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A340 winglet!
Just a quick question. Can an A340 fly with a damaged/hastily repaired winglet?
Maybe a MKA guy could answer! Cheers:ok: |
AFAIK on the 747-400 this is allowed, but with certain performance considerations et al.
If this is the case, I "assume" that similar would apply to A340. Only speculating though, thus waiting to hear the "informed" answer. :ok: |
Another question: Can a 747 freighter fly with damage to the tail/rudder area?
By the way, on the radio there were some immediate recriminations with ATC (Ground) ensuring that everyone knew what her clearance was..... and the A340 crew not committing and complaining about not being able to make the required t/way. Its going to be an interesting insurance claim.:hmm: |
Originally Posted by ANVAK
(Post 3030812)
By the way, on the radio there were some immediate recriminations with ATC (Ground) ensuring that everyone knew what her clearance was..... and the A340 crew not committing and complaining about not being able to make the required t/way. Its going to be an interesting insurance claim.:hmm:
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SA272 JNB-CDG. Happened during the pushback, winglet sliced thru the tailplane and APU of MK freighters B747 at ORTIA on Monday evening at about 22H00B
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Happened during the pushback Will see what happens. MK B747 still parked there today. Cheers |
Just a thought but doesn't it only become an ATC isssue when the aircraft is on the taxiway and an ACSA problem when its still in the bay-we had a similar thing some years ago and were told ATC had nothing to do with us as we weren't on the taxiway.http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/...cons/icon5.gif
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Saw Lufthansa flying into Cape Town with a B744 about 6-7 years ago with no right winglet and on asking the Capt..he replied "it makes no difference" So I wonder why they have winglets??:sad:
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From what I understand regarding winglets, they are neither proven to be more efficeint or economical than if without, except for at a particular level and cruise set up.
So, again, from what I understand, at that particular cruise level and conditions they make the aircraft more efficeint and economical, but perhaps decrease those values getting to that level. Hence, neither one way or the other. If you stick something onto a plane and into the airflow you will 1. increase the weight of the total plane and 2. increase the drag, thats about my level of understanding. |
Really doesnt matter warlock, anything in an airflow creates drag....!
What you have to decide is whether the penalty is greater or less than the advantage gained while in the cruise? |
SC- what you're forgetting is that winglets are there to eliminate (or at least substanially reduce) wingtip vortices caused by air flowing around the edge of the wing from the high pressure area beneath to the lower pressure area on top. Sure, sticking something into the airflow will increase drag, but in this case the increase in drag is more than cancelled out by the decrease in drag caused by the reduction of the wingtip vortices - in all stages of flight.
Warlock's quote above from the MEL - "increase fuel consumption by 1%" - says it all. t |
Yes, you are quite right about wing tip vortices, but you have also added weight to the overall aircraft weight, so therefore more thrust is required to push it along, which means more fuel, which in turn means more weight again, more weight requires more lift, which increases the amount of induced drag...
My point about winglets, is there are definately two schools of thought on them, from what I have read in articles, and I think this is proven by virtue of the fact that not all planes have them, eg. 747-400´, b737-7/800 yes, all the Airbus 320 family no, A340 yes, B757,767,777 no. Explain that ? |
SC – All the Airbuses (310/318/319/320/321) were fitted with winglets, much smaller than the A340 winglets, looks like a delta wing on the tips. Some of the new A320 winglets look like the A340 winglets and even old B727 (private jets) get to be fitted with winglets. The B773 got some funny wing / winglet on the tip of the wing, but I don’t know if it’s a wing tip or winglet.
Seems as if the manufacturers do believe it makes a difference in a/c performance. E |
Eraser...
you are right about the a-320 family, but i was not considering them as winglets, i mean, to be fair, they are something quite different to what the b737 & 747 and a340 have. this is exactly my point, the weight and size of the 'winglets' that airbus use on the a320 family is far less than that of the b737's, and are obviously deemed to do as good a job, so why the huge things on the b737? |
The MK plane was parked like that because they were loading freight through the nose. The SAA plane was instructed to push back far enough to exit via the HOTEL exit, which he acknowledged, and again on taxi, was told to exit via HOTEL, which the acknowledged again, and still taxied straight ahead and struck the MK plane causing damage to the APU door and one of the elevators The SAA flight was delayed by 12 hours because no spare planes were available. It has since been patched up and is flying with one winglet. The MK plane is still on the apron, only departing tonight, nearly a week after the incident. |
Originally Posted by south coast
(Post 3037634)
Eraser...
you are right about the a-320 family, but i was not considering them as winglets, i mean, to be fair, they are something quite different to what the b737 & 747 and a340 have. this is exactly my point, the weight and size of the 'winglets' that airbus use on the a320 family is far less than that of the b737's, and are obviously deemed to do as good a job, so why the huge things on the b737? |
Okay south coast, you're right - I have it on good authority that the eminently qualified aeronautical engineers and designers at Airbus and Boeing just decided to shove winglets on some of their aircraft as a bit of a lark - much like the guys used to do with the rear wing on a '79 Ford Cortina.
It's all a sales gimmick. Please don't tell anybody. |
Originally Posted by Warlock2000
(Post 3035520)
For an A340-300
Winglet: One may be missing provided hole is covered. Increase fuel consumption by 1%. Increase take off and approach climb limiting weight by 2%. Reduce 1 engine inop ceiling by 250'. Max take off weight must not be higher than 260 tons.
Originally Posted by south coast
(Post 3037018)
Yes, you are quite right about wing tip vortices, but you have also added weight to the overall aircraft weight...
Considering these winglets are semi-composite i.e. Lightweight. More Tons = More $$$'s Revenue http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=248914 |
MTOW for A340-300 is 275000 kg's
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Originally Posted by Haaan
(Post 3039936)
MTOW for A340-300 is 275000 kg's
Thus SC, if my maths don't fail me, that equates to 15 Tons "Revenue" per Winglet...:cool: |
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