Just for Afriaviation (covered up incident)
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Just for Afriaviation (covered up incident)
Since you are with SAA, maybe you can shed some light on an incident going into George a while back.
The story goes...738 into George with 2, lets call them accelerated pilots,flying together.The co-jo was a cadett.
Not sure about the weather but they had to shoot the ILS (instrument landing system).
El capitano decides he will show his new co-jo how the heads up should be flown. long story short, he cocks it up and is hot high and wide and at the last minute decides to go around, idle to full thrust. One engine spools up faster than the other and enduces a roll and banked turn as they climb away. No corrective action taken as they go off the missed approach and just blatantly continue towards the mountains!
Some how they miss Hansie hill and diverted.
An incident was filled by ATC immediately as they tracked the radar event.
Funny thing is, it was covered up faster than Mugabe's election. NICE!
Still want to force the "non-experienced pilot get the numbers right" issue?
The story goes...738 into George with 2, lets call them accelerated pilots,flying together.The co-jo was a cadett.
Not sure about the weather but they had to shoot the ILS (instrument landing system).
El capitano decides he will show his new co-jo how the heads up should be flown. long story short, he cocks it up and is hot high and wide and at the last minute decides to go around, idle to full thrust. One engine spools up faster than the other and enduces a roll and banked turn as they climb away. No corrective action taken as they go off the missed approach and just blatantly continue towards the mountains!
Some how they miss Hansie hill and diverted.
An incident was filled by ATC immediately as they tracked the radar event.
Funny thing is, it was covered up faster than Mugabe's election. NICE!
Still want to force the "non-experienced pilot get the numbers right" issue?
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Hmmm ... think u totally have the wrong end of the stick. The only 1 i know of in GRJ was with 2 VERY white crew, co-pilot was very experienced. I can't pass judgement on the actions of the crew, as i was not there.
But think there is room for discussion on the use of HUD on CAT I approaches. Also Highlights how easy a go around goes wrong.
I detect a hint of racism in the thread. I am not defending the cadet program, I agree it is largely expensive window dressing. But i will say that when they get to SAA, they are mostly capable of doing the job.
But think there is room for discussion on the use of HUD on CAT I approaches. Also Highlights how easy a go around goes wrong.
I detect a hint of racism in the thread. I am not defending the cadet program, I agree it is largely expensive window dressing. But i will say that when they get to SAA, they are mostly capable of doing the job.
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Like i said first up, wanted to shed some light on the matter as the grape vine these days tends to distort things some what.
The thread is aimed at forcing inexperienced pilots into a situation they can not handle, just to suit the polititions. That is a serious safety risk! And there are white cadetts as well so its about experience or lack there of, not race.
Afri seems hell bent on forcing this issue so i wanted to know if that is more important than the lives onboard? Maybe then we can put this race vs experience thing to bed for once and for all!
The thread is aimed at forcing inexperienced pilots into a situation they can not handle, just to suit the polititions. That is a serious safety risk! And there are white cadetts as well so its about experience or lack there of, not race.
Afri seems hell bent on forcing this issue so i wanted to know if that is more important than the lives onboard? Maybe then we can put this race vs experience thing to bed for once and for all!
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Blah,blah, blah, blah ,blah ...................blah,
Mr. Fish this is all you seem to do! Your inexperienced comments indicate just how little you actually know about airline operations in general!
Your comment in another thread about the 'wrong people' doing the job was totally ignorant as you obviously aren't aware of the number of ABP's that would be needed to carry a certain number of SPATS.(Terminology to be found in Airline Operations 101)
You have total 'DUFF GEN' on the incident you have posted and have made a complete fool of yourself with some of your comments made - hence my deduction of your knowledge of airline operations!
Maybe it would be better to make comments that have been slightly more researched!
I also agree with Avi8tor about a hint of racism in your post - either you deal with employment equity because it's not going away or you go somewhere else. Then we won't have to put up with comments you make about aviation in SA
Mr. Fish this is all you seem to do! Your inexperienced comments indicate just how little you actually know about airline operations in general!
Your comment in another thread about the 'wrong people' doing the job was totally ignorant as you obviously aren't aware of the number of ABP's that would be needed to carry a certain number of SPATS.(Terminology to be found in Airline Operations 101)
You have total 'DUFF GEN' on the incident you have posted and have made a complete fool of yourself with some of your comments made - hence my deduction of your knowledge of airline operations!
Maybe it would be better to make comments that have been slightly more researched!
I also agree with Avi8tor about a hint of racism in your post - either you deal with employment equity because it's not going away or you go somewhere else. Then we won't have to put up with comments you make about aviation in SA
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Oh gawd, here we go again....
This sort of thread (and I include Afrivations thread in the same category) is an embarrasment to all of us.
Lets stop this pettiness before we become the laughing stock of the rest of the world. We are meant to be professionals after all.
This sort of thread (and I include Afrivations thread in the same category) is an embarrasment to all of us.
Lets stop this pettiness before we become the laughing stock of the rest of the world. We are meant to be professionals after all.
Last edited by wheels up; 26th Mar 2006 at 10:35.
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Best to just shut up sometimes
Blah Blah Fishpaste,
sometimes its just best to keep quiet when you're not too sure about something. You've now made yourself look like an even bigger fool.
AP
sometimes its just best to keep quiet when you're not too sure about something. You've now made yourself look like an even bigger fool.
AP
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In response to Mr Paste............
I have heard the following version of the incident you are refering to:
El Capitano was a fresh training capt (slightly accelerated due to the lack of trainers, but white none the less....thanx Avi8tor)
Sandsak was ....as stated by Avi8tor.....a very experienced co-jo. Whether he was a cadet or nor does not matter because some of his actions saved the day.
It is very easy to critisize if you do not have the "big picture". Sure, mistakes were made, but whom of us has never cooked it a bit????? The HUD, so I was told, is not a very easy tool to use as it sometimes get you into the "tunnel vision" situation whereas you tend to focus too much on the vast information displayed and thus neglegt to look "through" the HUD.
They were hot and high as you stated and was not perfectly aligned with the centerline during the last part of the approach. They thus ended up a bit deep, tried to "force" it down, but realised they were going to end up in the grass if they do in fact touch down, and decided to get the hell out of there.
On the 738 you are able to engage reverse thrust if the radio-altitude is below 10'. Being a bit hot and high, this is what the Capt apparently did...ie cracked reverse before touch down...and when they decided to get out of there, the one engine was still cracked open in reverse whilst the other engine started to spool up to go-around thrust.
I can only image with horror the blur of hands and feet in that cockpit!!! Your statement about nobody doing anything to safe the day, thus heading for Hansie's Peak is totally untrue. It took a lot of good piloting and CRM to stay afloat and not crash...it was very close I believe.
I have heard the following version of the incident you are refering to:
El Capitano was a fresh training capt (slightly accelerated due to the lack of trainers, but white none the less....thanx Avi8tor)
Sandsak was ....as stated by Avi8tor.....a very experienced co-jo. Whether he was a cadet or nor does not matter because some of his actions saved the day.
It is very easy to critisize if you do not have the "big picture". Sure, mistakes were made, but whom of us has never cooked it a bit????? The HUD, so I was told, is not a very easy tool to use as it sometimes get you into the "tunnel vision" situation whereas you tend to focus too much on the vast information displayed and thus neglegt to look "through" the HUD.
They were hot and high as you stated and was not perfectly aligned with the centerline during the last part of the approach. They thus ended up a bit deep, tried to "force" it down, but realised they were going to end up in the grass if they do in fact touch down, and decided to get the hell out of there.
On the 738 you are able to engage reverse thrust if the radio-altitude is below 10'. Being a bit hot and high, this is what the Capt apparently did...ie cracked reverse before touch down...and when they decided to get out of there, the one engine was still cracked open in reverse whilst the other engine started to spool up to go-around thrust.
I can only image with horror the blur of hands and feet in that cockpit!!! Your statement about nobody doing anything to safe the day, thus heading for Hansie's Peak is totally untrue. It took a lot of good piloting and CRM to stay afloat and not crash...it was very close I believe.
