9 survive Caravan C208B crash landing in N. Tanzania
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Caravan Crash Information
Just to stop all the speculation, the Caravan that crashed on 13 Apr belonged to Mission Aviation Fellowship Tanzania registration 5H-ZBZ a standard 208. It suffered a landing accident at Haydom airfield nothern Tanzania while landing in a thunderstorm. The initial destination was Haydom but the final one was to have been Moshi. All on board were MAF Tanzania staff and there were no injuries. The aircraft ran off the left side of the runway and was damaged by sisal bushes.
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Originally Posted by Soap Box Cowboy
Any more news on this, everything seems very quiet down there. 
Been to TZ for a while, n so many places before n after. But don't understand why so many incidents n accidents in this place of the world (when it comes to aviation) Was told that maintainance very poor there including the bigger airlines based around. Any comment???
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Originally Posted by thrustucantrust
when you tout your business to tourists who expect a level of safety, training and airmanship, comensuarte with what hey take for granted in say europe you should provide it.
So I say well done to the pilot he/she has saved the lives of 9 people.
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MAF aircraft are maintained to a high standard, their crews are also very profficient and highly experienced especially in operating from more remote and difficult strips.
Whilst Africa has a bad reputation in aviation, there is a positive trend to increase safety. Tighter controls and regulations are being inforced and many nations are trying with their limited resources, to improve infastructure and the level and quality of service available.
Africa is in a difficult situation where air transportation is a nescesity of life. There are many places that would recieve no medical care or food aid if there were no aircraft. Some places would even revert to stone age quality of life since they are so remote and isolated that access by anything other than aircraft is impossible or impratical.
This is what causes the creation of companies with lower standards, the profit margins are so small that if you were to operate proffesionally you would be making a loss. This is especially apparent in a country like the Congo, where there is little to no infrastructure left.
But in regards to tourism, the standards are much higher and often exceed the norm. Passengers are more wary of older aircraft and unsafe flying. A bad reputation or accident will see you loosing a buisness as tour operators will no longer use you. It is in the companies intrest to maintain proffesionalism.
But at the end of the day the consumer is also to blame. Many people will take a dodgy aircraft over a well maintained one simply because they wish to save a few dollars. You get what you pay for and if no one uses these lower standard companies they will either cease to exist or be forced to improve themselves.
Africa is improving and hopefully it will continue to do so. But if you look everywhere in the world there are dodgy operators, it is not a unique problem to Africa. We just seem to attract more attention because of it.
Whilst Africa has a bad reputation in aviation, there is a positive trend to increase safety. Tighter controls and regulations are being inforced and many nations are trying with their limited resources, to improve infastructure and the level and quality of service available.
Africa is in a difficult situation where air transportation is a nescesity of life. There are many places that would recieve no medical care or food aid if there were no aircraft. Some places would even revert to stone age quality of life since they are so remote and isolated that access by anything other than aircraft is impossible or impratical.
This is what causes the creation of companies with lower standards, the profit margins are so small that if you were to operate proffesionally you would be making a loss. This is especially apparent in a country like the Congo, where there is little to no infrastructure left.
But in regards to tourism, the standards are much higher and often exceed the norm. Passengers are more wary of older aircraft and unsafe flying. A bad reputation or accident will see you loosing a buisness as tour operators will no longer use you. It is in the companies intrest to maintain proffesionalism.
But at the end of the day the consumer is also to blame. Many people will take a dodgy aircraft over a well maintained one simply because they wish to save a few dollars. You get what you pay for and if no one uses these lower standard companies they will either cease to exist or be forced to improve themselves.
Africa is improving and hopefully it will continue to do so. But if you look everywhere in the world there are dodgy operators, it is not a unique problem to Africa. We just seem to attract more attention because of it.
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[quote=zimoke]It is sad to see that you feel that you are far more superior to the rest of us. By doing a licence we are assesed to a level of training and airmanship, comensurate with ICAO .
Zimoke, that is a very nieve view imho, are you seriously suggesting that signing up to ICAO guarantees that the tenets of that agreement will be enforced impartially in countries where corruption is the norm. A company that you are probably aware of had a tragic accident in the first world and as such are now all doing JAR qualifications and certification after years of having taken dvantage of the rather varied application of ICAO tenets. International convention prevents calling a spade a spade but screw up in a real juristiction and the gloves are off.
I have an African licence and spent a good while operating there so its not superiority but plain facts. Take the example of the deseased deputy director for a certian african dca and his penchant for flying miraa one day and violating miraa pilots the next. i personaly witnessed him trying to shake down a colleague for money in his capacity as a senior civil servant. I gave him short shrift (the colleague was unaware of his M.O).Where is that in the ICAO documents? Not heresay or urban myth...fact. This form of corruption of the integrity of aviation safety is the root of the problem and even the safer companies are forced to play ball to some extent, so infected is the system. Paying school fees is a bribe just as much as a free sheep is or a brown envelope full of readies. I doubt even the great and holy MAF are exempt a bit of coercion. Otherwise the sourbriquet Magendo air force wouldnt have been coined.
tuct
Zimoke, that is a very nieve view imho, are you seriously suggesting that signing up to ICAO guarantees that the tenets of that agreement will be enforced impartially in countries where corruption is the norm. A company that you are probably aware of had a tragic accident in the first world and as such are now all doing JAR qualifications and certification after years of having taken dvantage of the rather varied application of ICAO tenets. International convention prevents calling a spade a spade but screw up in a real juristiction and the gloves are off.
I have an African licence and spent a good while operating there so its not superiority but plain facts. Take the example of the deseased deputy director for a certian african dca and his penchant for flying miraa one day and violating miraa pilots the next. i personaly witnessed him trying to shake down a colleague for money in his capacity as a senior civil servant. I gave him short shrift (the colleague was unaware of his M.O).Where is that in the ICAO documents? Not heresay or urban myth...fact. This form of corruption of the integrity of aviation safety is the root of the problem and even the safer companies are forced to play ball to some extent, so infected is the system. Paying school fees is a bribe just as much as a free sheep is or a brown envelope full of readies. I doubt even the great and holy MAF are exempt a bit of coercion. Otherwise the sourbriquet Magendo air force wouldnt have been coined.
tuct
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Thrustyoucantrust
I must admit African aviation has been given a bad name by the few.
I have an American and South Sfrican licence. I certainly found the South African the most demanding, and as for the JAA i am half way through the ground exams and am finding them if anything easier than the SA( ICAO) ones. As for the quality of flight training over here in the U.K. the only difference that i can find is the price.
The idea that because I have flown for a charter company in Tanzania make me or the many more like me less professional and some how tared with this stigma is ridiculous
All I am saying to you is dont put everyone in the same Box. I found that flying in Tanzania has made me a more proficient and adaptable pilot, and feel that I am more able to deal with situations than I was when pounding a scheduled route day in and day out.
cheers
Zimoke
I must admit African aviation has been given a bad name by the few.
I have an American and South Sfrican licence. I certainly found the South African the most demanding, and as for the JAA i am half way through the ground exams and am finding them if anything easier than the SA( ICAO) ones. As for the quality of flight training over here in the U.K. the only difference that i can find is the price.
The idea that because I have flown for a charter company in Tanzania make me or the many more like me less professional and some how tared with this stigma is ridiculous
All I am saying to you is dont put everyone in the same Box. I found that flying in Tanzania has made me a more proficient and adaptable pilot, and feel that I am more able to deal with situations than I was when pounding a scheduled route day in and day out.
cheers
Zimoke
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Well done.
I gather the ITCZ is having an 'active' year this time as it passes through East Africa . Pleased to hear of the rain because , my God they need it , but it is the time when the 'easy' days of blissful flying in Tanzania/Kenya/Uganda are replaced by ' I'd gladly give all the money back today so that I can mow the lawn / have a beer / watch a DVD instead ' days which we all remember so well. My days of flying Tanzania/Kenya were before the time of GPS , and we buried a few friends who tried to ' maintain VMC ' when it patently was not going to be possible. Job pressures were great at the time , but there were so many fatals in a short period that finally even the 'bwanas' had outbreaks of being sensible and turning back became much more common and safety took precedence.
Not sure about the 400 km diversion , but 2-300 were common to find a gap in the wall that is the ITCZ.
Unless you have flown out there , it is hard to comprehend the terrain/ high MSA's which are difficult enough on sunny days , but impossible on ITCZ days.
The Caravan incident should be treated with more respect than some offer in this forum. Try landing on a red-earth airstrip which has received a couple of inches of rain ( they all have so don't just say divert ) with an adjacent CB and its gusty winds , a fuel gauge that is glaring at you , and then lets hear your opinion.
I say well done to the man and if he is an MAF operator -extra respect - they earn it in spades all year round.
Not sure about the 400 km diversion , but 2-300 were common to find a gap in the wall that is the ITCZ.
Unless you have flown out there , it is hard to comprehend the terrain/ high MSA's which are difficult enough on sunny days , but impossible on ITCZ days.
The Caravan incident should be treated with more respect than some offer in this forum. Try landing on a red-earth airstrip which has received a couple of inches of rain ( they all have so don't just say divert ) with an adjacent CB and its gusty winds , a fuel gauge that is glaring at you , and then lets hear your opinion.
I say well done to the man and if he is an MAF operator -extra respect - they earn it in spades all year round.
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Originally Posted by kotakota
I gather the ITCZ is having an 'active' year this time as it passes through East Africa . Pleased to hear of the rain because , my God they need it , but it is the time when the 'easy' days of blissful flying in Tanzania/Kenya/Uganda are replaced by ' I'd gladly give all the money back today so that I can mow the lawn / have a beer / watch a DVD instead ' days which we all remember so well. My days of flying Tanzania/Kenya were before the time of GPS , and we buried a few friends who tried to ' maintain VMC ' when it patently was not going to be possible. Job pressures were great at the time , but there were so many fatals in a short period that finally even the 'bwanas' had outbreaks of being sensible and turning back became much more common and safety took precedence.
Not sure about the 400 km diversion , but 2-300 were common to find a gap in the wall that is the ITCZ.
Unless you have flown out there , it is hard to comprehend the terrain/ high MSA's which are difficult enough on sunny days , but impossible on ITCZ days.
The Caravan incident should be treated with more respect than some offer in this forum. Try landing on a red-earth airstrip which has received a couple of inches of rain ( they all have so don't just say divert ) with an adjacent CB and its gusty winds , a fuel gauge that is glaring at you , and then lets hear your opinion.
I say well done to the man and if he is an MAF operator -extra respect - they earn it in spades all year round.
Not sure about the 400 km diversion , but 2-300 were common to find a gap in the wall that is the ITCZ.
Unless you have flown out there , it is hard to comprehend the terrain/ high MSA's which are difficult enough on sunny days , but impossible on ITCZ days.
The Caravan incident should be treated with more respect than some offer in this forum. Try landing on a red-earth airstrip which has received a couple of inches of rain ( they all have so don't just say divert ) with an adjacent CB and its gusty winds , a fuel gauge that is glaring at you , and then lets hear your opinion.
I say well done to the man and if he is an MAF operator -extra respect - they earn it in spades all year round.
Zimoke.
I hear you, followed the same route. However You MAY find that alot of what you rightly see as an asset is inapplicable in Jar land and only makes a good story in the cruise.. Otherwise they wouldnt be giving out 7378 left seats to 2800 hr (or less) pilots who are ex cadets in europe, and have zero bush or initiative based experience.It just isnt relevant to the operation they are usually very good at. If you are not command rated you may find yourself f/o to a pilot who has no concept of your previous day to day and quite frankly doesnt care, he may alsohave a command on that jet in less hours than you needed for the van or otter. Many employers shy away from high time ex bush pilots as i found to my cost in the early days, I wouldnt emphasise it at interview.If you have made an early departure from the bush to get into europe then you have made the right move. I waited too long.(10 yrs) Good luck.
As for the JAR licence, well I did a national licence pre jar, and agree that the Jar has watered down the system but its the adherence to the rules and proceedure that is the big difference.
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Time to exit the closet. Disclaimers first: I'm a lurker for many years and a mostly SLF, almost PPL so far. 
The flight was indeed a MAF flight, and I've flown with both the van now stranded at Haydom, and with the pilot in charge of the flight. I have nothing more than high regard and praise as to the professionalism of MAF; men, aircraft and operations.
That said, the flight was to my knowledge staffed with two MAF crew and the remainder being staff related to Haydom Lutheran Hospital, having done their weekly rounds of the medical outposts.
There are pictures of the craft, and it it still at Haydom, contact me by email for links.
ph-ndr
The flight was indeed a MAF flight, and I've flown with both the van now stranded at Haydom, and with the pilot in charge of the flight. I have nothing more than high regard and praise as to the professionalism of MAF; men, aircraft and operations.
That said, the flight was to my knowledge staffed with two MAF crew and the remainder being staff related to Haydom Lutheran Hospital, having done their weekly rounds of the medical outposts.
There are pictures of the craft, and it it still at Haydom, contact me by email for links.
ph-ndr
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Hi PH-NDR,
Welcome to the club!
Can I ask where you have your information from?
I see you are in Europe, Holland I assume by your name?
BTW according to AlanAfrica as you can read in his earlier post
has stated it was all MAF Staff with final destination Moshi.
Grtz, Herbie
Welcome to the club!
Can I ask where you have your information from?
I see you are in Europe, Holland I assume by your name?
BTW according to AlanAfrica as you can read in his earlier post
has stated it was all MAF Staff with final destination Moshi.
Grtz, Herbie
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Tanzanian flying
Hi you guys.Its yet again sad to hear of another accident in Tanzania but thankfully this time no one was killed.I have just come back from 18 months there and the ITCZ is indeed active,more so this year than previously.
Where do we look for the answers for the high accident/incident rate that East Africa seems to have.In my time in Tanzania our operation had filed over 30 incident reports to the TCCA most of which were ATC related and many of them could have been fatal with the loss of many lives.
To date and after many visits to the TCAA none of the incidents have been investigated,so where does this leave us.
I am of the opinion that the TCAA does not have the correct expertise and staff numbers to cope with the huge shortfalls in aviation within their borders and seem reluctant to accept help from those who have the necessary experience to improve and upgrade their standards first.
With general aviation in Tanzania it has become evident to me that there is a distinct lack of aviation discipline and basic airmanship amongst the pilots,but this is only there because the TCAA is weak and very ineffectual and lawlessness rules the skies.
In closing I must add that ATC training has been implemented and there has been a noticable improvement with approach and radar control.I hope the training continues for all our sakes
To all my flying friends out there keep safe and turn back if you cant reach your destination for whatever reason.
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Tanzanian aviation Community is small and if a pilot is below standard he will soon find himself without a job and no one to fly for.
It's has improved over the past few years, Radar is getting better but maintenance issues still plague it like many other african countries.
The toureism industry is becoming less accepting of Cowboy style flying and many operators will find buisness migrating to other companies. Several companies are raising their standards in regard to this, you can tell who the descent operators are by looking at who their clientel is.
On the whole the aviation scene in Tanzania is on the up and getting more proffesional and better every year. It is in stark contrast to the years before anyone who has been there long enough will have seen the diffrences.
It's has improved over the past few years, Radar is getting better but maintenance issues still plague it like many other african countries.
The toureism industry is becoming less accepting of Cowboy style flying and many operators will find buisness migrating to other companies. Several companies are raising their standards in regard to this, you can tell who the descent operators are by looking at who their clientel is.
On the whole the aviation scene in Tanzania is on the up and getting more proffesional and better every year. It is in stark contrast to the years before anyone who has been there long enough will have seen the diffrences.
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In Kesho’s post on 20 April he ends with: “Why did the fan stop?” This has not been answered. Did the aircraft land with the engine still operating normally or did the engine stop and the aircraft make a forced landing, although apparently on an airfield?
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As "Alan Africa" has said earlier in this post the aircraft ran off the runway during landing, difficult conditions caused by the proximity of a Thunderstorm. The Fan stopped because the pilot turned it off after touch down.
I have heard great things about MAF maintenance and have seen and heard them flying around out here, they are very proffesional, and the pilots I have spoken too are very knowlegable about their aircraft and procedure's.
I have heard great things about MAF maintenance and have seen and heard them flying around out here, they are very proffesional, and the pilots I have spoken too are very knowlegable about their aircraft and procedure's.
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Difference?
"On the whole the aviation scene in Tanzania is on the up and getting more professional and better every year. It is in stark contrast to the years before "
How the aviation in Tanzania can change if the people on top are alwayes the same for over 20 years?
Change dress but the mentality is the same.What Tanzania need is change those people with Mafia attitude that has been running for over 20 years.
what we call FRESH AIR.
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
How the aviation in Tanzania can change if the people on top are alwayes the same for over 20 years?
Change dress but the mentality is the same.What Tanzania need is change those people with Mafia attitude that has been running for over 20 years.
what we call FRESH AIR.
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
