Bush Pilot vs Airline Pilot
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Bush pilot, who has been an AG Pilot, even better.
The trouble is today the new breed of airline pilot is a systems operator at best. Not their fault as flying skills in Airlines is well down the list of priorities. they are even discouraged from hand flying now, so no real change of any meaningful practice. A lot, if not all Airline Captains I know would be pushed to do a visual circuit. By visual I mean, by visual references not "VFR on instruments" and no use of stop watches etc. Most airline f/o's I know would be pushed to do a visual circuit, period. An airline pilot today is trained as a "robot" who is unable to function without a set of SOP's etc. yes I am aware of the need for sop's.
The bush/ag pilot, more so the one who has the tail wheel experience knows how to use their feet. Don't try and tell me "but we are talking about big jets here". because that's B/S. same basic principals apply. Next time there is a good x-wind at an airport, position your self in line with the runway and watch. You will soon see who can fly an a/c and who cant. You will also notice who has no f****** idea.
A lot of airline pilots are so short sighted they "look down" on bush pilots. Get a lot of this in GA, when and airline pilot will arrive on the seen and insinuate you lot are a load of "bush pilots". To me that is a compliment.
Just my 2 cents worth, as I have done all three types, using aircraft from Piper Cubs to 4 engined heavy jets, (pic).
Where's my tin hat darling? I'm outta here.
The trouble is today the new breed of airline pilot is a systems operator at best. Not their fault as flying skills in Airlines is well down the list of priorities. they are even discouraged from hand flying now, so no real change of any meaningful practice. A lot, if not all Airline Captains I know would be pushed to do a visual circuit. By visual I mean, by visual references not "VFR on instruments" and no use of stop watches etc. Most airline f/o's I know would be pushed to do a visual circuit, period. An airline pilot today is trained as a "robot" who is unable to function without a set of SOP's etc. yes I am aware of the need for sop's.
The bush/ag pilot, more so the one who has the tail wheel experience knows how to use their feet. Don't try and tell me "but we are talking about big jets here". because that's B/S. same basic principals apply. Next time there is a good x-wind at an airport, position your self in line with the runway and watch. You will soon see who can fly an a/c and who cant. You will also notice who has no f****** idea.
A lot of airline pilots are so short sighted they "look down" on bush pilots. Get a lot of this in GA, when and airline pilot will arrive on the seen and insinuate you lot are a load of "bush pilots". To me that is a compliment.
Just my 2 cents worth, as I have done all three types, using aircraft from Piper Cubs to 4 engined heavy jets, (pic).
Where's my tin hat darling? I'm outta here.
Last edited by screwballburling; 8th Jun 2009 at 04:52.
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I might be a bit extreme but I think one is born with good flying skills, or he/she is not. As simple as that.
I tried different types of flying and you can always tell almost straight away if someone is born for flying or not, especially at early stages.
Having said that, you can compensate a bit of lack of natural skills with other stuff like studying a lot, practicing a lot, knowing meteorology very well etc etc etc..
All of this is just to say that it doesn t matter if you are a bush pilot, airline pilot, glider pilot, F16 pilot..what matters is the person and his attitude, as for most things in life, this is why a bush pilot can be better than an airline pilot or the other way around..no written rule.
I tried different types of flying and you can always tell almost straight away if someone is born for flying or not, especially at early stages.
Having said that, you can compensate a bit of lack of natural skills with other stuff like studying a lot, practicing a lot, knowing meteorology very well etc etc etc..
All of this is just to say that it doesn t matter if you are a bush pilot, airline pilot, glider pilot, F16 pilot..what matters is the person and his attitude, as for most things in life, this is why a bush pilot can be better than an airline pilot or the other way around..no written rule.
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I certainly was not an ace from Day 1 , but got through the system and became a safe bush pilot in Kenya for a few thousand hours in the 70s , had a struggle with ( African ) airline operation in the early days because training was so minimal then , you learnt on the line , which was difficult flying with the Pathfinder / Bomber Command captains from the 40s who booked no backchat / SOPS / CRM at all and whose risk taking was legendary so that their 'perfect ' record of landing at destination was quite breathtaking .
I went on to become a Captain at BA and a few other stops on the way .
I am currently flying NGs for a Middle East airline and am coasting towards retirement in 2 to 3 years medical always permitting as I am now 60 , but I know for a fact that all the FO's like flying with me because of my experience . We have to deal with lots of night flights to Indian destinations which are testing at most times , but especially now the Monsoon is kicking in.
I put it all down to the fact that my combination of bush and airline flying has given me a healthy attitude to terrain and weather that a textbook can never buy . I am still challenged by my flying and that is good . I am always staggered by the cockiness of copilots who know it all at 1000 hours TT . I keep quiet and then thoroughly enjoy their discomfort as the weather detiorarates and the rhythm of perfect SOP goes out the window. The ones who recognise their limitations are the ones who go on to be good pilots.
Humility is one of the great aviation virtues but is in short supply these days .
Bush pilot experience rules.
I went on to become a Captain at BA and a few other stops on the way .
I am currently flying NGs for a Middle East airline and am coasting towards retirement in 2 to 3 years medical always permitting as I am now 60 , but I know for a fact that all the FO's like flying with me because of my experience . We have to deal with lots of night flights to Indian destinations which are testing at most times , but especially now the Monsoon is kicking in.
I put it all down to the fact that my combination of bush and airline flying has given me a healthy attitude to terrain and weather that a textbook can never buy . I am still challenged by my flying and that is good . I am always staggered by the cockiness of copilots who know it all at 1000 hours TT . I keep quiet and then thoroughly enjoy their discomfort as the weather detiorarates and the rhythm of perfect SOP goes out the window. The ones who recognise their limitations are the ones who go on to be good pilots.
Humility is one of the great aviation virtues but is in short supply these days .
Bush pilot experience rules.
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I flew 'bush' contracts for about 8 years in Africa and the Middle East, on turbines and jets, and we did some great flying where you have to figure things out for yourself - you get to be able to handle almost anything thrown at you.. poor weather, big mountains, long deserts, bad atc, u/s equipment, no ground beacons or facilities, no viable alternates, sometimes ground fire, major collision risk, unknown airports at night, dodgy runways, bad loading, nil support from home base, inexperienced crews, you name it. We kind of developed a generic way of doing things which kept us safe. Every dodgy experience you lived through added another facet to this 'way', which we could apply for example if we had to land at an unknown dodgy airport at night in heavy weather to ensure we made it safely.
Now I fly for a world-class airline whose SOPS are rigid, we have first-class equipment, all the support and backup we need from home base and generally things go swimmingly - because it's all just repetition of a routine... to good fields, with working equipment, and excellent ATC's.
There's not really any thinking to be done. And when the situation calls for something out of the ordinary I have seen not one but many of the old-hand experienced Captains sweat and panic a little. I'm talking about old ex-fighter pilots here included. Even a tight visual brings on that smell in the cockpit - the sweaty smell of adrenaline. I've seen some pretty poor material in the left hand seat who are there just because their number has come up and who go to pieces under just some slight strain.
I believe those pilots who have had to work things out for themselves in their formative years, and not always had the benefit of good equipment and 100% support (this includes air forces) make the better pilots, the ones who are confident they can make a plan when the chips are down, because they are used to the chips being down.
Now I fly for a world-class airline whose SOPS are rigid, we have first-class equipment, all the support and backup we need from home base and generally things go swimmingly - because it's all just repetition of a routine... to good fields, with working equipment, and excellent ATC's.
There's not really any thinking to be done. And when the situation calls for something out of the ordinary I have seen not one but many of the old-hand experienced Captains sweat and panic a little. I'm talking about old ex-fighter pilots here included. Even a tight visual brings on that smell in the cockpit - the sweaty smell of adrenaline. I've seen some pretty poor material in the left hand seat who are there just because their number has come up and who go to pieces under just some slight strain.
I believe those pilots who have had to work things out for themselves in their formative years, and not always had the benefit of good equipment and 100% support (this includes air forces) make the better pilots, the ones who are confident they can make a plan when the chips are down, because they are used to the chips being down.
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An airline pilot always shades from the hot sun by getting under
a tiled roof structure; his bush flyer counterpart shades under
a tree or a thicket.
I have actually seen some tourist game park flyers taxing their C206s to
thickets at airport taxiways when told to hold while someone else is landing or taking off.
a tiled roof structure; his bush flyer counterpart shades under
a tree or a thicket.
I have actually seen some tourist game park flyers taxing their C206s to
thickets at airport taxiways when told to hold while someone else is landing or taking off.
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boy, try to enjoy some jokes sometimes. In this
profession bitterness or sulking is detrimental to
your mental and flying health.
After a nice flight whether across the game parks or
across cities what you need are a few jokes with
fellow pilots and a glass of wallop.
profession bitterness or sulking is detrimental to
your mental and flying health.
After a nice flight whether across the game parks or
across cities what you need are a few jokes with
fellow pilots and a glass of wallop.
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I fully agree with your discourse, guy. These days those
of us who enjoyed hand flying are really missing the art
of flying: nice handling, good landing with wind fully across
at 20 knots,nice de-crab and touchdown! What a thrill
that gave you!
But now we have all these software and they do everything
for you and you just sit there like a toddler and watch your
animation work it out.
Could be nice there where it tells you how to do the checklist
during abnormals, though, and the protections in vertical and
horizontal axii.
of us who enjoyed hand flying are really missing the art
of flying: nice handling, good landing with wind fully across
at 20 knots,nice de-crab and touchdown! What a thrill
that gave you!
But now we have all these software and they do everything
for you and you just sit there like a toddler and watch your
animation work it out.
Could be nice there where it tells you how to do the checklist
during abnormals, though, and the protections in vertical and
horizontal axii.
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I suppose the best pilot is the one who still walks out to his aircraft, whether a C206 or a B747, and has a healthy respect for the weather, his machine and his own limitations when dealing with the entire operation.
He gets my vote governer.
He gets my vote governer.
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A good curry burns twice!
I don't care! as long as he/she or heshe can cover my arse,(I said cover not covert) when I F-up, can have a beer and a laugh, and of course can fly, this does help considerably!
H/Snort
PS: Remember this! It is somewhat humbling when a F/o you previously disliked immensely, shines on the one in a million occasion that you are unlucky enough to have something serious happen, "never judge" is what it has taught me!
H/Snort
PS: Remember this! It is somewhat humbling when a F/o you previously disliked immensely, shines on the one in a million occasion that you are unlucky enough to have something serious happen, "never judge" is what it has taught me!
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kotakota,
In what I read of this post, my hat's off to you sir! Humility and the phrase "Wait a sec lets think about this" may get one all the way to retirement. It worked for me for 30 years.
In what I read of this post, my hat's off to you sir! Humility and the phrase "Wait a sec lets think about this" may get one all the way to retirement. It worked for me for 30 years.
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"Most Airline pilots have also been Bush pilots at some stage, so obviously the Airline pilot!"
Think of all those integrated or sponsored people. Out of school straight into an airline.
This represents alot of airline personnel.
Think of all those integrated or sponsored people. Out of school straight into an airline. This represents alot of airline personnel.
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Quote: “. Think of all those integrated or sponsored people. Out of school straight into an airline.
This represents alot of airline personnel.”
Only in a few small aviation countries, mainly in Europe. In the two biggest countries in world aviation, the USA and Canada, which together represent well over 40% of world aviation, most pilots work their way up the food chain. The same applies in the fourth largest country, Australia, and to a good extent in Africa.
On the way up these pilots acquire a valuable thing called experience! Their experience makes them much more valuable and safer when the chips are down. You can only learn so much from books or computers. Such pilots with genuine experience also collect a good fund of tall tales for wasting time over a beer or two or three, which makes them better company compared with an academic and computer (Airbus) pilot who has never had a real flying job.
. Think of all those integrated or sponsored people. Out of school straight into an airline. This represents alot of airline personnel.”
Only in a few small aviation countries, mainly in Europe. In the two biggest countries in world aviation, the USA and Canada, which together represent well over 40% of world aviation, most pilots work their way up the food chain. The same applies in the fourth largest country, Australia, and to a good extent in Africa.
On the way up these pilots acquire a valuable thing called experience! Their experience makes them much more valuable and safer when the chips are down. You can only learn so much from books or computers. Such pilots with genuine experience also collect a good fund of tall tales for wasting time over a beer or two or three, which makes them better company compared with an academic and computer (Airbus) pilot who has never had a real flying job.