a discussion at SAA on the 744 that lost 1 winglet. The Boeing CDL also gave increased fuel flow and reduced MTOW. However on landing, the trip was sent off to SITA and they reported the aircraft had shown NO DIFFERENCE in fuel burn. However, cause the aircraft in question was Lufthansa, this is a 2nd hand story.
I remember chatting to a 738 captain when half the fleet had winglets and half didnt. He said that the trip fuel was the same for those with and those without. But again, largely used on short haul trips.
A few months later, on seeing the Legacy, i called EMBRAER again and asked if they were about to say sorry for changing there minds. And when the retro fit kit would be out for the ERJ135.
Answer was that NO retro fit. Not worth the effort, and that on the Legacy, they were fitted as most costumers THOUGHT that they were a cool fuel saving idea. ERGO the buyers wanted 'go faster strips'. So they fitted them, even though the benifit was marginal over the aircraft's mission profile.
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So the debate continues...
This was my initial point, neither 100% proven one way or the other...the placebo effect, if you are told they will save you fuel then you believe it.
This was my initial point, neither 100% proven one way or the other...the placebo effect, if you are told they will save you fuel then you believe it.
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Dont know if it is related or not but I flew Perth - ORT on 3rd in SAA 340-200 with only one winglet. If I recollect correctly the lefthand winglet was AWOL and looked like some not too permanent repairs.....had me wondering some???
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This brings up an interesting fact about Aircraft design. People think that airplanes are cool. Airplanes hence should look cool and if there is a benefit of cost savings then have at it. BTW wing tip devices have been touted as creating 3.5-5.5% less drag than wings without.
The T-tail design was touted also as a "cool looking" design feature that in my opinion has more faults than merits.
The T-tail design was touted also as a "cool looking" design feature that in my opinion has more faults than merits.
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south coast - Michael O'Leary is not only buying every new FR 738 with winglets but is refitting every 738 he's got with them. MOL doesn't pay for anything he doesn't need - he won't pay for things he should pay for - especially when you consider that the acquistion, refit and downtime probably costs $1m for the in-service frames.
Winglets save more fuel the longer the sector goes, the amount depending on the type of winglet. The tipping point has come now that FR is moving away from the short to the medium hop sector (south of Spain, south of Italy, eastern Europe, Finland etc.) and $62 oil is also a factor. It's not "not proven", it is either appropriate or inappropriate for a given aircraft depending on the usage/sector length. Even on short hops winglets can reduce runway requirements although they may also impact crosswind limits negatively.
Good enough for you?
Have a look on Aviation Partners Boeing's website - they make the "placebos" refits for Hawker XPs, 737s, 757s and probably 763ERs down the road - they discuss the rationale for them there.
Winglets save more fuel the longer the sector goes, the amount depending on the type of winglet. The tipping point has come now that FR is moving away from the short to the medium hop sector (south of Spain, south of Italy, eastern Europe, Finland etc.) and $62 oil is also a factor. It's not "not proven", it is either appropriate or inappropriate for a given aircraft depending on the usage/sector length. Even on short hops winglets can reduce runway requirements although they may also impact crosswind limits negatively.
Good enough for you?
Have a look on Aviation Partners Boeing's website - they make the "placebos" refits for Hawker XPs, 737s, 757s and probably 763ERs down the road - they discuss the rationale for them there.
