How to Fly African style and live to talk about it
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How to Fly African style and live to talk about it
Dear PPruners
This is for those who have been there, done that and got the shirt (or are there, doing that and getting the shirt). We all know that African aviation is not up to western standards but is slowly crawling up there. So in the next 5, 10, 25, 50 or 200 years it takes us to get there, those of us stuck here need a few tips on how to stay alive and safe.
How do we deal with the common potentially dangerous operationg scenarios we might find ourselves in?
Some common scenarios are:
1. 6 captains, 6 SOPs or 6 Captains, No SOPs - a lot of companies do not have SOPs or SOPs are not used across the board forcing FOs to memorise every captain's procedure.
2. Operating below wx minimums
3. Operating aircraft outside the book - overloading, using a/c for ops it wasn't designed for, incompetent crew
4. Inadequate training or lack of training
etc
What do we do if we find ourselves in such situations?
Yours Truly
Capt. Manuvar
This is for those who have been there, done that and got the shirt (or are there, doing that and getting the shirt). We all know that African aviation is not up to western standards but is slowly crawling up there. So in the next 5, 10, 25, 50 or 200 years it takes us to get there, those of us stuck here need a few tips on how to stay alive and safe.
How do we deal with the common potentially dangerous operationg scenarios we might find ourselves in?
Some common scenarios are:
1. 6 captains, 6 SOPs or 6 Captains, No SOPs - a lot of companies do not have SOPs or SOPs are not used across the board forcing FOs to memorise every captain's procedure.
2. Operating below wx minimums
3. Operating aircraft outside the book - overloading, using a/c for ops it wasn't designed for, incompetent crew
4. Inadequate training or lack of training
etc
What do we do if we find ourselves in such situations?
Yours Truly
Capt. Manuvar
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Faint......?
We've all been in the situation and it can get pretty tricky. It's not always the easiest thing to do but being selective about who you work for is a good start.
We've all been in the situation and it can get pretty tricky. It's not always the easiest thing to do but being selective about who you work for is a good start.
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Have the shirt and was fortunate to do it in a plane made for the job, the C208 Caravan. Can't help you with number one regarding SOPs, but you can certainly help with 2 and 3. Don't break weather minima and don't fly overloaded aircraft. If the crew is incompetent, make sure you're not on that flight. And number 4, with bush flying you learn as you go.
What sort of inadequate training are you talking about? Not proper type ratings, not IF rated. Unfortunatly it's not easy to train someone to do mountain flying or operate from tight strips unless you get some proper line training when you first start. You can read all the books you like.
The worst part of flying in the sticks are the chaps in flip-flops with AK47's over their shoulders and being harassed for money passport etc. But you soon learn to deal with it. Always carry Imodium and a bottle of water, also those wet-wipes. Everyone wants to shake your hand, and hygiene is questionable at best. However, enjoy it while it lasts cause it's great fun.
What sort of inadequate training are you talking about? Not proper type ratings, not IF rated. Unfortunatly it's not easy to train someone to do mountain flying or operate from tight strips unless you get some proper line training when you first start. You can read all the books you like.
The worst part of flying in the sticks are the chaps in flip-flops with AK47's over their shoulders and being harassed for money passport etc. But you soon learn to deal with it. Always carry Imodium and a bottle of water, also those wet-wipes. Everyone wants to shake your hand, and hygiene is questionable at best. However, enjoy it while it lasts cause it's great fun.
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Having just come back alive from my daily patrol through Nigeria Airspace, I just have to post a comment or two here. The fact that any flights into or out of Lagos actually make it through alive must be by sheer accident and not design. Problem is that one get so used to the total lack of Air Traffic Control.
Just an example from today. Approaching "The Centre Of Excellence" and listening to the R/T, I had to shake my head.There was a total lack of Radio Discipline with especialy the local carriers loving to transmit anytime they choose.They probably think that their have a right to break into another aircraft's transmission. We were then placed under radar control and given a heading to steer. Going through 10 000, I started noticing that the controller was asking for level passing and DME maybe a little to much for someone that should be staring at the information in front of him.
Since I'm still barreling along on the heading I was given to steer,I asked him whether we're still under Radar Control, he just said No and that the Radar had failed.I then suggested, that since he does'nt know where we are anymore, we maybe head towards LAG.He also thought it was a good idea.A couple of minutes later we get told that we are under radar control again and was given another heading to steer.Just as we are about to go through the localiser, I suggested that a turn at this point might be a good idea. He agreed and cleared us for the approach.
Now,if this sort of thing happens once a month, one sort of looks away, but tomorrow, I've got to do it all over again and endure more of the same.Better that I not get started on Port Harcourt as nobody wants to read a 10 page post.
Just an example from today. Approaching "The Centre Of Excellence" and listening to the R/T, I had to shake my head.There was a total lack of Radio Discipline with especialy the local carriers loving to transmit anytime they choose.They probably think that their have a right to break into another aircraft's transmission. We were then placed under radar control and given a heading to steer. Going through 10 000, I started noticing that the controller was asking for level passing and DME maybe a little to much for someone that should be staring at the information in front of him.
Since I'm still barreling along on the heading I was given to steer,I asked him whether we're still under Radar Control, he just said No and that the Radar had failed.I then suggested, that since he does'nt know where we are anymore, we maybe head towards LAG.He also thought it was a good idea.A couple of minutes later we get told that we are under radar control again and was given another heading to steer.Just as we are about to go through the localiser, I suggested that a turn at this point might be a good idea. He agreed and cleared us for the approach.
Now,if this sort of thing happens once a month, one sort of looks away, but tomorrow, I've got to do it all over again and endure more of the same.Better that I not get started on Port Harcourt as nobody wants to read a 10 page post.
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And what I find amazing is that they have to 'study' the problems, get some 'committees of enquiry' going, appoint investigators etc....as if most of the problems aren't blindingly obvious. I suppose it's easy to complain.
And to add to the the topic, I think SRT nailed it there - be picky about who you work for. Nobody likes to be forced into working against their principles, and having to fight your company all the time just makes you the enemy. Find somebody who's mostly on your side, and you'll save yourself a lot of headaches. The SOP thing always rears it's not so pretty head I've found, again, a good company should have a competent CP and training department, not only to keep up with all the proff checks for guys out in the field, but to provide clear and relevant guidance for the difficult conditions and produce (and ensure adherence to!) useable SOP's. The best I've dealt with was the last CP of Rossair (RB) who was a very good example of how to do something like that. In my humble opinion.
And to add to the the topic, I think SRT nailed it there - be picky about who you work for. Nobody likes to be forced into working against their principles, and having to fight your company all the time just makes you the enemy. Find somebody who's mostly on your side, and you'll save yourself a lot of headaches. The SOP thing always rears it's not so pretty head I've found, again, a good company should have a competent CP and training department, not only to keep up with all the proff checks for guys out in the field, but to provide clear and relevant guidance for the difficult conditions and produce (and ensure adherence to!) useable SOP's. The best I've dealt with was the last CP of Rossair (RB) who was a very good example of how to do something like that. In my humble opinion.
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Operate by the laws, by the POH and by your own limits. If ALL pilots implemented these rules, there wouldnt even have to be a discussion on how to survive. Its because pilots operate outside of these, that the operators think they can get away with 'forcing' and manipulating especially the younger guys into doing things they are not supposed to. Put your ego in your pocket and do it by the book. I know this because I was always the one willing to go below Wx minima, overload, and do just about anything to prove myself. I was one of those about whom I speak, and have since realised that its not worth it, and that you actually damage the industry for the rest of the guys that have to walk the path. The answers are already all there for you, CATS CARS LAW and POH, the only one left to implement is to stick to YOUR OWN PERSONAL LIMITS.
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One bit of small advice to those with not so many hours... Get used to NOT getting in... In Africa and similar places you're very much your own policeman...we've all used some sort of Grandmothers let down to fields that we're familiar with...and at times know that we can probably get in on the 2nd attempt if we just get the numbers lined up a bit more accurately... and you probably will. But sometimes...just don't bother....go somewhere else and get used to the feeling that you won't ALWAYS get in...it's easier to deal with diverting if you don't turn it into an extremely rare event...
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Push the boundaries long enough and the laws of probablility will eventually get you. Remember, you have one chance only.
Then again the CATS and CARS are to a large extent designed for an airline environment, not a contract environment. I am sure that if everyone followed them to the T no contract aircraft would every fly.
My criteria is - is it safe?? You can be legal and unsafe, and you can be technically illegal but perfectly safe. A correctly rated 200 hr com can legally fly an instrument approach at Nelspruit in a complex light twin, packed with passengers, down to minima. Legal - yes. Safe - no.
GPS approach into a strip in the desert - legal - no. Safe - yes (no terrain)
For instance some minor category C MEL item fails (doesn't affect flight safety). You got 10 days to fix it or aircraft grounded. In many cases the spare will sit in customs for a month - what do you do - ground the aircraft, or just not write the item in the folio?
Flight and duty periods are also largely designed for an airline environment. For instance we work on a 5 week rotation - don't really need the day off once a week since there is b. all to do out here anyway - not like you are going to go and hang out with your mates at the beach. Bear in mind that on some days we might only fly an hour or two at most. Surely the CAA should grant dispensations based on the operators particular operating environment?
Then again the CATS and CARS are to a large extent designed for an airline environment, not a contract environment. I am sure that if everyone followed them to the T no contract aircraft would every fly.
My criteria is - is it safe?? You can be legal and unsafe, and you can be technically illegal but perfectly safe. A correctly rated 200 hr com can legally fly an instrument approach at Nelspruit in a complex light twin, packed with passengers, down to minima. Legal - yes. Safe - no.
GPS approach into a strip in the desert - legal - no. Safe - yes (no terrain)
For instance some minor category C MEL item fails (doesn't affect flight safety). You got 10 days to fix it or aircraft grounded. In many cases the spare will sit in customs for a month - what do you do - ground the aircraft, or just not write the item in the folio?
Flight and duty periods are also largely designed for an airline environment. For instance we work on a 5 week rotation - don't really need the day off once a week since there is b. all to do out here anyway - not like you are going to go and hang out with your mates at the beach. Bear in mind that on some days we might only fly an hour or two at most. Surely the CAA should grant dispensations based on the operators particular operating environment?
Last edited by Woof etc; 25th Jan 2006 at 09:58.
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A great deal of wisdom so far in this thread I’d reckon. And a very good question.
You know Twotters, it’s all very well to say choose your boss, yes, a great idea, but you can’t choose the a/c which is going to frighten you. You are doing things by the book, but other fool is breaking all the rules and regs. It’s all a question of putting the odds as far in your favour as you can.
It’s a problem which always worried me when I was boring holes in the African ky and I have no idea what the solution is except “Education, education, education” (apologies Tone). How you implement it, well, that’s another story. No useful ideas here.
Maybe subtly, leaving magazines around with good articles, highlighted, pictures of broken aeroplanes, that sort of thing ? Bit of a feeble one oTd.
The only thing you can say is that African aviation works* – and thank the Lord for 126·9.
* most of the time.
oTd
You know Twotters, it’s all very well to say choose your boss, yes, a great idea, but you can’t choose the a/c which is going to frighten you. You are doing things by the book, but other fool is breaking all the rules and regs. It’s all a question of putting the odds as far in your favour as you can.
It’s a problem which always worried me when I was boring holes in the African ky and I have no idea what the solution is except “Education, education, education” (apologies Tone). How you implement it, well, that’s another story. No useful ideas here.
Maybe subtly, leaving magazines around with good articles, highlighted, pictures of broken aeroplanes, that sort of thing ? Bit of a feeble one oTd.
The only thing you can say is that African aviation works* – and thank the Lord for 126·9.
* most of the time.
oTd
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All good points, OTD. Unfortunately there are operators to whom the regulations do not apply. These are the ones to avoid. Point taken about the other fools out there but that could happen crossing the road back home.
As for leaving magazines with pictures lying around, well some folks are just thick skinned. Best you abide by the rules at all times and within the constraints of flight safety while avoiding those situations where superior skill is required because superior judgement was lacking. Most contract guys I know are looking for that nice safe airline job because the lifestyle is extremely stressful and tiring. It's a young man's game, no mistake. The young, however, are not always as wily and as catfoot as us old buggers....
As for leaving magazines with pictures lying around, well some folks are just thick skinned. Best you abide by the rules at all times and within the constraints of flight safety while avoiding those situations where superior skill is required because superior judgement was lacking. Most contract guys I know are looking for that nice safe airline job because the lifestyle is extremely stressful and tiring. It's a young man's game, no mistake. The young, however, are not always as wily and as catfoot as us old buggers....
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I think a good question to ask yourself before doing something that you know is dodgy, is : 1.Are you willing to carry the can when it all goes wrong?
Because IPSO FACTO if you have broken any laws/rules, its your ass in the sling, the insurance companies love to find anything on the PILOT'S side which can relieve them of paying out.
Think about it.....fly SAFELY
Because IPSO FACTO if you have broken any laws/rules, its your ass in the sling, the insurance companies love to find anything on the PILOT'S side which can relieve them of paying out.
Think about it.....fly SAFELY
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Show me the Money.
Another way do deal with company's putting pressure on you to do dodgy things is to demand more money.
Most of us sign elaborate contracts with our company's where they make us promise not to brake the aerie's or fly outside of the rules, alot of the time this all goes for a ball the minute you arrive infield for your contract.
So if your operator then asks you do do something illegal tell them that your contract conditions were only for operations within the legal parameters of the cats/cars and that if they want you to do illegal stuff they will have to pay you more money.
This sets a financially dangerous precident for company management.
Guaranteed they will back off with the request.
Most of us sign elaborate contracts with our company's where they make us promise not to brake the aerie's or fly outside of the rules, alot of the time this all goes for a ball the minute you arrive infield for your contract.
So if your operator then asks you do do something illegal tell them that your contract conditions were only for operations within the legal parameters of the cats/cars and that if they want you to do illegal stuff they will have to pay you more money.
This sets a financially dangerous precident for company management.
Guaranteed they will back off with the request.
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For instance some minor category C MEL item fails (doesn't affect flight safety). You got 10 days to fix it or aircraft grounded. In many cases the spare will sit in customs for a month - what do you do - ground the aircraft, or just not write the item in the folio?
wolf, i disagree with this and this was a huge talking point for me while flying for a sa operator.
whats the point in having a technical log if you just manipulate it to suite your company...there are reasons why manufacturers classify items into certain amounts of days...
all the way through this thread, people have said to follow the regs, the sop's and afm, so why dismiss the mel?
wolf, i disagree with this and this was a huge talking point for me while flying for a sa operator.
whats the point in having a technical log if you just manipulate it to suite your company...there are reasons why manufacturers classify items into certain amounts of days...
all the way through this thread, people have said to follow the regs, the sop's and afm, so why dismiss the mel?
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I'm doing that and getting the shirt. This is my first contract so I won't preach. I'm on contract with a bunch of very nice captains and what they've taught come's down to to things, don't exceed the aircraft limits and don't exceed your own. I know it's already been said, but it should be emphasised. If the captain wants you to do something you're not comfortable with, just tell him you're not happy to do that. If you end up with a company putting you in bad situations leave now, before you become a smidge on a mountain.
That's my opinion
That's my opinion
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I.r.pirate
"Think about it.....fly SAFELY"
Sure how about the pairs of wings left over from chicken brest ?
"the only one left to implement is to stick to YOUR OWN PERSONAL LIMITS."
Long list of limitations ,nothing to do with the limitited room offer to you from tha E... Airline ,due to brain size?
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
"Sure how about the pairs of wings left over from chicken brest ?
"the only one left to implement is to stick to YOUR OWN PERSONAL LIMITS."
Long list of limitations ,nothing to do with the limitited room offer to you from tha E... Airline ,due to brain size?
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
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Pirate & Shrike have got it.
You are going to be so much not-so-clean laundry hung out to dry as soon as anything goes wrong. They will wash their hands of you.
I've been operating in many dodgy places as have lots of you. What I do now, and what makes my life a lot easier, is....I read it in the book, and what it says there I do.
If you try and juggle things here, bodge things there, 'make a plan' here and push things a bit there, where does it end? It ends up with you stressing yourself to death, if not killing yourself in the machine.
I operate according to the SOP's. If it's below minima I divert. If its overweight I offload. If it's broken I snag it. If it's a no-go item I don't go. Its as simple as that.
If the Ops manager has a problem with it he can take it up with the CAA or the CCMA. He will lose, sure as shooting.
Safety is paramount. This means I will not stick pig-headedly to my guns to ground the aircraft if the emergency floor lighting isn't working and that means the crew has to spend the night on the apron in Baghdad or the excitable African operator is threatening to jail us all. It doesn't mean I am rigidly blinkered, it means if I do ever depart from the rules I will easily be able to justify it to the reasonable man.
It's also about precedents. Don't set a precedent as a guy who will stretch things. In my company there are still one or two absolute cowboys. They now do any cowboy work required. Its their ass, licence, family's income on the line. Me? I do things the right way and they know that. They don't even ask questions any more and you know what? Most of my colleagues have adopted this attitude and our company is a better place for it. The result is a better quality operation and the clients can see that.
Make no mistake, I have been made to fly against the law at gunpoint twice, and in my earlier days have had to get into strips in horrible conditions with no navaids and nearly no fuel, but I learned every time, thought about what I would do to avoid that the next time and now that hasn't happened for a long time. Things might go wrong in the future, too, you can't rule that out; but I will learn from them if I am able.
Stress free is to work to the rules which were developed by studying other people's deaths.
Don't re-walk their fatal paths.
You are going to be so much not-so-clean laundry hung out to dry as soon as anything goes wrong. They will wash their hands of you.
I've been operating in many dodgy places as have lots of you. What I do now, and what makes my life a lot easier, is....I read it in the book, and what it says there I do.
If you try and juggle things here, bodge things there, 'make a plan' here and push things a bit there, where does it end? It ends up with you stressing yourself to death, if not killing yourself in the machine.
I operate according to the SOP's. If it's below minima I divert. If its overweight I offload. If it's broken I snag it. If it's a no-go item I don't go. Its as simple as that.
If the Ops manager has a problem with it he can take it up with the CAA or the CCMA. He will lose, sure as shooting.
Safety is paramount. This means I will not stick pig-headedly to my guns to ground the aircraft if the emergency floor lighting isn't working and that means the crew has to spend the night on the apron in Baghdad or the excitable African operator is threatening to jail us all. It doesn't mean I am rigidly blinkered, it means if I do ever depart from the rules I will easily be able to justify it to the reasonable man.
It's also about precedents. Don't set a precedent as a guy who will stretch things. In my company there are still one or two absolute cowboys. They now do any cowboy work required. Its their ass, licence, family's income on the line. Me? I do things the right way and they know that. They don't even ask questions any more and you know what? Most of my colleagues have adopted this attitude and our company is a better place for it. The result is a better quality operation and the clients can see that.
Make no mistake, I have been made to fly against the law at gunpoint twice, and in my earlier days have had to get into strips in horrible conditions with no navaids and nearly no fuel, but I learned every time, thought about what I would do to avoid that the next time and now that hasn't happened for a long time. Things might go wrong in the future, too, you can't rule that out; but I will learn from them if I am able.
Stress free is to work to the rules which were developed by studying other people's deaths.
Don't re-walk their fatal paths.
Last edited by AfricanSkies; 27th Jan 2006 at 18:40.
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Precisely....
Clients tend to compare operators when it comes to giving contracts and quite often people are under a lot of pressure. DO NOT succumb to that pressure. If things go wahoonie shaped, the only person who will be blamed is you and you'll get no thanks from the operator for dangling your life, licence and livelihood over the dustbin.
Clients tend to compare operators when it comes to giving contracts and quite often people are under a lot of pressure. DO NOT succumb to that pressure. If things go wahoonie shaped, the only person who will be blamed is you and you'll get no thanks from the operator for dangling your life, licence and livelihood over the dustbin.
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South Coast
Example. Algerian desert middle of summer (you should be able to appreciate). Prop de-icing goes on the blink. You check the MEL and see that it is an MEL item, category C. No required for despath = 0 with condition that you do not fly into known icing condtions (unlikely since OAT = 50 deg). You have 10 days to have the defect fixed otherwise aircraft is technically illegal. The spare parts have to be brought up from SA and will probably take 2 weeks min to clear customs.
Do you
a. Write the defect in the folio and ground the aircraft after 10 days.
b. Not write the item in the folio, advise the engineers of the defect and contine to fly.
I agree 100 percent with what has said above, however sometimes I think a bit of discretion needs to be used. Then again make sure all the records are legal because we all know who will take the can if the proverbial hits the fan.
I know of a certain airline is SA that makes a habit of swapping kit between aircraft to keep things 'legal' in terms of the MEL requirements.
Example. Algerian desert middle of summer (you should be able to appreciate). Prop de-icing goes on the blink. You check the MEL and see that it is an MEL item, category C. No required for despath = 0 with condition that you do not fly into known icing condtions (unlikely since OAT = 50 deg). You have 10 days to have the defect fixed otherwise aircraft is technically illegal. The spare parts have to be brought up from SA and will probably take 2 weeks min to clear customs.
Do you
a. Write the defect in the folio and ground the aircraft after 10 days.
b. Not write the item in the folio, advise the engineers of the defect and contine to fly.
I agree 100 percent with what has said above, however sometimes I think a bit of discretion needs to be used. Then again make sure all the records are legal because we all know who will take the can if the proverbial hits the fan.
I know of a certain airline is SA that makes a habit of swapping kit between aircraft to keep things 'legal' in terms of the MEL requirements.