P2 on the C208. What's that?
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P2 on the C208. What's that?
I overheard some, up and coming pilots, discussing how and where they log there P2 hours on the C208 Caravan. It seems they log these P2 hours as PIC in their log books! Is this legal?
Can anyone shed some light on this topic as to why it’s permited.
Can anyone shed some light on this topic as to why it’s permited.
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Hello Oom
Here is how it is supposed to be log according to the CAA
If you are a copilot on the 208, flying in the right hand seat, you are allowed to log those hours as "single engine co-pilot" time. All these hours count towards your total time, but only half of it, towards a higher license (ATPL).
Co-Pilot flying in the left hand seat, may log it as P1 and everything counts towards the higher license.
Captain may log all the hours as P1, regardless where he sits and if two captains fly together, both may log command time.
I now that some airline companies does not accept the P2 time on a 208
Hope this answers your question
Here is how it is supposed to be log according to the CAA
If you are a copilot on the 208, flying in the right hand seat, you are allowed to log those hours as "single engine co-pilot" time. All these hours count towards your total time, but only half of it, towards a higher license (ATPL).
Co-Pilot flying in the left hand seat, may log it as P1 and everything counts towards the higher license.
Captain may log all the hours as P1, regardless where he sits and if two captains fly together, both may log command time.
I now that some airline companies does not accept the P2 time on a 208
Hope this answers your question
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As far as I understand there is no P2 rating on C208, as it is single pilot certified. This mean even with a fresh rating you are a "Captain "on the C208.
Don't log hours in the right hand seat. Remember, the airlines at interview would like to see you perform in accordance with your hours logged. Rather under log and perform like a higher time pilot, then arriving with a logbook that you cannot back up in the sim.... Just my advice
Don't log hours in the right hand seat. Remember, the airlines at interview would like to see you perform in accordance with your hours logged. Rather under log and perform like a higher time pilot, then arriving with a logbook that you cannot back up in the sim.... Just my advice
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When enquiring about this very issue to the SACAA, I was told that you could log the P2 hours, if your companies operational manual require a two crew operation on the type. However, you may only use half of the hours to your higher license.
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Hey All,
I can confirm what Tango24 just said:
If company requies 2 man crew on C208, right hand seat pilot can log P2 hours but only 50% count towards ATPL.
Cheers
ZS-NDV
I can confirm what Tango24 just said:
If company requies 2 man crew on C208, right hand seat pilot can log P2 hours but only 50% count towards ATPL.
Cheers
ZS-NDV
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Beta, your'e right, no P2 rating on the 208, but obviosly, no company will let a fresh 200 hour pilot fly as a captain on it.
Same goes for the BE20 an B190 that both are certified as a single crew ops.
Again one of those grey areas in SA Aviation, just the same as the B190 which is clocking in at 16500 lbs, but only requires 2 comm pilots to operate it. I mean, doesn't the law state that above 5700kgs an ATP is necessary to operate the a/c?! Also agree with those guys that say not to log those hours on the 208, even if the CAA says you can, at the end it is not the CAA that's going to give you a job as an airline pilot
Same goes for the BE20 an B190 that both are certified as a single crew ops.
Again one of those grey areas in SA Aviation, just the same as the B190 which is clocking in at 16500 lbs, but only requires 2 comm pilots to operate it. I mean, doesn't the law state that above 5700kgs an ATP is necessary to operate the a/c?! Also agree with those guys that say not to log those hours on the 208, even if the CAA says you can, at the end it is not the CAA that's going to give you a job as an airline pilot
Last edited by mach decimal 83; 23rd Sep 2005 at 21:04.
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If I am a P2 on a 747 lets say, I log P2 in a column in my log book that accommodates it. Nothing changes as far as my PIC hours are concerned. Seems unethical to me then, that a pilot on an aircraft certified for one crew doesn’t increase his P2 time but rather his P1. My company regulations have nothing to do with that legal document, called a logbook.
No guys, stop. You are cheating.
No guys, stop. You are cheating.
Gatvol
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Anything greater than 5,700 kgs (12,500lbs) = ATP requirement. Call me a nitpicker.
Whats with this ATP surge all of a sudden. Commercial IFR does the same thing.........OK, you took a test and paid the CAA more..
I fly next to ATPs everyday and dont notice anything more special about them. Let me know so I can beg some more Beer as a lowly comm guy.. Ha Ha
Splain yourself Brother.........
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Majority of the operations and contracts these days require two crew...even on the van. If you're a 200 comm pilot who's in the pickle...congrats, you've got you're foot in the door with a job but never forget about your long term goal.....
P2 hours on a van have no real value when looking for a better job...but keep logging them..even at the back...so in the next year or so you can go to your company and see if you can step up to the 200's or 1900's.
Rather start out with a P1 rating...fly 50hrs U/S then leg for leg, if your company allows it.
"just my 2 cents advice for the 200hr P2 guys"
P2 hours on a van have no real value when looking for a better job...but keep logging them..even at the back...so in the next year or so you can go to your company and see if you can step up to the 200's or 1900's.
Rather start out with a P1 rating...fly 50hrs U/S then leg for leg, if your company allows it.
"just my 2 cents advice for the 200hr P2 guys"
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The SACAA does recognise comm pilots flying as P2 on a Van. In fact my initial rating was a P2 rating and endorsed as such in my licence.
The fact that CAA issue P2 ratings on Caravans means that they cannot get upset if one logs it in their logbooks as single engine copilot...
The fact that CAA issue P2 ratings on Caravans means that they cannot get upset if one logs it in their logbooks as single engine copilot...
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This question is a perennial. Is it too much to expect of the CAA that they publish an AIC to resolve the situation once and for all??
Interesting to note that there is no column in standard logbooks for S/E copilot but the SAAF logbooks do.
My solution was to indicate clearly which 208 hours were as a P2 and then not include the hours in my total. I recorded the P2 hours but didn't log them.
Interesting to note that there is no column in standard logbooks for S/E copilot but the SAAF logbooks do.
My solution was to indicate clearly which 208 hours were as a P2 and then not include the hours in my total. I recorded the P2 hours but didn't log them.
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I believe (and correct me if I am wrong) that the whole P2 on the 208 came about when there were lots of 208's on UN contracts and the UN stipulated that all UN aircraft must have 2 crew.
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2P UN
Komba..correct, all UN contracts require 2 crew on C208'S.
Is it not just easier to use a FAA/JAR logbook with columns available for SE P2 and ME P1 U/S???
Get a Jepp logbook in the beginning and save yourself from the headaches?
Is it not just easier to use a FAA/JAR logbook with columns available for SE P2 and ME P1 U/S???
Get a Jepp logbook in the beginning and save yourself from the headaches?
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But there is NO single engine P2 column in civilian logbooks. How do you log it. If you're not P1, don't log it. Someone said it earlier, that's cheating....